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You live and learn, then die and forget it all...
What is the benefit of knowledge? Humans covet knowledge, we spend all our lives seeking it, we question it, we want to understand it, but why? Does knowledge bring real benefit, or is it just a distraction, a way to pass the time?
If you think that knowledge brings value, how do you separate 'good' knowledge, and that which is valueless?
Good question.
Humankind is curious by nature - because of a highly developed brain, it seems. So most people take it for granted that knowledge is a good thing.
What if human knowledge had not increased over the millennia? We would probably still live in caves (if we had the knowledge how to use them), there would be no dentists and I would probably be toothless - if I had survived at all (people did not get older than 30 on average at that time). There wouldn't be lots of things we cherish today.
But on the other hand there would be no guns and bombs, no car/plane crashes, no lawyers (:D ) and so forth.
So take your choice. :D
In psychotherapy they have some assumptions about knowledge, or information. They say the more information you have, the more likely you are to make decisions conducive to growth, but another factor you have to consider is if the information has been correctly 'programmed.' I forget exactly what that means but I think it has to do with receiving conflicting messages, but it also has to do with how you look at the world, how you yourself have been programmed. For instance, if you were told you "could never do anything," or were "helpless." Those statements are exaggerations at best, but in reality very defeating and hurtful.
So that's one stance, but that's more from an individual's point of view, about one's own life.
Technology and science, for instance, bring medicine which is generally beneficial, but also weapon technology which is usually destructive.
I think knowledge if it is true knowledge is usually a good thing, unless we have ill intentions.
Also, humans have an amazing ability for pattern-recognizing and assimilating, so while knowledge is a way to pass the time, it also gives us intuition. And it can make us smarter, since we use our learning ability, exercise our minds, our critical thinking and memory. In chess for instance, many grandmasters hold memorizing games to be the best way to improve one's ability at the game, as well as knowledge and understanding. Just repeating the games until you can do so without the game score- this has an interesting way of increasing skill.
Not really. You pass on these on to your offspring. So that they may survive better and pass on their genes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
Sheer curiosity.Quote:
What is the benefit of knowledge? Humans covet knowledge, we spend all our lives seeking it, we question it, we want to understand it, but why?
Art is useless!! There is no value in it. So why create it? Because we admire it.
Yes. Allows you to survive and pass on your genes to your offspring.Quote:
Does knowledge bring real benefit, or is it just a distraction, a way to pass the time?
There is no good knowledge and bad knowledge. But anything that allows you and the species to survive can be a "good" knowledge.Quote:
If you think that knowledge brings value, how do you separate 'good' knowledge, and that which is valueless?
Only if you have offspring....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Interesting point - is art useless? There was a time when I'd have agreed with you but now I wonder - didn't writing evolve from art? Letters are a pictoral representation of a concept, what about numbers, mathematics, geometry, TV?!!!!Quote:
Sheer curiosity.
Art is useless!! There is no value in it. So why create it? Because we admire it.
So, knowing who got kicked out of Big Brother could be 'good' knowledge?Quote:
There is no good knowledge and bad knowledge. But anything that allows you and the species to survive can be a "good" knowledge.
Interesting point, but is it 'knowledge' that has increased, or understanding? I don't know how radio's work (but I'm working on it) but I understand what radio is for, how to use it, and how to benefit from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by barbara0207
[QUOTE=TheFifthElement;430834]Only if you have offspring....
Then you have decided that you knowledge is not worth passing on to your offspring.
Art is useless in the terms that it has no survival value for the species. Only human species produces art and the rest of the species on this planet survive quite well without art.Quote:
Interesting point - is art useless? There was a time when I'd have agreed with you but now I wonder - didn't writing evolve from art? Letters are a pictoral representation of a concept, what about numbers, mathematics, geometry, TV?!!!!
That would be useless knowledge ;-) like people who collect pictures of pylons :DQuote:
So, knowing who got kicked out of Big Brother could be 'good' knowledge?
Ooh, interesting point. This brings me back to the original question of what is 'good' knowledge, and what is valueless/useless knowledge. If survival is the answer to this then much of what we 'know' is useless, as we can survive on instinct alone. Whether we would flourish is a different question. If you think about it, technology is not required for survival, it just makes the odds a bit better. Taking your point, the rest of the species on the planet survive quite well without medicine, so knowledge of medicine is useless too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
How do you know about my photo collection?..... (I love pylons!)Quote:
That would be useless knowledge ;-) like people who collect pictures of pylons :D
Great point there, that is just what I wanted to point out to lote-tree. And another thing, I am of the opinion that art is not useless, on the contrary art can be quite enlightening for people who have understanding of it. I recently read Plato's "Republic" and he also insisted that art is very useless, but his arguments were really odd. I would dare to say that he did not understand art, at least not the way most people do. So as I said, art can give knowledge to some people as same as philosophy. Though art can never compare to philosophy(in my opinion) in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
And to answer you question - people gain knowledge for two reasons: To feed their curiosity and to gain practical benefit from it. So "good" knowledge is everything that you learn and that can also help you to become a "better" person(I know it sounds childish, but keep in mind that every person has to find what is it that makes them better persons). So you gain knowledge primary to find out what is it that pleases you, what is your call in life and secondary (when u find the first thing) to pursue those things.
I entirely agree with you. Art started with cave paintings, and reflects mans desire to communicate with man. What started as cave painting evolved into letters, and written forms of communication, which have vastly enhanced our ability to understand each other. Art, in its various forms, is communication, and communication is not useless (except in pubs, when perhaps cave paintings is about the highest level of skill that can be expected?!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlo
I like this concept because this indicates that the value of any knowledge is subjective, that it is a valuable as the person acquiring it believes it to be.Quote:
And to answer you question - people gain knowledge for two reasons: To feed their curiosity and to gain practical benefit from it. So "good" knowledge is everything that you learn and that can also help you to become a "better" person(I know it sounds childish, but keep in mind that every person has to find what is it that makes them better persons). So you gain knowledge primary to find out what is it that pleases you, what is your call in life and secondary (when u find the first thing) to pursue those things.
A good knowledge is anything that allows an individual or the species some survival value.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
But we have become masters of surviving so we can accumulate a lot of useless knowledge :DQuote:
If survival is the answer to this then much of what we 'know' is useless, as we can survive on instinct alone.
That's it! Yes it makes the odd little better. Spear bringing down a Woolly mamoth which is better than a pick-axe.Quote:
If you think about it, technology is not required for survival, it just makes the odds a bit better.
Some species produces their own medicine. Anti-venom for instance.Quote:
Taking your point, the rest of the species on the planet survive quite well without medicine, so knowledge of medicine is useless too?
[/quote]Quote:
How do you know about my photo collection?..... (I love pylons!)
I am sure you do :D
In order to understand what the benefit is of A for B we need to understand what B is, and thereby what sorts of things would benefit it.
If we start from a position that human beings are solely material organisms with no qualitative difference from any other animals, then Lote-Tree's position follows.
If, on the other hand, it means something qualitatively different to lead a human life, then his answer is at minimum insufficient.
This is an interesting question, and of course harrowing too, and as a matter of fact what we call knowledge fades away at the end of the day, and of course meaninglessly, and no knowledge remains.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
This is a cliche doubt,it's simply that we want to compete in our lives with one another.If you are stupid,then others will look down smugly at you.If you are intelligent,ironically you will be praised.This thing makes people envious and it is patent in today.This is the fundamental one.
Next,your doubt 'how to separate 'good' knowledge and which another is valueless?' needs me to cite that no one can be OMNISCIENT.Teaching is the remedy.Being a basic person is also the one,and by having faith in God.When we don't have good knowledge doesn't mean we sinned.God can forgive.
In fact at times ignorance is bliss, and if you are ignorant, and do not care about your future you are certainly happier than those who take too many cares.
The richer you become or the more you are intelligent the unhappier you are. If you are rich you take too much care about your wealth and if you are intellectual you fear at times lest your level of.HTML Code:intellectuality will go down
So when you are burdened with something they heavily on you, and you are not free.
You can tell the rest that with money and intelligence you are smarter and happier but you know better whether you are really burdened with all these substances or you are free.
Therefore, both money and knowledge can not give you freedom.
Yes, but they do allow you to accessorize your chains imaginatively. And if we are barred from knowledge of reality there really isn't much left then besides that.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
Knowledge is nothing but a fetter on us. Ignorance is bliss many a time.
I think the acquisition of knowledge is one of the few things, thus far, which separates humanity from other species, at least, in the progressive sense. Animals learn, but apparently cannot progressively build on that towards advancing, probably due to design. *We* became bipedal and developed a thumb, and stole from avian brains, apparently, to develop speech. Sometimes the mere biological odds stun me in amazement--however, bipedalism, opposable thumbs, a voice box and a large brain make the advancement of knowledge possible, even as generations die off for the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
I think you have to define "valueless", because you cannot know that Yahweh parted the Red Sea. You either believe Yahweh parted the Red Sea or think the biblical writers were waiting for Charlton Heston.:D Knowing your birth date may be less important than knowing how to contact police, but neither fact is valueless.Quote:
If you think that knowledge brings value, how do you separate 'good' knowledge, and that which is valueless?
Knowledge gives peace and liberation.
In what way? I know how to get published for money now much better than I did when I was 24, but when I was 24 I was vastly happier than I am today. Religious teachings and persistent study of them is not necessarily knowledge acquisition, and you might consider not confusing knowledge with your new age sentiments.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
No. Of course it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
I would never say something like that and I don't take the topic so lightly as to brush it off-- everyone has their own opinion, and I try to respect those. The sharing of ideas on a forum such as this has such positive potential, and it shouldn't be used for anything else. I come to share my ideas, not to tell anyone that they are wrong, or that they are barred from knowledge because they don't think what I think.
I would aver that we should study all things of interest, the physical sciences as well as the mental; art, literature, philosophy, so many subjects to learn parts of the working world.
One person developed calculus, and then later they discovered it to perfectly accurately describe the way the world works, and they used it as a mathematic tool, since it was correct and not wrong or incomplete. I believe there are also laws that have to do with spiritual worlds. Many others believe things like this also, as well as many disagree. Hopefully the channels for communication will stay open for this.
When I say knowledge is liberating, I mean knowledge of the self. It is something that is cultivated over many years, and we never stop learning. We learn from our parents, our teachers, and our peers. We learn from example, from words, actions, and from teachings in books, as well as from our television and other media. Knowledge of the self is something the Buddhists call enlightenment, the Hindus call liberation, the Christians call salvation.
It is just peace, Jozanny, I do not mean anything more than that. I am not making a commentary on morality, I'm only giving my own ideas.
Knowledge of anything takes you downward spiritually. Spirituality has little to do with knowledge and often times people mistakenly liken Gyana, a Sanskrit word to knowledge he misconstrues it.
Knowledge tangles you with worldly propensities and Gyana disentangles clear all the tangles wrapping you up.
Knowledge simply makes people envious and foolhardy to attain it.Fundamental ones would do.And blazeofglory's reply seems to be meaningful.
Knowledge leads to more confusion.
Good knowledge is like a candle which is lighting your way. You can find it in any thing you have a strong desire to learn it but pay attention!! Not any a strong desire for learning some thing is good knowledge.
As for me, I put one goal in my life an i consider it good knowledge. I did my best to learn one thing, but all my efforts haven't any benefits. So, until now I am fighting to gain it.
TheFifthElement
thanks for this unique thread (*_*)
What you say is true in a temporal sense, but not in an absolute sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
Who exists? Of all that do, what percentage have some kind of knowledge?
Now first of all-- this is not just all intelligent life-- of all matter, a very small percentage of it is alive at all.
If you knew how you unique you were in the universe, then you would get a grasp of how much you actually know.
Everyone knows so much, they know already anything they could ever know.
For instance, states of consciousness. We think there are states we do not know, but they are actually within us already. Why? Because we only see or know anything through forms that are already in us.
So in general; we have knowledge of this, knowledge of facts, music, sports, life, people, behaviors, science, books, art, so on and so forth; and we also experience some state of consciousness. Our consciousness is both physical and mental, and-- spiritual? Anyway depending on what state of consciousness we cultivate and experience and progress, that is what all the forms in our life that we know, are. If we cultivate such a negative consciousness, then all we know will be like this. Of course no one is only negative or only positive-- and those are oversimplifications perhaps. But depending on whatever consciousenss we have, that is what we are feeling. If a person is feeling upset, angry, peaceful, happy; I hate to even through the words out there becuase everything we experience affects us in some small way. In a large degree, the way something affects us is not nearly as much as the difference of what we feel which we create. This is why cold or rain or heat or anything creates different preferences in different people. We simply enjoy a certain weather or temperature because we always have. And of course if your consciousness is peaceful, that's when you actually start to experience peace; which is only the beginning, only the beginning.
Precisely,it makes sense herein.Quote:
Originally Posted by novlist*star*
I seriously doubt "people are inquisitive by nature", only a few people are. Most like to think with little effort, up to a point, then stop. Never really pushing.
Knowledge is inversely proportional to hapiness. One becomes a slave of knowledge; it tortures you. But you must know more, the answers, because it eats at you. What if you just ignored the questions? Ignorance is bliss indeed. I often wish I didn't know half the things I do, I would be so much happier. Now that I do, all I want is more knowledge.
You separate what is good knowledge from that which is valueless according to its use. Im trying to say here that it is relative. Of course you take in ideas and retain it to yourself if you see it as a good knowledge. Anyway, what do you mean by good here? are you viewing it pragmatically?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
I could not comment on this as I am not sure if we really lose everything when we die.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
i could'nt agree more...Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
However, to have no knowledge at all is not my option so I'd rather have knowledge. Ignorance sometimes is a bliss but we wouldn't want our lives to be spontaneous as ignorance forever.
This makes me agree with Camus that life is absurd.
Thats why terror attacks such as 9/11 occurred;) Knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
I would disagree and say those came from ignorance, such as ignorance of the value of life, or the way to deal with problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by kristian
I consider true knowledge to be knowledge of the self. It's like self-attainment, or a peaceful consciousnes. Ignorance is when we falsely identify either with our body or our desires, also our false ego. Coming out of ignorance is like coming out of the darkness.
that was their knowledge sprung from what is being taught to them. the teachings and ideas that are being imposed to them by whoever it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
I see some touch of Kant and Plato here, :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
On the knowledge of the self, i think its more of a realization.
Knowledge accumulation must come together with wisdom.
From Confucius:
The essence of knowledge is, having it, to apply it; not having it, to confess your ignorance.
Even when walking in the company of two other men, I am bound to be able to learn from them. The good points of the one I copy; the bad points of the other I correct in myself.