Is our fate predetermined or do the choices we make choose our fate? If fate is predetermined then what is the point in sweating over those difficult life choices?
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Is our fate predetermined or do the choices we make choose our fate? If fate is predetermined then what is the point in sweating over those difficult life choices?
I don't know. the degree of free will that we have decreases with each choice we make. I don't feel free. perhaps I'm not in control of my own life? if I was, I'd either be playing video games or f-ucking, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, never growing tired . . . but unfortunately that's just a daydream and a waste of time.
So Lara, do you think it'd be better than if people just laying around in the floor doing nothing and wait for the angel of death to come?
angel of what? c'mon, you don't actually believe in all that crazy mother goose bullsh-it, do you?
aw, what a bummer.
Shut up tart..I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about (other)people
You and your attitude
ha ha ha.
I meant you're not a christian, are you?
and how do you figure?
you sound like the preacher man talkin all that angel o' death nonsense.
Now now, truth is a relative thing you know
that jesus will come swooping down on a giant cigar shaped ufo brand flying saucer . . .
ha ha ha.
ric-ockulous.
So be it. I don't see any harm in it..
Subterranean,
Absolutely not. Making choices is one of the beauties in life. Personally, I believe the choices we make determine our path, but sometimes I wonder, because sometimes the choices seem so obvious, were we to choose different, what would happen?
Anyway, I was just trying to start an interesting conversation. So what are your views on the subject?
If you ask me then my answer is yes. I do believe in fate. I wish I don't but things around me or things that I've experienced made me to. I could perhaps made a very long "things to do list" in my life, which I arrange so perfectly. But suppose there's a crazy lad shot me on the head tomorrow...?!
I never believed that man is really free
One of the eternal questions. Personally, I believe that both of the options you mentioned are true. Destiny is indeed set upon us: eventually, we'll all grow old and die. Death is our destiny and we can't do anything to change it. However, we can make some important decisions along the way. Of course, this degree of liberty is limited, but all things in the universe are. The choices we make in life will surely determine the way in which your destiny unfolds. You can die alone, sorrounded by a wife, kids and all that things, leave some sort of legacy or not, having enjoyed the ride, etc. One way or another, nothing can take that away from you.Quote:
Originally posted by Lara
Is our fate predetermined or do the choices we make choose our fate? If fate is predetermined then what is the point in sweating over those difficult life choices?
LOL. I've had that fantasy before, but believe me, you DO get tired of it at the end. The fantasy lies in that you believe that you won't.Quote:
Originally posted by star blue
I don't know. I don't feel free. perhaps I'm not in control of my own life? if I was, I'd either be playing video games or f-ucking, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, never growing tired . . . but unfortunately that's just a daydream and a waste of time.
It doesn't really matter. Why waste time thinking about it? I would rather be thinking, of how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.
Fate is just the way I write off the bad things that happen in my life. Choice is the way I write off the good things. Guilt-free life. Not half bad. Fate? I don't think so. Even if there is something else in control of my life, if I really believed that, I'd feel inclined to klll myself. It's the illusion of freedom I live for, the little moments when I actually feel free. The fantasy and determination that pumps through my veins. If your life is predetermined, then what's the point of doing anything? Face it; you can never find the answer to this question-it lies in paradoxes and philosophy, and you just can't get it. So you might as well believe you control you're life, so you actually do something with it.
don't think; ask mr. owl.
I would like to clarify that there is a quote in Crisaor's post above, the second quote, is not mine, but that of someone else.
Lara
Ooops. Sorry, Lara, I apologise.:)
It's corrected now.
No problem Crisaor.
Thanks for the correction.
Take Care,
Lara
I believe in fate. God is all knowing so he knows what choices we are making and I believe that he can shape them to a certain extent, I thought once that I would take my life, but haven't, and I atribute that to some one else Driving the car of life, I am merely a passenger, Someone watching a film for the first time, not knowing whats going to happen next but knowing that I have no personall controll over it. Everything happens for a reason, even if we don't understand this reason yet.
I mat sound like a wakko, but that is how I feel.
Fate doesn't have to be a bad thing, it just means that we don't have direct controle over how our life goes, I think that concept frightens people and makes them scoff at the idea because they would rather not believe in a greater power... star person...
what is it exactly that you're disagreeing with me on, stanislaw? I don't believe in god, on the one hand, but on the other, I don't believe in free will. it seems like we share some common ground, at least.
i tend to lean towards fayefaye. might i compliment you on your way of thinking. should we deside to believe in God, or the Son of God, or any type of God for that matter, or should we deside to believe in the way of science, in that we are all of bio-carbon base beings that were developed through the massive explosion of the universe 8 billion years ago in which balls of helium and hydrogen cooled off enough to create a rock which is located in a perfected location, not to close or to far from the sun, to generate life in which we are able to comprehend at this time, is something i am sure we ask ourselves a few times in our life. being that i love to read, i have gone through the bible a few times, and i am not going to challenge anyone on what they should believe or what they shouldn't. but, for those who do have a faith, and believe in the Holy Trinity, i am to wonder, regaurdless of God knowing everything, if he plans our life out for us, are we not puppets? if we are puppets, what is the reason to our being. if we are not puppets, then why are we here? is it to be tested? if so what for?
sounds like you've already excluded protestants, psyco . . .
blue star, i love to read your thoughts and ideas. to answer your question, i try not to exclude anyone. i like to understand, and to understand, you must ask. if i ever think of a good protestian question, i will look for you.
don't worry about me, psyco, I'm no protestant.
You could say we are puppets, we may not know why we should exsist, but I believe an answer to this will be discovered.
And Star... Sorry if I was being rude, I was in a rather foul mood yesterday, I am sorry.
If you study "Macbeth" thinking purely about fate, you will never know if you believe in it or not again. That play, coupled with some revelations on Old Testament authors has nearly killed my faith in Christianity.
I wonder...why discussions such these tend to be related with Christianity..
Why's that? Macbeth's only a play, and if you consider yourself christian, you shouldn't care very much about the old testament anyway.Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
If you study "Macbeth" thinking purely about fate, you will never know if you believe in it or not again. That play, coupled with some revelations on Old Testament authors has nearly killed my faith in Christianity.
The questions about fate that the play poses are very real concerns, even if the play itself is a work of fiction.
And I'm not sure if I consider myself a Christian or not, but even if I do, the OT is very real and important. What I was talking about shaking my faith is the fact that the OT was written by PEOPLE, not God. Some of them were cool, but they all had specific agendas and biases. Oh well. Just somthing I've been thinking about.
People with divine inspiration, atleast that is what we are told. I was taught to pray for dissernment before reading the bible so that I might learn the true words of God.
I believe in fate, however it has nothing to do with believing in god or any religous idea whatesoever. Scientifically speaking we are in fact prisoners of a universe that is governed by rules. All the laws of physics prohibit us from actually making choices rather then just following a reaction.
It is like the idea of causality, action-reaction. We only react to the events around us and therfore are bound to our path with only the illusion of free will.
unless the only illusion is the illusion of free will . . .
then you're f.ucked.
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
The questions about fate that the play poses are very real concerns, even if the play itself is a work of fiction.
And I'm not sure if I consider myself a Christian or not, but even if I do, the OT is very real and important. What I was talking about shaking my faith is the fact that the OT was written by PEOPLE, not God. Some of them were cool, but they all had specific agendas and biases. Oh well. Just somthing I've been thinking about.
Well I don't know Kik, I think books in the New T were also written by people (I hope I'm not wrong in this one)..I mean all books in the bible were all written by ordinary people who were ispired by the Holy Spirit. At least, that's what they taught me in sunday school.
Yes but you'll notice that the NT authors have a MUCH different view on most issues than the OT. Some denomonations even do away with the OT all together and say that the NT directly contradicts the teachings of the OT. I don't neccasarily believe that, but the attitudes of the people of the NT are MUCH different. That much is impossible not to notice. Also, if you happen to not believe in the trinity, than whats the holy spirit doing? He's not there. Thats another one of my problems. I go no trinity (much to the chagrin of my christian friends and family) so for me, there was no holy spirit to take over the epostles writing hands, or Moses's hands for that matter. Damn, I hardly even remember where I started. Oh yeah.Quote:
Originally posted by subterranean
Well I don't know Kik, I think books in the New T were also written by people (I hope I'm not wrong in this one)..I mean all books in the bible were all written by ordinary people who were ispired by the Holy Spirit. At least, that's what they taught me in sunday school.
The OT writers sound psychotically zealous in some writings. Issueing out death warrents for eating meat on Friday, strikeing people dead for looking directly at the ark of the covonant, ect. If some of the things that they write can be so skewed to follow there agenda of control on the people of Isreal, what else was skewed?
I posted an account of 9/11 as it may have been written about by an OT author. I'll try to find it to add more clarity to what I'm trying to say
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
And in the first year of the reign of George Bush, son of George Bush, son of George Bush, it came to pass that his daughters were caught drinking underage. They were found to be, in thy mercy, the bearers of false identification cards. So The Lord, in his wrath, finding The United States to be evil in his sight, sent 3 fully fueled jets to be the harbingers of doom upon the major economic strongholds within thy realm.
See, it makes you wonder if the reasons that biblical authors gave for things happening were the real reasons that they happened. Thats what has been shaking my faith.