Is literature dead?

Back in the 19th century and earlier even commercial literature (Charles Dickens, Matthew Lewis) was good stuff. I believe this can be attributed to the fact that literacy was low in the less educated classes. As more and more became literate, literature dumbed was dumbed down; and look at it today: The only new books on the shelves are Stephen King, Danielle Steele, Jeffrey Deaver garbage. Every now and then there's some book like The Corrections that passes itself off as real literature, when it's actually just REALLY REALLY BAD wannabe-literary fiction that recycles cliches from films blatantly.

I may sound like an elitist, but it would be silly to say that the lower classes have the same opportunities to understand and appreciate literature given that they have less education and less time to read.

Sure there are still great writers like Russell Banks and Salman Rushdie but very few.

No I don't think literature is dead, but I think classic literature is underappreciated in contemporary society. All the GenXer's who read Douglas Coupland and Naomi Campbell's et al works feel the siren call for their generational angst, and in context it makes sense, our values have changed, people are more externally motivated now than they ever were.

I agree with your analysis though that the shelves are bogged down with pap these days. Hence why I only frequent used bookstores these days.

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Originally posted by den
No I don't think literature is dead, but I think classic literature is underappreciated in contemporary society.

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Ditto.

I completely agree that literature is underappreciated in today's society, but don't blame the lower classes! Danielle Steele can be baught as cheaply as Dante. I have met far more wealthy, far less educated people. And what's your definition of lower class anyway? Where do you draw the line?

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Originally posted by piquant
I completely agree that literature is underappreciated in today's society, but don't blame the lower classes! Danielle Steele can be baught as cheaply as Dante. I have met far more wealthy, far less educated people. And what's your definition of lower class anyway? Where do you draw the line?

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It's not directly about money; it's how the poorer people are the less education and free time they have. Appreciation of literature varies directly with those two factors and that's undeniable.

in the morden society, why people (not only lower class ) should spend dull hours in the same dark or complicated poem, novel? yes, it's not a good question, i admit, but it's a question which could not be ignored. does reading literture benefit human life?
if it truely benefits our life, how many people will have this benefit of literture?

People are constantly told that classic, or good literature is boring and for nerds, it is much better to read 600+ pages of gory thriller. I think that corperate buisness has ruined the world of literature. It is easy to produce gory thriller, inteligent literature on the other hand is hard to find. I wouldn't blame lower classes. I would blame the money hungry upper class.

The novel will never die because it is pure imagination - the modern world has many more distractions but ultimately the same ennui as earlier epochs.

People will always read jejune literature as surely as they will watch bad films or listen to crap music.

Panem et circenses.....

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Originally posted by stavrokin
Does reading literature benefit human life?

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Of course it does. Isn't that why we're here?

Yes, to those here, you do perceive the value in literature. You can be intoxicated with literature and heal the pain of reality. However, how many people could cure their ennui, ignorence, and hatred through medicine of literature?

on the other hand, if you and me, and all of the people who love literature, whose fascination could be remained for ever and inherited by the proper groups, seem to be irrational to blame others containing the money hungry upper class or lower classes.

it's conceited manner sometimes behind Literary sentiment.
Nothing will die as long as you keep going on.
But it is more important not to give up or blame others even if all of the rest is crazy for crap music .

I see your point, that lower-class people may be poorly educated, and have less time to read, but I question how it is these people who are responsible for the decline in the appreciation of classic literature. If anything, I blame the complacent middle class, who can easily afford good literature, and are relatively well-educated, but prefer to read crap. Someone who cannot afford to pay rent, or buy food, is most likely not buying books at all , so how they can be the source of the problem is confusing to me.

It is a question of supply and demand, and the middle class is demanding low quality books, the lower-class isn't demanding any at all, and as I know nothing if the upper-class I cannot say what they are demanding (although I have a sneaking suspicion that they read much the same books as the middle class).

The middle class is the largest class, and can we really be suprised that writers and publishers are willing to provide them with what they want?

Too many generalizations here. You know I'm a middle-class American and so are my friends, yet we all have the same disdain for tasteless literature. It goes without saying, you have to take the individual into account, not just class statistics.

On another note I think reading is too often confused with life experience. Classic literature is great and all, but at some point you need to get out see what is going on in the world around you. Personally, I've seen a lot of people who live their lives as if they're characters in some overly-dramatized novel. It's worse than watching Keanu Reeves try to act out a love scene. Literature is just escapist entertainment, another profound way to kill time. Most writers (good ones, anyway) are just people who can clearly observe what is going on around them, their senses deranged by harmony. Most writers watch TV, some even read comic books (Thomas Pynchon and Kurt Vonnegut, to name a few).

Literature is not a reason for living, life is. Now hurry up before you die.

Settled. It's not THE reason clearly, but why don't you consider it to be one of the reasons? I can hardly picture my life (or anybody else's in a situation similar to mine) without literature (or music, or movies, etc.).

From just listening to this conversation, it sounds like what is being said is that every novel written before about 1950 is genious, and every novel written since is complete rubbish. Thats rediculous. While I wasn't alive in the victorian era, I'm pretty sure that there were novelists other than Hardy, Dickens, Austin, and Bronte. The greats are the ones that are remembered. We have the luxury of time on our side. Over the last 100+ years people have sorted through literature and decided which novels are good and which are bad. But anything a victorian reader picked up was not going to be brilliant. Now that the middle and even lower classes are educated there are alot more writers than there were. Not everything is crap. 80 years later people arn't going to remember the names of the harlaquin romance novel writers. They will remember the greats of our era. Our problem is we are unwilling to sift through the crap thats being published to find these jems. I read comercial fiction and I have read some absolutely pathetic novels. But at the same time, I have read some great Authors who deal with universal themes. Authors that delve into philosophy, Authors that still publish nonfiction, Authors who read and respect literature. They do exist. Its just a matter of getting off your lazy asses and trying to find them.

It is truly hard to find a good book lately, everynow and then one comes by, but it takes a lot of work to find one.

If you want some great literature that's been published in the last 20 years, I suggest Umberto Eco. He has published both fiction and nonfiction. I havn't read his work yet, but most of the 3rd year students in my course (only a 3 year course) are fanatic about him. I respect these guys opinions alot. Here's what it has to say about him in 'About the Author' in Foucault's Pendulum :

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Umberto Eco has an international reputation as a philosopher, historian and literary critic. His first novel, The Name of the Rose, was a bestseller throughout the world. A professor at the University of Bologna, he lives in Milan.

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Has anyone read Eco? If you have, what do you think?

Hi, I'm a new creature on board :)

I live in country where many of the great classics are not so familiar and popular, and I suppose all of you were reffering to the condition in the States or other English speaking countries.

But one thing that I surely think about the classics is that some of them are very hard to understand (the language) and it took alot of efforts for me to understand them, since my native language is not English. But I love them

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
Has anyone read Eco? If you have, what do you think?

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I have. He rules. The Name of the Rose is awesome, you should read it ASAP if you haven't already. Foucault's Pendulum is his second novel, very inferior to the name..., but it's still good. As a semiologist, he's written several essay books on a lot of subjects. Maybe you should check those out. Some are really interesting.

Sweet I will as soon as I can.

Subterranean, where are you from and what classics are you talking about?
PS. I love your Avatar! (I'm one of those few who DOESN'T think Radiohead has sold out.

Although there has been a decline in the production of quality fiction in the past few decades, I must agree with IWillKikU; just pick of a copy of The Strand before Arthur Conan Doyle was given his monthly slot, the magazine was rafe with "600+ page" rubbish. It was perhaps more populous then, in an age without television, than now. In the end, Danielle Steele writes crap, and shall be remembered as thus; Eco, however, shall be remembered differently.

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
Subterranean, where are you from and what classics are you talking about?

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Such as Poe's. Im from Indonesia

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PS. I love your Avatar! (I'm one of those few who DOESN'T think Radiohead has sold out.

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Yes, indeed

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
Sweet I will as soon as I can.

Subterranean, where are you from and what classics are you talking about?
PS. I love your Avatar! (I'm one of those few who DOESN'T think Radiohead has sold out.

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Hate to disappoint you Britboy, but here in the colonies (i.e. the US) it's very trendy and "cool" to like Radiohead's new pretentious albums. As for myself, I think Radiohead peaked with The Bends.

Uh oh . . . here it comes.

Then it shall come ;) . Radiohead peaked with OK Computer. Everyone knows that. It's a scientific fact (if you believe in such things).:)

mmm.... science.... ewww.... radiohead.... ah, well to each his/her own.

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
Has anyone read Eco? If you have, what do you think?

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I've just finished reading "The name of the rose" about 30 minutes ago. It's an absolutely amazing book! I really recommend it to everyone... It's just so complex... I'm still trying to figure out a lot of its meanings!

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Originally posted by Robert E Lee
Hate to disappoint you Britboy, but here in the colonies (i.e. the US) it's very trendy and "cool" to like Radiohead's new pretentious albums. As for myself, I think Radiohead peaked with The Bends.

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Britboy!!! HA! I hate to twist your gibblets, son, but I'm a Virginia boy from the good ol' US of A! I liked Radiohead as an American. If ya want to take a gander at my Location, it says Newbold College, UK. College. Boarding college! I'm a southern countryboy from the heart of big game huntin', tobbaca chawin', big truck drivin', flanell shirt wearin', riproarin', redneck America! YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAA!!!!! And even through my thick southern skull, I can still reckon that Radiohead peaked with OK computer. Everyone knows that, old Hoss! And yes it is trendy and "cool" to like Radioheads new albums. I'll admit that, but thinkin' back to '97 I'm seemin' to 'member all kinds a them music magazines that the kids are all readin' and tearin' out them posters and stickin' em up on yonder walls, well I seems to 'member em going Radiohead bonkers! Every magazine I read that had a 'top 10 albums of the '90s' list had OK Computer right there on it! And have you noticed, even today, how much airplay 'Creep' gets compared to songs off of 'Hail to the Thief'? I don't see what has changed, other than they've pushed the envelope as far as expirimental music goes. They refused to write the same album over and over and over like some other brit-pop bands (oasis! God they suck!). People who LOOOOOVED the bends, and wanted more of the bends are obviously going to accuse Radiohead of selling out cause they aren't writing any more Bends!!!! Get over it!

Thats all I have to say about that.

For more interesting posts on the subject of Radiohead's commercialization, see thread, 'Radiohead and 1984' by IWilKikU in the George Orwell forum.

God, give me pretentious Radiohead over bloody Coldplay any day.

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
They refused to write the same album over and over and over like some other brit-pop bands (oasis! God they suck!).

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Originally posted by Dick Diver
God, give me pretentious Radiohead over bloody Coldplay any day.

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Careful, watch it you two. ;)

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
Britboy!!! HA! I hate to twist your gibblets, son, but I'm a Virginia boy from the good ol' US of A! I liked Radiohead as an American. If ya want to take a gander at my Location, it says Newbold College, UK. College. Boarding college! I'm a southern countryboy from the heart of big game huntin', tobbaca chawin', big truck drivin', flanell shirt wearin', riproarin', redneck America! YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAA!!!!! And even through my thick southern skull, I can still reckon that Radiohead peaked with OK computer. Everyone knows that, old Hoss! And yes it is trendy and "cool" to like Radioheads new albums. I'll admit that, but thinkin' back to '97 I'm seemin' to 'member all kinds a them music magazines that the kids are all readin' and tearin' out them posters and stickin' em up on yonder walls, well I seems to 'member em going Radiohead bonkers! Every magazine I read that had a 'top 10 albums of the '90s' list had OK Computer right there on it! And have you noticed, even today, how much airplay 'Creep' gets compared to songs off of 'Hail to the Thief'? I don't see what has changed, other than they've pushed the envelope as far as expirimental music goes. They refused to write the same album over and over and over like some other brit-pop bands (oasis! God they suck!). People who LOOOOOVED the bends, and wanted more of the bends are obviously going to accuse Radiohead of selling out cause they aren't writing any more Bends!!!! Get over it!

Thats all I have to say about that.

For more interesting posts on the subject of Radiohead's commercialization, see thread, 'Radiohead and 1984' by IWilKikU in the George Orwell forum.

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'

Creep is from Pablo Honey, which is a pretty bad album.

Oasis rocks. Get over it.

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God, give me pretentious Radiohead over bloody Coldplay any day.

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I hate Coldplay so damn much. The singer moans like a ***** having an orgasm on Clocks, and it sounds so pathetic that I cringe whenever I hear it. Effete music at it's worst.

We never meant to cause you trouble.

Said Ab and went in search for someone else to cause troubles to ;) :D

ouw, i noticed that there have been some interesting posts about radiohead going on in this thread (which should not belong here)..

Thank's to my avatar!!
(i wonder why..)

If I didn't know any better, I'd say Robert E Lee had a crush on me.

EwWwWwWwWw . . . Weeeeird.

re: Weeeeird
I'm glad you noticed (heeheehee)

LOL :D:D:D

Sorry to hijack this thread to Radioheadland. I just like Sub's avatar.

I like 2 or 3 Radiohead songs (I'd like a few more if I liked the way he sings but I really DON'T- I could say it in a much more unpolite way but there are some fans here and I tend to respect them as I respect this band, despite my opinion).

I detest Coldplay in every possible way.

I didn't know Umberto Eco was that popular, most people here fall asleep only at the mention of 'the name of the rose'...I've mostly heard that it's quite boring and if someone claism he read it all he gets a lot of respect like he was super-clever. I'm also told it has lots of parts in Latin or kinda Latin.

I'm not going to discuss whether literature is dead or not, cos it's that kind of philosphical question I wouldn't enjoy discussing and I wouldn't get anything out of it.

Amen.

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Originally posted by Robert E Lee
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Creep is from Pablo Honey, which is a pretty bad album.
Oasis rocks. Get over it.

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YEP.

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Originally posted by Robert E Lee
We never meant to cause you trouble.

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LOL. :D