Is Nick gay (or bisexual)?

Is Nick Carraway, the narrator, gay (or bisexual)? In chapter 2, he goes down the elevator with Mr McKee:

'Come to lunch some day,' he suggested, as we groaned down the elevator.
'Where?'
'Anywhere.'
'Keep your hands off the lever,' snapped the elevator boy.
'I beg your pardon,' said Mr McKee with dignity, 'I didn't know I was touching it.'
'All right,' I agreed, 'I'll be glad to.'
...I was standing beside his bed and he was sitting up between the sheets, clad in his underwear, with a great portfolio in his hands.
'Beauty and the Beast...Loneliness...Old Grocery Horse...Brook'n Bridge...'
Then I was lying half asleep in the lower level of the Pennsylvania Station, staring at the morning Tribune, and waiting for the four o'clock train.

Is that small passage enough to make a conclusion? Perhaps what Nick is really attracted to in Jordan Baker is her masculinity - she's described as being quite butch. What do you guys think?

Robert

Well, after reading the great gatsby the paragraph mentioned above is very ambiguous and could mean a variety of different things. However i percieved it as you did, i thought that he went to bed with the guy.

sorry, not read that book. and your probably wondering why I am posting here...cos no one else seems to. so hi. and using my lack of analytical skills i would say yes, lever: phallic symbol? use of the word groaned, syntax structure: we groaned, not elevator groaned etc.

lol butch is an interesting way to put it!! In my mind, Jordan had a slim boyish figure. Definitely not butch!!
Maybe the scene you quoted was the result of Mr Fitzgerald being more drunk than usual.

I always assumed Nick to be somewhat bisexual- Jordan is referred to as 'boyish' at one point, i think, and Nick describes Gatsby as having 'something gorgeous about him'. Plus that scene with the elevator which i never actually noticed before.

Nick is not gay. He has been engaged before (to a woman) back in the mid-west and was attracted to Jordan throughtout the novel who was not butch but is refered to as a very attractive woman. They kiss and Nick only doesn't want to be with her at the end of the novel because of her attitude towards the accident involving Gatsby and Daisy and resulting in Myrtle's death.

Nick Carroway is not gay. Before he arrived at the Eggs he was engaged to a woman who he did not marry only because "he would not be gossiped into it" Furthermore, Nick only breaks up with Jordan after her insensitivity about the matter of Myrtle's death and her the fact that she represents so many of the negative issues of the hedonistic society she lives in, for example immorality. Furthermore, Nick kisses Jordan and is immediately attracted to her. This does not suggest that Nick is gay and if he was F.Scott.Fitzgerald would make more clear, as opposed to describing it through Nick's drunken state.

Nick is not gay as he had strong feelings for Jordan even though she thinks he is quite shallow.:p

I agree fully with Eilidh and Emily, well said ladies. xx

I agree with Taita xxxxxxx

Yup, I don't think Nick is gay either, though there are some pretty sketchy parts that could certainly point to it. But I think that being that was one of the two times Nick was ever drunk, he just could not hold his liquor-- my Lit teacher also said that an elevator boy would not snap at a gentleman like that "Get your hand off the lever" unless they had not been behaving properly (which was most likely the case)

Yes, Nick was engaged before and to a woman. You forget, this book is set in the 1920s, an era with a culture that is completely different from ours in most every way.

The ambiguity of the end of the chapter quoted is due largely to Nick's blurry recollection of the event (if you remember, he was quite drunk). It would be silly for Fitzgerald to have his drunk, first person narrator narrate in a perfectly coherent style. As the chapter winds down, the recollection becomes more fragmented to mirror Nick's patchy memory of the evening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by optimisticnad

sorry, not read that book. and your probably wondering why I am posting here...cos no one else seems to. so hi. and using my lack of analytical skills i would say yes, lever: phallic symbol? use of the word groaned, syntax structure: we groaned, not elevator groaned etc.

---

ya but i dont think he is gay. I think the author meant to say that "the elevator groaned" but he has a different way of describing things. I heard about it in my AP English class or somethign. Something about how F. Scott Fitzgerald knows what he is talking about but forgets to make it so that the readers know what he is talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robfearon

'Keep your hands off the lever,' snapped the elevator boy.


'I beg your pardon,' said Mr McKee with dignity, 'I didn't know I was touching it.'
Robert

---

NIck is a pedifile! why would Fitzgerald write this if he didn't want to imply at least wavy orientation. The drunken argument doesn't work, Fitzgerald doesn't write drunk. He does everything else drunk, just not writing. The fact that Nick has been drinking only makes this passage even worse.

This allows me to formulate the conclusion that Nick is meant to like :banana: , Besides it says he loses interest with the lady from his past over a summer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkmage2003

Yes, Nick was engaged before and to a woman. You forget, this book is set in the 1920s, an era with a culture that is completely different from ours in most every way.

---

The culture was of merely keeping your homo or bisexuality 'under wraps' so to speak. A lot of people were gay or bisexual (Walt Whitman, Oscar Wilde, Shakespeare, and maybe King James). I haven't read the book, but the culture doesn't disprove orientation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obesechicken13

NIck is a pedifile! why would Fitzgerald write this if he didn't want to imply at least wavy orientation. The drunken argument doesn't work, Fitzgerald doesn't write drunk. He does everything else drunk, just not writing. The fact that Nick has been drinking only makes this passage even worse.

This allows me to formulate the conclusion that Nick is meant to like :banana: , Besides it says he loses interest with the lady from his past over a summer.

---

If you're referring to my comments, I didn't say Fitzgeral "wrote" drunk - I said Nick the narrator's descriptions of the evening are reflective of his drinking. You'll need more persuasive evidence than what you've quoted to be convincing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obesechicken13

NIck is a pedifile! why would Fitzgerald write this if he didn't want to imply at least wavy orientation. The drunken argument doesn't work, Fitzgerald doesn't write drunk. He does everything else drunk, just not writing. The fact that Nick has been drinking only makes this passage even worse.

This allows me to formulate the conclusion that Nick is meant to like :banana: , Besides it says he loses interest with the lady from his past over a summer.

---

Well, this is the quote:

Quote:

---

Keep your hands off the lever,' snapped the elevator boy.
'I beg your pardon,' said Mr McKee with dignity, 'I didn't know I was touching it.'

---

How you can conclude Nick is a pedophile by a comment directed at Mr McKee I am not quite sure...I would also like to point out that pedophilia and homosexuality are NOT the same thing.

I also don't think a dancing banana is the object of Nick's romantic or sexual interests. If you want to say you think Nick is gay, you could just state "Nick is meant to like other men." That works better than references to fruit, dancing or otherwise.

i had thought this when i read the novel, i must admit. the main reasons being:

as others have said 'the elevator sequence'. why include that he had seen the man in his underwear? and he had also said that he left the party at 12 and then we next see him at a train station at 4am... all that is said in the mean time is that he was in the bedroom with a nearly naked man, and an 'artistic' type at that.

that he seems to regard women as simply forms of companions, or something that he should have as it is expected, such as the wealth in the book

he didnt actually like jordan, exept, as i said above, for the company. there is a statement in the book when Jordan explained the Gatsby/Daisy history and Nick states something like ' i didnt have a sparkle in my eye, such as a Daisy or a Gatsby, someone to hold close, so i turned to the woman sitting beside me and hugged her close to me.

also, he fell out of love with the girl 'back west' simply as he was physically not attracted to her 'i envisioned that moustache of sweat that would form everytime we would play tennis'

...just my two cents....but also women in the book are not looked very kindly apon, look at dishonest Jordan, silly ditzy daisy, and the silly girls that come to Gatsby's parties. perhaps this 'gay' persona of nicks was just the product of Fitzgeralds, either own gay inclinations, or he was simply going through a strained part of his relationship with his wife (it was known they had many) and was just not thinking kindly of us girls;)

One piece of evidence that I think suggests Nick may be gay is his 'insecurity'. Throughout the novel Nick is constantly reassuring the readers that he is an honest fellow. Perhaps Nick tells people he is honest because truly he [I]isn't honest. But rather, Nick is hiding a secret such as his homosexuality.

Another similar point is that at the beginning of the book Nick says that he always reserves judgment on people. Perhaps he reserves judgment because he himself does not want to be judged (for being gay). Just an idea...

I am wrong. :banana:

I don't think that I can say that Nick is definitely straight because he was engaged to a woman before. Some people consider sexuality to be on an continuum, just because you start out straight doesn't mean you are going to be that way for the rest of your lives. Nick is most likely hetero, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't attracted to Gatsby in some way, that he didn't think Gatsby was actually pretty great despite the ambiguous nature of his wealth and his adulterous relationship with Daisy. I think Nick had a definite crush on Gatsby.

[QUOTE=robfearon;178192]Is Nick Carraway, the narrator, gay (or bisexual)? In chapter 2, he goes down the elevator with Mr McKee:

'Come to lunch some day,' he suggested, as we groaned down the elevator.


the fact that they are "groaning" down the elevator simply means that F.Scott was using a literary device.
why must we all be so immature?

Nick is bi he totally has like this whole inuendo thing with the lever in the elebator but he is envolved with women...

dude it's not immature... why do u have to be so literal at least sum people r reading into what Fitzgerald was trying to tell us...

[QUOTE=ladysusan;516349]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robfearon

Is Nick Carraway, the narrator, gay (or bisexual)? In chapter 2, he goes down the elevator with Mr McKee:

'Come to lunch some day,' he suggested, as we groaned down the elevator.


the fact that they are "groaning" down the elevator simply means that F.Scott was using a literary device.
why must we all be so immature?

---

it's not immature tothink he's gay or bi... it's immature to think that everything Fitzgerald wrote was supposed to be interpreted literally!

I have to say it was rather shocking at first to see the title of this thread after reading through the "Nick" thread...
(I believe you are responsible for this, ZoeyZuly. ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grittylit

women in the book are not looked very kindly upon, look at . . . silly ditzy daisy . . .

---

I know this is a little off topic, but I always wondered why readers label Daisy as a ditz or space case. I think she's one of the more intelligent characters in the book. There are two scenes in the book people always refer to when making this case, and I'd like to refute them:

1. The part when Daisy says she hopes her daughter grows up to be stupid.

Most people look at this part and say "what a stupid thing to wish for." However, I think Daisy is making poignant social commentary. Daisy is aware that women are play things for guys like Tom and Gatsby. Women are usually dismissed in this time period as shallow, infantile, stupid, lesser than men, etc. Daisy is aware she's in a bad marriage with a racist brute of a husband. By saying she hopes her daughter is dumb, she's essentially saying that stupid women are almost better off--at least they don't realize their agency is non-existent.

2. The part when Daisy cries because Gatsby shows her the shirts.

Again, her tears at the sight of the shirts seem irrational and ridiculous. Think again--Daisy is crying because she's realizing that a man she hasn't seen in a decade has basically been living his life for her. The shirts are inconsequential; they might have well been mothballs, potatoes, lampshades. Gatsby takes her on this whirlwind tour of the mansion, basically saying, "I've done this all for you." How exactly is a married woman supposed to respond to the dramatic weight of Gatsby's grand gesture? Daisy's remark about the shirts is the only thing she can think of on the spot to conceal her true feelings about Gatsby's return.

When you compare Daisy to Gatsby (a guy trying to recreate the past), Nick (a judgmental guy who thinks he's non-judgmental), or Tom (a racist lunatic), suddenly Daisy looks pretty smart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grittylit

women in the book are not looked very kindly upon, look at . . . silly ditzy daisy . . .

---

(my emphasis)

I know this is a little off topic, but I always wondered why readers label Daisy as a ditz or space case. I think she's one of the more intelligent characters in the book. There are two scenes in the book people always refer to when making this case, and I'd like to refute them:

1. The part when Daisy says she hopes her daughter grows up to be stupid.

Most people look at this part and say "what a stupid thing to wish for." However, I think Daisy is making poignant social commentary. Daisy is aware that women are play things for guys like Tom and Gatsby. Women are usually dismissed in this time period as shallow, infantile, stupid, lesser than men, etc. Daisy is aware she's in a bad marriage with a racist brute of a husband. By saying she hopes her daughter is dumb, she's essentially saying that stupid women are almost better off--at least they don't realize their agency is non-existent.

2. The part when Daisy cries because Gatsby shows her the shirts.

Again, her tears at the sight of the shirts seem irrational and ridiculous. Think again--Daisy is crying because she's realizing that a man she hasn't seen in a decade has basically been living his life for her. The shirts are inconsequential; they might have well been mothballs, potatoes, lampshades. Gatsby takes her on this whirlwind tour of the mansion, basically saying, "I've done this all for you." How exactly is a married woman supposed to respond to the dramatic weight of Gatsby's grand gesture? Daisy's remark about the shirts is the only thing she can think of on the spot to conceal her true feelings about Gatsby's return.

When you compare Daisy to Gatsby (a guy trying to recreate the past), Nick (a judgmental guy who thinks he's non-judgmental), or Tom (a racist lunatic), suddenly Daisy looks pretty smart.

i totally agree, my friend actually wrote a song called perfect little fool because of daisy's comment... btw wat was i responsible 4?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZoeyJuly

i totally agree, my friend actually wrote a song called perfect little fool because of daisy's comment... btw wat was i responsible 4?

---

Just for commenting on the two threads relating to people named Nick, so that they showed up really close together on my "New Posts" list. Thus, when I finished reading about the real, living-breathing LitNet member Nick, I was startled to see a thread titled "Is Nick gay?"
That is all.

haha i have that effect on people jk..:lol:

I think that what you are proposing is a bit of a stretch and not plausible in any sense, whatsoever, but it is still quite amusing. Good job mate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robfearon

Is Nick Carraway, the narrator, gay (or bisexual)? In chapter 2, he goes down the elevator with Mr McKee:

'Come to lunch some day,' he suggested, as we groaned down the elevator.
'Where?'
'Anywhere.'
'Keep your hands off the lever,' snapped the elevator boy.
'I beg your pardon,' said Mr McKee with dignity, 'I didn't know I was touching it.'
'All right,' I agreed, 'I'll be glad to.'
...I was standing beside his bed and he was sitting up between the sheets, clad in his underwear, with a great portfolio in his hands.
'Beauty and the Beast...Loneliness...Old Grocery Horse...Brook'n Bridge...'
Then I was lying half asleep in the lower level of the Pennsylvania Station, staring at the morning Tribune, and waiting for the four o'clock train.

Is that small passage enough to make a conclusion? Perhaps what Nick is really attracted to in Jordan Baker is her masculinity - she's described as being quite butch. What do you guys think?

Robert

---

in a stage version of it, both he and jordan are gay. i think he might be, in the same way that it is hinted charles is in brideshead revisited.

I've always wondered this too but I think the front part of my head chose to ignore it, I always forget people are gay and then ask them what they think of someone and just get "that look". Maybe Fitzgerald is giving us "the look" right now? :D

Maybe Nick is in love with gatsby...

Quote:

---

the fact that they are "groaning" down the elevator simply means that F.Scott was using a literary device.
why must we all be so immature?

---

Quote:

---

it's not immature tothink he's gay or bi... it's immature to think that everything Fitzgerald wrote was supposed to be interpreted literally!

---

Literary device not literal intepretation. two different things. Literary devices refer to specific aspects of literature, in the sense of its universal function as an art form which expresses ideas through language, which we can recognize, identify, interpret and/or analyze. Literary devices collectively comprise the art form’s components; the means by which authors create meaning through language, and by which readers gain understanding of and appreciation for their works. They also provide a conceptual framework for comparing individual literary works to others, both within and across genres. Both literary elements and literary techniques can be called literary devices.

perhaps the 'underwear scene' was supposed to show how uncouth, slobbish, etc. that society truly was.
i agree with the drunk concept more than the gay one, though it is an interesting twist and take on Nick. xD

just reading the book... found this passage (is it correct to call it a passage?) chapter three when he describes other things he's done besides gatsby's party:

"I even had an affair with a girl who lived in Jersey City and worked in the accounting department, but her brother began throwing mean looks in my direction, so when she went on her vacation in July, I let it blow away quietly."

and this:

" I liked to walk up Fifth Avenue and pick out romantic women from the crowd and imagine that in a few minutes I was going to enter into their lives... sometimes in my mind i followed them to their apartments... and they turned and smiled back at me..."

so I'm guessing he's fascinated by gatsby but is capable of being attracted to women?

Since homosexuality was rarely spoken of and thought of as vulgar during the 1920s, I think it's safe to say that Fitzgerald wouldn't blatantly create a homosexual character. However he does hint at the possibility of a sexual encounter with Mr. McKee through ellipses and the description of Mr. McKee "clad in his underwear."

With that being said, I think Fitzgerald's main point at the end of Chapter II revolves around moral corruption. As the alcohol sinks in around midnight, the party ends with Tom Buchanan breaking Myrtle's nose without an ounce of guilt. Then as Myrtle begins "bleeding fluently," she tries to cover "the tapestry scenes of Versailles" instead of attending to her nose.

Abruptly switching to Mr. McKee and Nick walking out on Mrytle's distress, Fitzgerald uses Nick's scene with Mr. McKee to further hint at the moral corruption of the party and of the 1920s in general.

"Mr McKee was a pale, feminine man from the flat below. He had just shaved, for there was a white spot of later on his cheekbone ... He informed me that he was in the 'artistic game', and I gathered later that he was a photographer."

"It was nine o'clock - almost immediately afterwards I looked at my watch and found it was ten. Mr McKee was asleep on a chair with his fists clenched in his lap, like a photograph of a man of action. Taking out my handkershief I wiped from his cheek the spot of dried lather that had worried me all the afternoon."

When Gatsby is talking with Nick:
"There was the smile again, but this time I held out against it. 'I don't like mysteries,' I answered, 'and I don't understand why you won't come out frankly and tell me what you want. Why has it all got to come through Miss Baker?'"

When Meyer Wolfsheim is talking with Nick:
"'Fine fellow, isn't he? Handsome to look at and a perfect gentleman.' 'Yes.'"

****

Part of me wants Nick to be bi, because it makes the story all the more interesting. So that's probably why I'm listing a bunch of quotes from the book that may not even have anything to do with the assumption. Eh! :p