Anyone familiar with this poem??? i need to write two pages on it and i dont get it yet...i would love any help with analysis, etc...thanks!!!!
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Anyone familiar with this poem??? i need to write two pages on it and i dont get it yet...i would love any help with analysis, etc...thanks!!!!
I think that this poem is fairly straightforward. One major and obvious aspect of this poem is Love’s taking on a physical presence. In this poem, Love can eat, it grows corpulent, it can drink, etc. I wonder if this poem also observes Love as a consumer in a fuller sense?
I think that the first stanza is self explanatory. In line six he identifies the object of his imposed diet: discretion. Discretion is that which love “worst endures”.
For the rest of the poem he goes about describing the way he prescribes the diet, it’s effects, and it’s scenarios.
In stanza two:
“And if sometimes by stealth he got
A she-sigh from my mistress' heart,
And thought to feast upon that, I let him see
'Twas neither very sound, nor meant to me.”
The word honest, genuine or pure might be substituted for “sound” here. I guess maybe this may be another comment on women?
The “meat” in line 17 refers to the sigh he (Love) consumed earlier, I think.
The trouble I have with the poem is in the fourth stanza.
“I said, "If any title be
Convey'd by this, ah ! what doth it avail,
To be the fortieth name in an entail?”
He’s saying that if he can gain from burning her letters and dictating Love’s, if there is an attainable title by such an action, what good is it anyway if one must be fortieth in line? Or perhaps that currently he is fortieth, and he wants to ascend the order? :confused:
Or is he burning the letters that Love is having him write? :confused: There seems to be confusion about where exactly the semicolon belongs in that line.
The last stanza is pretty degrading. A buzzard is a big, stupid bird. He becomes like a hunter, who “springs” up his quarry (women) like “the falconers” do. After having disrupted it, and subsequently apprehending it, and then going through all the trials associated with being in a relationship, the “game is killed” (the game being the woman-bird, I think, and also the game of love) and he goes off to other daily, mundane activities.
In the fourth stanza, Donne is burning the letters his dieting love forces him to write, in order to keep it slim. Donne cannot control the lady's act of writing to him, so instead, he downplays that "favour" by claiming he is fortieth in line for the title (of beloved). In other words, it seems an extrapolation of the theme of the previous stanzas, in stanza two, he convinces himself that any sigh the lady makes is not for him, and thus proof of her sexual duplicity. In the third stanza, her tears are not real, but counterfeit - she does not weep for him, but sweats because she is rolling her eyes at everyone - another evidence of her promiscuity. In the fourth stanza her letters are to him, but after thirty-nine other candidates!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoutGrace
I agree that this is a rather degrading and cocky (he he) stanza. My one note is that "buzzard" in my edition is glossed as an inferior hawk, tying this stanza to the Ovidian tradition of hawk and dove/pursuer and prey. This version, however, is much more harsh toward the lady in question - her pursuit or loss affects him equally. In breaking away from the Ovidian tradition, Donne shocks us, but also seems to discredit himself at the same time. Is he really as blase about the whole thing as it seems? If so, why write a poem about it? :brow:Quote:
The last stanza is pretty degrading. A buzzard is a big, stupid bird. He becomes like a hunter, who “springs” up his quarry (women) like “the falconers” do. After having disrupted it, and subsequently apprehending it, and then going through all the trials associated with being in a relationship, the “game is killed” (the game being the woman-bird, I think, and also the game of love) and he goes off to other daily, mundane activities.
Ah, and after the imparter of knowledge graciously illuminates the situation, all is made clear. :nod: :nod: Thank you . . . I should have figured that he was making a dig at women (similar to the 20 other lovers in "The Will").Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl
You're so bad. ;) Donne wouldn't expect anything less from his critics, I'm sure. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl
Ah, you're glosses are better than my glosses! :( I had only my previous avian knowledge to go on. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl
What you've said here makes this poem much more meaningful. Why write a poem about it, indeed!
That's one of the many things I love about Donne. People may hate him and declare him a misogynist, but really, he was no worse than most men of the time. Furthermore, I think a lot of times he takes on the role of sexual braggart - especially in the elegies. . . he's more like a jock bragging about what he DID(n't) do in the locker room to his buddies than an actual hater of women.:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoutGrace
..........
Donne is bashing women because he has an inferiority complex due to his woefully undersized genitalia. He has to address the situation somehow. ;)
why do the eyes signify promiscuity, what is sexual about rolling ones eyes?
HOW does Donne bash women, i didnt really see that
after looking at the poem again, im pretty sure u both missed the point, the point is that he is comparing love (usually good etc) to a big fat creature that feeds on things. The speaker (not nessicarily donne himself!) is trying to control the creature, so that the creature does not in turn controll him. I dont see this as an anti-woman poem, and u have no evidence to support that theroy (other than specukation about the size of his noots) he merely wishes not to be controlled
ONE more thing, the buzzard isnt a woman ITS THE LOVE!!!! at the end of the poem he controls the love live a "falc'ner" a hunter, dont try and make the poem negative to women when its not. u just dont understand metaphysical poetry
i guess the promiscuity is shown in the fact that she looks at many men, and the sweaty has sexual connotations, but by no means bashes women
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Originally Posted by happyjackf
I'm not trying to make the poem anything. How much Donne have you read?
Do you consider promiscuity in women a good thing? Did Donne?
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyjackf
You should be very relieved that I didn't help you, then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoutGrace
Glad to see that you were unable to read my post, BTW.
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Originally Posted by happyjackf
u just randomly quoted me and asked rhetorical questions but by no means proved the fact that donne is negative to women
yeah thats great use of evidence to prove a point... u got me... quite the literary expert...i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by ShoutGrace
The purpose for writing the poem seems implicit in the last stanza-the "turn" of the poem.
The poet wants the freedom to "go talk or sleep" the mundane activities that Love takes away.
The final conceit uses hunting to suggest the freedom the poet has acquired through his "diet".His taming of the instinct of love has turned it into a "game".
My questions to you still stand:
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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace
That's fine. I suggest you re-read this thread with a view towards comprehension, rather than disputation for its own sake. I hope you did well with your homework and I hope you enjoy Donne.Quote:
Originally Posted by happyjackf
You're totally correct here. I had mistakenly assumed that any reader with the slightest smidgen of intellect would inherently understand that I was being entirely facetious (one reason for which, of course, was your choosing of the word "bash"). But you've clearly repudiated my assumption (take note that there is actually a compliment to be found there). I hope you don't continue to read poetry in the same manner as the one that you've mangled my posts with.Quote:
Originally Posted by happyjackf
Anthony Furze: I'll go back and look at the poem with your reading in mind.