My husband's mini sermon

As per request to know what my feelings are about the Bible and how it affects me, I wanted to post my husband's first sermon, because it pretty much says it:



We, at University Church of Christ have one religious scriptural authority, the Bible.

If you are visiting and you don't agree with our view of the bible, I encourage you to talk to one of the members and they can study with you to find our why you disagree.

Here, at University We try to follow the command Peter gave in 1 Peter 3:15

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But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

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1 year ago I Read an article that there are thousands of registered religious groups in the US. It told of groups from those who worship Elvis to those who worship John F Kennedy. When telling people about the Church of Christ, I run into lots of Denominations. Most denominations have their own collection of teachings apart from the bible. It is difficult to distinguish between different groups, but all can be judged by one standard, the Bible. The following lesson was done by Joe Galloway, a church of Christ evangelist.


When someone is looking for the true church, how do they know when they've found it? They know cause God gave us a pattern on what is pleasing to God based on what we saw God do in the Old Testament!

God has never accepts man’s worship when it’s devised by man; he has always told man what he must do to be accepted of Him. Many have the misconception that it does not matter what one does in religion, as long as he is sincere.

This idea implies that man, even without a revelation from God, could determine a way to live that would please God. However, God said in Jeremiah 10:23

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I know, O LORD , that a man's life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.

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and
Solomon warned in Proverbs 14:12 that…

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There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

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God has given us the Bible to guide us! Just as a builder must adhere to his blueprint to build a specific structure, so too must men strictly follow God's Scriptural pattern to live and worship acceptably.

Did God give us any patterns in the Old Testament?

God told Noah to build an ark. He then said in Gen. 6:14-16

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So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. 16 Make a roof for it and finish the ark to within 18 inches of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks.

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Noah carefully followed God's pattern. Verse 22 says

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Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

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Noah's obedience demonstrated his faith (Heb. 11:7).

Similarly, God commanded Moses to construct a tabernacle (with furnishings) as a center of worship for Israel. He gave detailed instructions concerning its materials and even for the size of each object. He then said in Exodus 25:9,

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Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.

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Notice the word pattern used by God here!

And also, the Lord gave David a blueprint (which he was to give to his son, Solomon) for constructing the temple. In 1 Chronicles 28:19 it says

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"All this," David said, "I have in writing from the hand of the LORD upon me, and he gave me understanding in all the details of the plan."

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Again, the plan shows the exacting nature of God's instructions.

Is there a pattern for the Lord's church today? The Lord has a spiritual temple today. Its builder is "greater than Solomon" Matthew 16:18; 12:42

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18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

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The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.

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It is not a physical building, but one made up of people, all the saved, as in Acts 2:47

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praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

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Paul told Christians in 1 Corinthians 3:9, "Ye are God's building".
Rather than the stone and cedar of Solomon's temple, the church is composed of living material as in 1 Peter. 2:5

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you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

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Is there a pattern (a blueprint) for the church Jesus built?

Just as God gave instructions for the building of Noah's ark, Moses' tabernacle, and Solomon's temple, so He gave specifications for the church. Jesus gave the twelve the pattern for the church in Matthew 18:18

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"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

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A more literal translation is, "Whatsoever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatsoever you release on the earth will have been released in heaven." God's instructions for the church would be (and were) given through the Apostles and recorded in the New Testament.

Did God Intend the New Testament To Be a Pattern?

Many Scriptures demonstrate that God most certainly expects men to follow His revelation given through the apostles. The Jerusalem Church in Acts 2:42

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They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

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In 1 Corinthians 14:37, the things that Paul wrote were called "the commandments of the Lord". Paul warned us in Galatians 1:8

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But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

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Everything taught or practiced had to be in the name of [i.e., by the authority of] the Lord Jesus as in Colossians 3:17

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And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

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2 John 9 also says…

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Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

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as well as 1 Peter 4:11 says

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If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

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And why must we keep from changing the pattern we received from the new testament?

1 Corinthians 4:6 says

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Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

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and Rev. 22:18-19 says

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I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

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Paul also said those not obeying the epistles written by the apostles were not to be fellowshipped as in 2 Thessalonians 14:14-15

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14If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

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Paul added in 2 Timothy 1:13

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What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

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You can't hold to a form, or pattern that is constantly changing. The Bible tells us that the New Testament was and is a fixed and permanent pattern for all to follow. Christ promised to be with those who teach His message given through the apostles as it said in Matthew 28:20

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and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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And even today, the New Testament is still God's pattern.

Occasionally someone says that, although the New Testament was the law for people of the first century, we live in a different time and thus cannot still be expected to follow it today. However, Jude 3 declares that

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Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

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The word translated "once" here is the same one translated "once" in Hebrews 9:28.

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so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

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In Hebrews, it is evident that Christ being "once offered" means that He died once for all time. Christ need not and will not die again for us. Likewise, the once in Jude 3 shows that "the faith" was given once for all time. It will never be changed or amended, but shall stand as God's pattern for us all to follow until time shall end!


And so there is no need for a change in the pattern.

When Jesus built His church and, through the apostles and gave the New
Testament as the pattern by which it was to continue, He gave men as it says in 2 Peter 1:3

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His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

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Through the inspired Scriptures God's people were as it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17

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16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

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Though we live in a changing world, this blueprint from God is unchangeable for several reasons:

1. Human nature has not changed.
Man still sins, and thus still need the salvation that comes through the changeless Gospel of Christ as it says in Romans 1:16

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I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

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2. Sin has not changed. It is still "the transgression of the law" as it says in 1 John 3:4

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Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

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and results in death and separation from God as in Romans 6:23

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For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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3. Satan has not changed.
He is still the tempter as in 1 Thessalonians 3:5, wishes to devour us as in 1 Peter 5:8, and thus wants to take away God's Word from our hearts so we will be lost as in Jesus’ story of the seed that fell on the path in Luke 8:12. To resist him we must carefully follow God's Word - the “pattern” God has provided to guide us to Heaven. Jesus used what was written in the Scriptures to resist and overcome Satan's temptations Matthew 4:4,7,10

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4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "

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We, too, must have God's Word in our hearts to keep from sinning against Him Psalms 119:11

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I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.

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4. Christ has not changed.
He is still both Head and Savior of His church Ephesians 5:23

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23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

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and has all authority in Heaven and on earth Matthew 28:18

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Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

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His New Testament is the pattern we must carefully obey, as in Hebrews 9:15

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15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

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His Word will judge us at the end of time as in John 12:48

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There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

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5. His will for the church has not changed.
He still has just one church Matthew 16:18

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18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

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The “rock” in that verse is Peter’s confession that Jesus is the son of God. The church began on Pentecost in Acts 2 and is the one that continues to follow the New Testament pattern. We must not confuse modern denominations with the Lord's church. It must be without blemish, accomplished only by following the New Testament pattern!

Any thinking person who carefully studies the Bible should understand that no person or congregation is to be imitated except as they follow Christ as in 1 Corinthians 11:1

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1Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

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The New Testament makes it clear what God did and did not approve of in every first-century congregation. Just as God's Word was His pattern for the church then, it still is the sole means by which we determine if He approves us today. Not some particular person or congregation, but the New Testament is God's pattern for us to follow!




I hope this clarifies my standing on the Bible, for anyone who is interested, it took over an hour of copying and pasting!! :o ;)

Very good.

Jonus

Thanks, Shea.

Hello Sister Shea!
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call--
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most denominations claim to be following the original pattern and the original scriptures, but differ in interpretation and emphasis? The mormons and the JFK church are obvious exceptions, of course.

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most denominations claim to be following the original pattern and the original scriptures, but differ in interpretation and emphasis? The mormons and the JFK church are obvious exceptions, of course.

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Sorry, cuppajoe, but there is more to it. Denominations (as you call them) claim "special knowledge" through tradition or the interpretation of men (Roman Catholics, Lutheran, Methodists, etc.). The Mormons and others point to new "inspired revelation", which is still just following the knowledge of another man since God no longer uses supernatural means to communicate his will. Everything needed to ensure the safety of our eternal soul is provided simply and plainly in the Bible by obeying the gospel and joining the church that Christ established (note the small “c”). Nothing more, and certainly nothing less is required.

By the jfk church do you mean the Kennedy Worshipers? If so, they are a new one on me. Frankly I doubt JFK as a path to salvation. 8^{)>

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Originally Posted by Crusader

Sorry, cuppajoe, but there is more to it. Denominations (as you call them) claim "special knowledge" through tradition or the interpretation of men (Roman Catholics, Lutheran, Methodists, etc.).

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The Catholics (as opposed to Mormons) do not have additional scripture that they refer to, do they? I was a Catholic for quite a while, and I only ever read the New and Old Testaments. I don't think the practices of confession or communion are mentioned directly anywhere in the NT, but most religions have some sort of way to confess your sins, and the transubstantiation issue depends entirely on how literally you interpret the last supper speach.

I suppose I am just confused as to which pattern all these churches are supposed to be breaking.

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Originally Posted by Crusader

By the jfk church do you mean the Kennedy Worshipers? If so, they are a new one on me. Frankly I doubt JFK as a path to salvation. 8^{)>

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I was referring to this bit from the original post:

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Originally Posted by Shea

1 year ago I Read an article that there are thousands of registered religious groups in the US. It told of groups from those who worship Elvis to those who worship John F Kennedy.

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Man, I can even think of better presidents to worship than JFK. Young and pretty does not a good leader make.

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

The Catholics (as opposed to Mormons) do not have additional scripture that they refer to, do they?

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Yep - they have 7 extra books in the old testament compared to the protestant bible. This is where such ideas as purgatory come from.

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Originally Posted by StabnSteer

Yep - they have 7 extra books in the old testament compared to the protestant bible. This is where such ideas as purgatory come from. There is a discussion about why these books exist about halfway down this page: http://www.cmri.org/00prog11.html

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Rats, forgot about those extra books. They don't cover the conventions of the Catholic church service though (I hope), which is really what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

Rats, forgot about those extra books. They don't cover the conventions of the Catholic church service though (I hope), which is really what I'm talking about. The communion and the stained glass have nothing to do with purgatory.

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But they do serve as the basis for Transubstatiation which is not Biblical. The bread and wine were a symbol for body and blood to remember Jesus by, not actually change into the b & b in your stomach.

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Originally Posted by Crusader

which is still just following the knowledge of another man since God no longer uses supernatural means to communicate his will.

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Isn't that strange? Big happenings 2,000, 3,000 years ago . . . not so much recently.

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

Young and pretty does not a good leader make.

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You find JFK pretty, do you?

"But they do serve as the basis for Transubstatiation which is not Biblical. The bread and wine were a symbol for body and blood to remember Jesus by, not actually change into the b & b in your stomach."

That is your interpretation - that is not what the words actually say. ("touto estin to soma mou" and "touto gar estin to haema mou" Matthew 26, for example) Transubstantiation is a literal understanding of the biblical passage, and is hence more "biblical" than an interpretation that departs from the exact meaning of the words.

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

Isn't that strange? Big happenings 2,000, 3,000 years ago . . . not so much recently.

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Not strange at all. Part of His plan.

1Co 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for {special} knowledge, it will pass away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect (the Bible) comes, the partial (supernatural intervention) will pass away.

The Bible is more "perfect" than the Resurrection? How is the Resurrection "partial?" I would contend that supernatural intervention is much more "complete" than the Holy Bible.


What do you think of 1 Corinthians 13 in light of verse 12 - "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

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Originally Posted by Crusader

But they do serve as the basis for Transubstatiation which is not Biblical. The bread and wine were a symbol for body and blood to remember Jesus by, not actually change into the b & b in your stomach.

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The last supper speach is the basis for transubstantiation, no? "Take of this bread, for it is my body, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera..."

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

You find JFK pretty, do you?

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Compared to, say, Nixon, he's Adonis.

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Originally Posted by Crusader

1Co 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for {special} knowledge, it will pass away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect (the Bible) comes, the partial (supernatural intervention) will pass away.

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In the context, that means something very different then what you are trying to say (the way I read it anyway). Good job on quoting one of the aproximately three passages of the Bible I am actually familiar with in detail, by the way.

I always took it to mean either

a.) Death - the afterlife is perfect, this life is partial, or

b.) The Rapture - the second coming of the Christ.


I'm glad to hear you're familiar with these verses, cuppajoe_9. I'll post all of Corinthians 13 here because I like it so much. It is commonly referred to as the "Love" chapter, and is quoted at weddings etc.

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1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;

7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

What do you think of 1 Corinthians 13 in light of verse 12 - "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

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Good question...... working on a nearly as good answer...... :idea:

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

I always took it to mean either

a.) Death - the afterlife is perfect, this life is partial, or

b.) The Rapture - the second coming of the Christ.

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I always took the meaning to be something like "here knowledge is fleeting, here friend is fleeting, here man is fleeting, here woman is fleeting", without love (or 'charity' as the King James prefers). I take issue with Crusader's editorial "special".

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

I'm glad to hear you're familiar with these verses, cuppajoe_9. I'll post all of Corinthians 13 here because I like it so much.

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Yeah, it's not bad;).

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

In the context, that means something very different then what you are trying to say (the way I read it anyway). Good job on quoting one of the aproximately three passages of the Bible I am actually familiar with in detail, by the way.

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

I always took it to mean either
a.) Death - the afterlife is perfect, this life is partial, or
b.) The Rapture - the second coming of the Christ.
I'm glad to hear you're familiar with these verses, cuppajoe_9. I'll post all of Corinthians 13 here because I like it so much. It is commonly referred to as the "Love" chapter, and is quoted at weddings etc.

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1 Corinthians 13 should never be construed as merely an abstract teaching on love but as a continuation of Paul’s attempt in chapter 12 (and also 14) to teach the “children” of Corinth competing with their new spiritual gift “toys” that they were not understanding the purpose of those gifts. They were provided as tools to support the emerging gospel message, but they were not an end unto themselves. Chapter 12 ends with Paul telling them to (1Co 12:31) ....”earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.”, and then proceeds to tell them that love is their greatest and never ending gift. (1Co 13:8a) “Love never ends.”

But.... (1Co 13:8b) “As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. (1Co 13:9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part,” The gifts on which they were so intent would pass because they were only a temporary necessity during the partial revelation of God’s word. (1Co 13:10) "but when the perfect (the complete NT revelation of God’s word) comes, the partial (supernatural intervention) will pass away.”, because with that full revelation, there is no need, as some here have said, for “magic tricks”.

So.... finally to your question....

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

The Bible is more "perfect" than the Resurrection? How is the Resurrection "partial?" I would contend that supernatural intervention is much more "complete" than the Holy Bible.
What do you think of 1 Corinthians 13 in light of verse 12 - "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

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The supernatural event of the Resurrection is the fulcrum upon which all of Christianity balances. Without it, there would be no Christians in Corinth to which Paul would have been writing his letter.

Verse 12 depends on verses 11 and 13. (1Cor 13:11) “When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. (1Co 13:12) For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”

Paul is saying that the childish Corinthian Christians could only see the full gospel message dimly, and even he as a mature Christian only knew in part because of the direct revelation given to him. He also knew that the New Testament would be complete only after his death and the death of all the Corinthians. Therefore they all would know fully, just as God fully knows them now, when they were face to face with Christ. But in the mean time, they have their partial gifts, the fellowship with the apostles and other disciples, and (1Co 13:13) “So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” Because above all else...... love endures.

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Originally Posted by Shea

As per request to know what my feelings are about the Bible and how it affects me, I wanted to post my husband's first sermon, because it pretty much says it:



We, at University Church of Christ have one religious scriptural authority, the Bible.

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I find it hard to convey how strange I found all of the foregoing - and how sad! It is as if you found yourself one day face to face with the magnificent, multifarious earth and the vastness of the universe and for some reason or reasons you chose to carve out the narrowest path through all of this and to program in advance which foot you would put forward first and which one next and so on and so on; instead of filling your lungs full of fresh air, you chose to take small, shallow breaths...

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Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin

I find it hard to convey how strange I found all of the foregoing - and how sad! It is as if you found yourself one day face to face with the magnificent, multifarious earth and the vastness of the universe and for some reason or reasons you chose to carve out the narrowest path through all of this and to program in advance which foot you would put forward first and which one next and so on and so on; instead of filling your lungs full of fresh air, you chose to take small, shallow breaths...

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Hmmm, I'd be interested to know how you figure exactly that Shea & her husband took the "narrowest path". You do not them and could not possibly have any idea at what point they decided to become religious and what other paths they may have tried going down before hand. You are making one hell of an assumption based on one post, something which it is generally not wise to do.

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Originally Posted by kilted exile

Hmmm, I'd be interested to know how you figure exactly that Shea & her husband took the "narrowest path". You do not them and could not possibly have any idea at what point they decided to become religious and what other paths they may have tried going down before hand. You are making one hell of an assumption based on one post, something which it is generally not wise to do.

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That was in response to reading that very long list of prescriptions from Scripture, which seemed to cover every situation that a Pilgrim might encounter save, perhaps, whether to have wild or farmed salmon.

Old topic bumped since rules have been changed, and the OP is not here to 'defend' themselves.