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in the play and the movie despite christine's choice she still loved erik. but in the book it was written kind of awkward. i don't know if i didn't analyze it or pay enough attention to it or something but it seemed like christine hated the phantom and was terrified and then raoul was the nice guy that rescued her from him. except at the very end when erik let her go was he nice but overall was he a bad guy?
I think that Christine loved Erik, but not in the way that she loved Raoul, and that she pitied him. Erik was basically the bad guy, but by the end we see that he's not mean-spirited or bad after all.
In my opinion, she definitly loved Erik. She loved Erik and Raoul in different ways. Raoul was her childhood sweetheart, somebody who she was very close to and loved dearly. Erik was her protector, her angel. Christine loved him in the sense that he gave her music, and was there when her father died, so of course she loves him for that. And although she pitied Erik in many ways, she also loved him, and would protect him. So yeah, I think Christine loved Erik.
i think that ultimately she loved erik more....
no matter how much she shows her affections for raoul, it could be a mix wth infatuation... and the love she has for Raoul is definitely a little more insincere than the phantom's love for her.. no doubt he controls her... but u know that he puts his soul into giving her what he could possibly ever give... and the fact that she is afraid of him proves that she does not wanna offend him...coz she does love him enough to be afraid stressing him up...also being close to erik for so long.. and him being her support... a more mature and understanding sort of love would develop.. not much like the love for raoul which could only be on the surface...
i thought in the movie it was not clear whether or not christine loved erik, but it seemed very clear in the novel that she despised him and was terrified of him. that is not love. he was never portrayed as her protector - he terrorized her. that is not love either. up until the very end when he sacrificed his heart for hers, his love was a selfish love. and i do believe that she did pity him- but that was all he was to her - an object of pity. there was never a moment in the book that she gave any indication that she wanted to be with him. throughout, she wanted to be with raoul. whenever she acted like she was going to erik voluntarily it was to protect raoul. everything she did was for raoul. in fact, during the climax of the book when erik had kidnapped christine, he had to tie her up - why? be/c she kept trying to kill herself so that she wouldn't have to marry him. is that love? methinks not!
also, erik was romanticized in the movie in a way which was not in the book. up until his final moments he was a monster and christine saw that.
I agree The fact is that christine felt an immense commpassion towards Erik she pitied him and everything he had gone through she was in love with Raoul and sacrificed her life for a shortwhile to save him at the end of the book in the chapter where Erik forces her to choose him or Raoul but also threatens that if she chooses Raoul he would kill him and the other members of the human race The thing with this is that many people get confused with Christines feelings Compassion and pity are forms of love but not in the romantic sense There is a diffrence between love and being in love
like they say I love but Im not in love Raoul and Christine HEll Yeah :brow:
Raoul is a crap character, with girly hair and whiny way about him, he whines continiously in the novel, almost forcing Christine to love him, he is as big an manipulator as Erik ever was.
Remember in the movie version "Say you love him and my life is over?" hmm blackmail much another point where was the man with shampoo commercial hair when christine was orphaned, did he care what had happened to her? No he didnt give it another thought in that pretty little emptyheaded brain of his!
Raoul should have died in the torture chamber and done everyone a favour
Erik did lie to Christine in the beginning of their relationship. He lied to her so that she would continue to talk to him, but as soon as possible, he did tell her the truth: that he was not a ghost or angel, but that he was a man. He didn't want her to find out that he was a hideous, deformed freak. Raoul, however, used the fact that he knew Christine to influence her. In the novel, he was a whiny, annoying man, but there was more focus on the fact that he loved Christine. I think Erik's obsessive love was darker, but also more passionate that Raoul's.
I had to to read this book, as it is known well among us as the Literature Choice. It's a good thing it's nicely written. =DD.
Christine is a very interisting character in the book. She's a troubled child who's lost the only family she ever had and now has to grow up. In comes Erik, who in the beginning is a father figure, and in comes Raoul, a man she could love. Turns out that her father figure is in love with her and wants her to love him like a man and not a friend or family. She's disgusted by his figure and actions. Keep in mind, he really is a murderer in the book. In the end Christine is bawling when she say's she'll marry him in order to save Raoul's life. So, no, I'd say she really doesn't love him like he wants her to.
I think she loved him, but not the way she loved raoul. her feelings for erik were probably a mix of fascination, fear, and sympathy. I also think she was a bit masochistic. there was probably a sexual element to is as well(the aforementioned masochism and necrophilia come to mind), despite his appearance and his status as a father-figure. I think she cared for him in a twisted way, but raoul was such a sweet (handsome...wealthy...simple) guy that he was easier to fall back on, although he was a bit whiney (I'll give you that). plus, even poor life with raoul would have been more normal than anything erik could have offered. and she did agree to marry erik and be his faithful wife in order to save raoul, so she must have felt something for him.
I don't quite agree. he did do some pretty bad things during his life; the rosy hours of mazanderan aren't called that for no reason. he also had a torture chamber in his house, and he killed to entertain. he probably did other things too, he was pretty old so he would have had years of practice. regardless of his poor upbringing (or lacktherof) murder (and kidnapping!) is a serious and pretty bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherSnake
he might have gone a bit nuts in the episode of his life chronicled by leroux, and christine forgave him for that, but it doesn't wipe away the other things he did.
I thought she took lessons from him morning and night for six months? I don't consider that 'as soon as possible'. she didn't know he was human until she went down to the house on the lake...(unless you want to hear my more evil take on christine... email me for that.:brow: )Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurek_Waverly
I don't know about in the book... But in the movie she seemed to want him pretty bad... Whereas Raoul was little but a childhood sweetheart who happened to show up. There wasn't much chemistry between Christine & Raoul in the movie... He just seems to be the easy way out.
Whereas with Erik, it seemed like in "Past the Point of No Return" if she didn't take off his mask she would've started making out with him right there...
And, if you consider everything that matters in the big scheme of things (sadly, "true love" isn't really important, especially back then)- Raoul was, sadly, the right choice. I don't know about in the book, but in the movie he was rich, her age, high social class, etc. Erik was a loner old enough to be her father who no one knew beyond "The Phantom" and many wanted him dead. Sad, but true.
I agree. I think in the movie, it was obvious she preferred 'the phantom,' but the wiser and 'better' choice was raoul. like you said, in the movie (and to some extent in the book - if you want to think she liked erik) raoul "just seems to be the easy way out."
In the book she definitely had feelings for Raoul (I just read it). At the masquerade, she seems a bit hurt as well as annoyed that he doesn't trust her anymore. Also, most her interractions with him involve her trying desperately to protect him from the Phantom- who she knew would kill him.
I don't think she loved Erik as much. Maybe at first because he was her teacher, and because of his voice. (she vowed not to marry because of it)
But at the end it didn't seem like she did in that way. I felt the only reason she agreed to marry him was because it seemed like the only way she could save Raoul- not because she loved him. If anything, she was terrified of him.
Also, after the entire ordeal in the torture chamber was over, she was silent as the grave because she didn't want to go through with it, but had to.
Please. I desperately pity your POV. Uh..."Say you love him and my life is over"? I thought it was, "Say you love ME and my life is over." [sarcasm]Yup. Sounds like blackmail to me...[/sarcasm]Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliscrap
Oh, I'm really sorry, too, that Raoul didn't give up his life, his education, his family, traveling, naval training, and everything else to follow Christine around and make sure that nothing bad happened to her. STUPID RAOUL! He deserves to die for that! *rolls eyes*
As for his hair, it was only long in the movie. I actually liked it and thought it made him look handsome. I can't argue with you about that; it's all a matter of tastes and opinions there. But in the book you will remember that he had a mustache. Mustaches are for men, last I checked.
Where was Raoul a manipulator again? I don't remember reading that....
One more thing, please back up your opinions with reasonable facts. It gives the discussion a stable and intelligent base, rather than to say, "RAUL IZ A FOP & DESRVS 2 DI!!"
And now you hate me. But I will die happy knowing that I defended Raoul.
1. "Raoul: Say you love him, and my life is over! " -http://imdb.com/title/tt0293508/quotesQuote:
Originally Posted by Wandering_Child
Just do a ctrl-F for it. He did mean "Say you love him and I have no reason to live".
And I don't think anyone hates you. Although it minorly annoys me that you insult all about that stuff. Yeah, that guy was annoying as heck- but I think it's sweet to think of this great musician who was shunned by everyone, even his own mother, finding love in a diva who can share his passion for music.
It's ridiculous, but it appeals to the romantic in us. I agree whole heartedly that in every version but the musical Raoul and Christine belonged together. But in the '04 version... sorry, I saw no chemistry and Raoul wasn't that great in terms of showing he really cared about her... or had common sense. Who runs into the monster's lair without anything to defend yourself? Though, Christine was worse. All she had to do was get her dress wet to keep Raoul from getting trapped in the first place and she just stood there the entire time.
Erm... Your only defenses come from the movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliscrap
1- in the novel, he never said that- he never had the chance to say anything, he just rushed in to save his love like an idiot in love, which he was.
2- Her mother died when she was 6, but I think her dad only died less then a year before the novel started- and he spent months trying to get her attention, but Christine kept ignoring him.
3- Actually, the only thing he was guilty of isn't "blackmail" but being young and in love. He really cared about Christine and when he found out what Erik had done to her he wanted to leap to her defense. How is that blackmail?
On a side note- what's wrong with girly hair? Half the guys around here are pretty and I think it's nice to see that mix of pretty and male.
Really? I thought that the '04 movie showed much more chemistry than, say, the musical. Raoul was not one of the main characters in the musical, but played a much larger role in the movie. I really liked that. It's useless to argue on this, because once again it's all a matter of opinions and tastes. But I don't think I would waste time trying to find a piece of wood in a burning building full of screaming people when my fiancee has been kidnapped by an insane, homicidal near-rapist...*tee-hee* Poor Erik.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDraconis
Anyways, it just makes me really angry when people have no real opinion, and I can't help but be rather rude to them (rather rude...especially rude, I suppose). If there opinion is something like, "I don't like Raoul very much. He seems rather whiney and it doesn't appear to me that he and Christine have very much in common," I would say good for you and leave them alone (but I would make a comment on my opinion). But if their opinion is, "OMG! LYKE RAUL IZ SOOOOO STOOPID! I HTE HIM SOOO BAD! ND>LYKE HE NEEDS 2 DRWN N ERICK"S LAKE!!!!! :flare: "
Uh, no. I'm sorry. I despise stupid people. It's not something I can change in a blink of an eye, so nobody expect me to be kind and have an intelligent conversation w/ sum1 who types lyk dis.
I think that she did love Erik, just it was more of an obsessive, deep, dark passion-type love and not a sweet, childhood love like she has with Raoul.
P.G.7.
Christine never loved Erik in the book. She loved Raoul. Erik himself confirmed proof of this when he said to Christine, "I know you love the boy". If Christine had loved Erik, that would have been the perfect time to contradict him and tell him her feelings. Instead, however, when she was given her freedom, she hurried away with Raoul. Not slowly walked away or acted like she wanted to stay, she hurried away. She loved Raoul and not Erik.