Aristotle's Poetics

It is amazing how sophisticated Aristotle's analysis of literature, theatre, poetry is and what far reaching influence it has, down to the present day.

faculty.goucher.edu/eng211/aristotle_poetics_examples.htm

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Originally Posted by The Tragic Flaw

A perfect tragedy should imitate complex actions (see #12) that excite pity and fear (#4) while leading a man who is extraordinarily good and just to misfortune by some error of judgment or frailty of character. That "frailty of character" is the famous "tragic flaw" or hamartia , actually something closer to a "tragic imbalance"

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The ancient Greek word, "hamartia", which Aristotle uses for a hero's tragic flaw becomes the sole word used in the Christian New Testament for sin.

Yet, the primordial meaning of "hamartia" comes from the notion of an archer who shoots his arrow but misses the mark; hence, a falling short, or a shortcoming.

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Originally Posted by The Wrong Path

the meaning of the word
Regarding the notion of "sin" in the Bible. In Hebrew, KHATAUAU, in Greek hAMARTIA. The Greek term has the sense of a missing of the goal, or a straying away from the right path.


"Hamartia" brings to mind the image of an archery target "bullseye." The
mark is the exact center of the target. To hit an outer ring is "hamartanein," to miss the mark. Applied to the category of sin, anything less than absolute perfection in performance would be "missing the mark."


The Hebrew word "cHata", on the other hand, is related much more closely to a lifestyle perspective. "Walking the wrong path" is less concerned about individual actions than overall ways of living. I understand that the OT is also
concerned with actions of the individual, but the emphasis seems to be
centered around how a person lives life, not on the specific things that he
or she does. "cHata" reflects this. We see this emphasis also in the Hebrew word for repentance, "shub." "Shub" means "to turn around," which is what one does when correcting for walking the wrong path. The New Testament word, "metanoein" (to repent) also carries the connotation of change,
lit. "changing one's mind," but Hebrew is a more visual language.

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In college, St. John's in Annapolis, I was impressed with the notion that the word "Satan" comes from a word which means "to turn away" or "be misled".

We once had a visiting lecturer from another school spend the entire Friday evening lecturing about "The Apotreptic Moment". "Apotrepsis" is another word that means "turning about".

Socrates would use refutation to back someone into the motionless cul-de-sac of "aporia" or no way out, and sometimes, they would suddenly "turn about" in an apotreptic moment.

I doubt if anyone will ever tire of the Greek thinkers. Its interesting to know that Aristotle was a pupil of PLato who preached (like St. Augustine) that theatre is evil. This is fun.

Greek and Roman analysis is still in use, it really is amazing that our cultures are so intricatly based on ideas of theirs. Western thought is central to their linguistic, historical, mythological, philosophical, political developments

Yes, Simon. I think to some degree, even modern cultures/languages/art/etc, somehow will never able to escape from the Greek and Roman influences..

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Originally Posted by Alfred North Whitehead

All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato.

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i almost always come back to plato and aristotle when writing term papers

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

Yet, the primordial meaning of "hamartia" comes from the notion of an archer who shoots his arrow but misses the mark; hence, a falling short, or a shortcoming

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.

When we were studying Hamlet and Macbeth, we looked at the two plays in terms of Aristotle's triadic concept of tragedy.

Harmatia - The fatal flaw
[the archer missing his mark, exellent hadn't heard that before].
Peripeteia - The Reversal of fortunes
Anagnorisis - The realisation of the error or what has gone wrong.

The Harmatia and the Anagnorisis are usually linked.

Also the effects of 'pity and terror' within the tragedy as stated by Aristotle have a cathartic effect on the audience. At this point Dionysian ritual and purgation came into play. All great fun!

Of course Aristotle was writing in a pre-Christian era and the tragic flaw was not the fault of the 'flawed hero'. Whereas in Shakespearean times responsibility for one's actions was the accepted mode of conduct.

Also worth noting is that Shakespeare ignored Aristotle's 'Unities' of time place and action. The Greek Philosophers and 16th century theatre, what more could you ask for?

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

It is amazing how sophisticated Aristotle's analysis of literature, theatre, poetry is and what far reaching influence it has, down to the present day.

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No one has yet surpassed his literary criticism. He is ruely the finest thinker of understanding literature ever. Why does it surprise you? Just because it was so long ago doesn't make it less worthy.

I have found that trying to find classical 5-part Greek dramatic structure in the novels I read often leads to positive results and also to a more satisfying understanding of the plot and theme for the book.

Walter: I have found that trying to find classical 5-part Greek dramatic structure in the novels I read often leads to positive results and also to a more satisfying understanding of the plot and theme for the book.
Would this be Gustav Freytag's concept of the 5-part Greek structure? Curious about the 5-part structure of which I have little knowledge and would like to know more if you would take the time. I also like to apply stuctures to analysis of cultural production. Haven

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Originally Posted by Haven

Walter: I have found that trying to find classical 5-part Greek dramatic structure in the novels I read often leads to positive results and also to a more satisfying understanding of the plot and theme for the book.
Would this be Gustav Freytag's concept of the 5-part Greek structure? Curious about the 5-part structure of which I have little knowledge and would like to know more if you would take the time. I also like to apply stuctures to analysis of cultural production. Haven

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As far as I know it underlies the original classical greek dramas/tragedies and must have come out of Aristotle's Poetics, as a guess. I'll scare up a link at least to what the five parts are.
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Har! Live and learn! There was something that Aristotle did not know, if one can imagine such a thing! :D Wikipedia definitely gives the honor to Freytag:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure

Here also, just for the fun of it, is a computer gaming view, saying a lot else about diverse plot structures:

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/colu...ly02apr01.html

But thank you very much for directing my attention to Freytag, instead of Aristotle.:blush:
Very much indebted to you,
Walter

No seriously Walter, I wan't sure myself on that score, so thanks for taking the time and have saved the rpg site 'Thinking Virtually' looked interesting. Think Freytag might prove useful in next lit analysis, but will run past my tutor first, he's a bit of an Aristotle/Greek freak. Keep your tutors happy, is my motto. H.

Definitely keep your tutors happy! LOL
But it does definitely sharpen up one's way of looking at a text -- "now just where shall I say is that transition between rising action and climax?"
Great fun.

Hey, I just found a brilliant article by Umberto Eco called The Poetics and Us in his collection, On Literature. If anyone can find a softcopy on the WWW, post it here, coz it's a great study of the book!

I think an excellent passage in the Poetics which also clarifies the idea of literature (against Romantic views I'm afraid) is the one that assures poets don't write to improve anything (reality?) neither to tell the truth. They write because it is a tradition, as Xenofanes said, again paraphrasing, that is a usual thing, a human habit.

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

It is amazing how sophisticated Aristotle's analysis of literature, theatre, poetry is and what far reaching influence it has, down to the present day.

faculty.goucher.edu/eng211/aristotle_poetics_examples.htm



The ancient Greek word, "hamartia", which Aristotle uses for a hero's tragic flaw becomes the sole word used in the Christian New Testament for sin.

Yet, the primordial meaning of "hamartia" comes from the notion of an archer who shoots his arrow but misses the mark; hence, a falling short, or a shortcoming.




In college, St. John's in Annapolis, I was impressed with the notion that the word "Satan" comes from a word which means "to turn away" or "be misled".

We once had a visiting lecturer from another school spend the entire Friday evening lecturing about "The Apotreptic Moment". "Apotrepsis" is another word that means "turning about".

Socrates would use refutation to back someone into the motionless cul-de-sac of "aporia" or no way out, and sometimes, they would suddenly "turn about" in an apotreptic moment.

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I think an excellent passage in the Poetics which also clarifies the idea of literature (against Romantic views I'm afraid) is the one that assures poets don't write to improve anything (reality?) neither to tell the truth. They write because it is a tradition, as Xenofanes said, again paraphrasing, that is a usual thing, a human habit.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

No one has yet surpassed his literary criticism. He is ruely the finest thinker of understanding literature ever. Why does it surprise you? Just because it was so long ago doesn't make it less worthy.

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This is not a fair judgement. If by no one you meant in Greece I do not argue. If you say no one all over the world I will have to say you have little knowledge of world literature, particularly of ancient world literature. Greece and Latin literature enjoyed the privilege of publicity does not mean there were not other greater literary critics in other world literature. Ancient or modern Aristotle is not unsurpassed. Ancient and even medieval eastern literature is matchless in so many ways. Sanskrit is the mother of even so many European languages and Sanskrit scholars were matchless critics. However I reserve judgement to say they were greater critics than the Greeks or the Greeks the greater. It is like seeing one part of the mountain. Who knows the other unseen part of the mountain may be more beautiful. We have to explore.

No doubt Virgil but....

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Originally Posted by Virgil

No one has yet surpassed his literary criticism. He is ruely the finest thinker of understanding literature ever. Why does it surprise you? Just because it was so long ago doesn't make it less worthy.

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....maybe, just maybe I repeat, Harold Bloom. His analysis, his canon has helped me a lot to understand what must be considered written art and what not, and, on my opinion again, as important as that, which writers look the greatest ones but they are not so. Few writers are saved by his analysis, the core of the canon. When I read why I got another perspective that has been helping me a lot with my actual reading matters. Personally and finally, I found brilliant the concept of School of Resentment.