Man this book is hard!

Hello to all fellow Literature Network users.
This is my first time posting here (although I've been a silent observer for a long long time)

I find this matter an adequate one to break my LN forum virginity.

As you might guess, I love classic literature, I've become aware of this beautiful world from age 15 (I'm 21 now) and I've had the pleasure of delving into the works of giants such as Dickens, Twain, Alcott, Pushkin and (my favourite by far) Dostoevsky.

Therefore, knowing whole heartedly that I was up for a challenge, I decided to read the massive Ulysses, by James Joyce.

Man this book is hard!
I'm currently halfway through it, and I think I've bitten more than I can chew.
I believe, not unreasonably, that the time period differences and the MASSIVE cultural differences (I come from the other side of the world), make this book pretty much vastly uncomprehensible to me.
This has caused me sour feelings, but oh well... I'll survive.

Upcoming challenge: Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert.

Just wanted to hear from you guys if there was any book that you felt pretty lost through.

Commiseration is bliss!

You will fine Mme. Bovary an easy change from Ulysses. There are plenty of discussions here on Joyce's puzzle, if you search it you will find some good stuff. It is the cultural and literary allusions that tend to make it very difficult - and the play with language. My only advice is to seek out some help during a first read and then, some time later, read it again. It is a novel that really does grow on you the more you read it.

Everybody finds Ulysses hard, don't worry. The Russian books started confusing me at first because of all the names but when you get used to it, they're not bad. Some of them are epic.

must get around to reading that myself at some point

the only book i ever completely gave up on because of being totally lost with it was a book on Descartes key philosophical writings, not a good start for those new to philosophy.

i found Dostoevsky's books a bit tough at times yet i held through, the Idiot i found very hard to finish just because i found the story very boring and couldn't see the point to it all. the Brothers Karamazov while being difficult both for its length and complicated parts i got through ok and Crime and Punishment wasn't too hard at all to read and is my favorite of the three i have so far read.

Joyce was so hard, so hard, that the shipment of his books to America had to be burned. As it usually happened with hard to read books to protect from hardness. LMAO. Otherwise it might have been too easy.

Ulysses is definitely top of my list of hard novels that I couldn't read. I've tried wading through it three times in the last thirty years, with no joy. The last time I'd read most of his earlier works, and the standard biography, but was still lost. (I really enjoyed "Dubliners" and "Portrait"... )

Why are you feeling sour? Some people think it's a 'must read' novel that tops their list, but you don't have to agree with them. Your 'world of literature' will not collapse if you can't read it, it's just a small corner, a hard rock climb... I prefer gentle strolling...

There are hundreds of other great novels, and, like me, you appear to be enjoying most of them. That's enough, surely? Why get sour because you don't like one or two on the list? As you like the Russians why not try Tolstoy and Chekhov? They are wonderful!

I liked Madame Bovary. But be careful of the French, Proust is another author I couldn't get a handle on, and Sartre is problematic...

Cafolini,the reason why Ulysses was banned was because it was judged to be obscene.Its not very hard to understand but it takes patience ,an open mind and a few handy reference notes etc.The one joyce book where he really went for it was Finnegans Wake which is like a dream within a dream within dream where the river of language meets the river of history and where the narrative is more like " sensed" music made of splicing different languages into together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenwickS

Hello to all fellow Literature Network users.
This is my first time posting here (although I've been a silent observer for a long long time)

I find this matter an adequate one to break my LN forum virginity.

As you might guess, I love classic literature, I've become aware of this beautiful world from age 15 (I'm 21 now) and I've had the pleasure of delving into the works of giants such as Dickens, Twain, Alcott, Pushkin and (my favourite by far) Dostoevsky.

Therefore, knowing whole heartedly that I was up for a challenge, I decided to read the massive Ulysses, by James Joyce.

Man this book is hard!
I'm currently halfway through it, and I think I've bitten more than I can chew.
I believe, not unreasonably, that the time period differences and the MASSIVE cultural differences (I come from the other side of the world), make this book pretty much vastly uncomprehensible to me.
This has caused me sour feelings, but oh well... I'll survive.

Upcoming challenge: Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert.

Just wanted to hear from you guys if there was any book that you felt pretty lost through.

Commiseration is bliss!

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Not lost, but bored to distraction with Kafka's The Trial; it's one of the few books that I gave up on halfway through.
I have just finished reading Evelyn Waugh's complete short stories and wondering what I should read next. Perhaps I will pop along to Foyles in Charing X Road tomorrow and sort something out but it won't be anything by Joyce because I don't like unnecessarily obscurantist writers.

The end of Steppenwolf. Wtf?

Madame Bovary isn't a hard book at all. Do yourself a favor and get a well regarded translation-- preferably something recent. This reader suggests Lydia Davis' translation...

because the quality of translation can make or break a reading experience, something this reader discovered after reading no less than six translations of Plato's dialogues; the newest translation in contemporary english was most clear and heartbreakingly beautiful.









J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VERONIQUE

Cafolini,the reason why Ulysses was banned was because it was judged to be obscene.Its not very hard to understand but it takes patience ,an open mind and a few handy reference notes etc.The one joyce book where he really went for it was Finnegans Wake which is like a dream within a dream within dream where the river of language meets the river of history and where the narrative is more like " sensed" music made of splicing different languages into together.

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In those days, they had obscenity coming in and out of their ears. They had so much to ban if that were the case. Joyce was banned because the book made a big, easy to read impact. So you are agreeing with the freaks that it was banned because of obscenity. LMAO.

I've never had any desire to read Ulysses.

cafolini, Ulysses was banned because it was the 1920s it was puritanism which ruled the law.Ulysses was proscecuted for obscenity.I did not say I agreed with this or give a damn either way but we are talking about the 20s here .Secondly it was banned for a while because a court case of pornography was brought against it not because it had a big easy to read impact,thats ridiculous and hilariour. Emil Miller ,you think Joyce is an unnecessarily obscurantist writer,? thats interesting and hes not, and Kafka is a very interesting sometimes difficult writer.I will probably leve this thread as some people here are not too educated and I dont like wasting mt time with morons.AND I am a writer as well by the way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VERONIQUE

cafolini, Ulysses was banned because it was the 1920s it was puritanism which ruled the law.Ulysses was proscecuted for obscenity.I did not say I agreed with this or give a damn either way but we are talking about the 20s here .Secondly it was banned for a while because a court case of pornography was brought against it not because it had a big easy to read impact,thats ridiculous and hilariour. Emil Miller ,you think Joyce is an unnecessarily obscurantist writer,? thats interesting and hes not, and Kafka is a very interesting sometimes difficult writer.I will probably leve this thread as some people here are not too educated and I dont like wasting mt time with morons.AND I am a writer as well by the way

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Well I know that Joyce's Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man are said to be easier to read than Ulysses, but Finnegan's Wake is written in a deliberately obscure manner. I did not find The Trial difficult but, as I said, tedious, and because I was reading it in German it wasn't a case of poor translation that led me to that conclusion. I am also a writer and have written three novels and am considering a fourth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VERONIQUE

cafolini, Ulysses was banned because it was the 1920s it was puritanism which ruled the law.Ulysses was proscecuted for obscenity.I did not say I agreed with this or give a damn either way but we are talking about the 20s here .Secondly it was banned for a while because a court case of pornography was brought against it not because it had a big easy to read impact,thats ridiculous and hilariour. Emil Miller ,you think Joyce is an unnecessarily obscurantist writer,? thats interesting and hes not, and Kafka is a very interesting sometimes difficult writer.I will probably leve this thread as some people here are not too educated and I dont like wasting mt time with morons.AND I am a writer as well by the way

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If you don't give a damn either way, why are you so interested in this. The rolling twenties were days of puritanism? LMAO. The shipment was burned upfront, not simply banned by a court decision that could be appealed. Also, there might be a lot of obscurantists in this forum, and many do not lack education and are not morons as you put it. And that you or Miller are writers remains to be shown.
"History is a nightmare from which I'm trying to wake up." J. Joyce, 1922. That's the subject of the book; a rich exploration of its dimensions. Puritanism didn't have a hold on the roaring tweties. Prohibitions came as maffia fights. Solong, time waster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Well I know that Joyce's Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man are said to be easier to read than Ulysses, but Finnegan's Wake is written in a deliberately obscure manner. I did not find The Trial difficult but, as I said, tedious, and because I was reading it in German it wasn't a case of poor translation that led me to that conclusion. I am also a writer and have written three novels and am considering a fourth.

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Dubliners is pretty straightforward reading for the most part. There are a few stories where a gnomon is at play, such as the masturbation scene in 'An Encounter' and pretty much the entire story 'Clay'; also, some of the stories are quite metaphorically dense, such as 'The Dead'. And of course the repeatedly utilised epiphany--

but they're perfectly clear, readable stories whether or not you understand these things. Dubliners is the best thing he wrote.

Jack of Hearts recommends:

'Araby'
'Eveline'
'The Dead'







J



EDIT: This poster used to have a short story based on 'Eveline' in the short story subforum, if any Joyce fans want to see somebody make a mess... go search.