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Ok, I wanted to discuss, and hear other peoples take on this poem.
FROM
The Elephant is Slow to Mate
The elephant, the huge old beast,
is slow to mate;
he finds a female, they show no haste
they wait
for the sympathy in their vast shy hearts
slowly, slowly to rouse
as they loiter along the river-beds
and drink and browse
....
http://www.poets.org/m/dsp_poem.php?prmMID=15346
by D.H. Lawrence
Ok, I dont know about poetic devices etc so cant discuss them - but I will give my take on the poem's meaning.
I think it is referring to people who are insecure/not confident and despite what they want being right in front of them are unwilling/able to make an attempt to claim it. Similar in some respects to the song Fluorescent Lights by The Webb Brothers.
Quote:
I'd ask her to dance but I cant even stand
As good as my girl if I'll just take her hand
She's been on the scene and she's probably clean
And I wanna take her home
It's 3 in the morning she's lovely
But ugly to me
In flurorescent lights we'd be sickening to see
Nights are routine here in purgatory
Painless for you, thats perfect for me
I have to think about this, but I know this poem well. I just have to get my thoughts together; I am pressed for time right now. I know a great deal about Lawrence, his life and his attitudes on life and sex, from my reading, so I think I can add something worthwhile to this discussion. For now I can but say that Lawrence believed in the natural world and it's importance. I don't know if he was directly making a reference to humans in this poem, but he was keenly observing the natural animal kingdom (of which humans are a part, of course) and the natural order of things, as opposed to the intellectual notion we project on life. I can hopefully explain this better when I have more time. I like the poem very much. He also wrote a tortoise poem you might want to check out Ktd 222. I think there was a prior discussion on this site about it, but I don't know the exact thread. Lawrence also believed in monogomous love and relationships, so I think this poem somehow reflects that notion. While reading it I did think in human terms, as well. I am hoping that Virgil will comment, also. I will let him know of this thread.
Oh, this is a wonderful poem. But I will hold off commenting. I do know Lawrence well, so I would like others to join in. Come on and let's talk about this. :)
Hi Virgil :wave: Glad you found this thread. Yes, this poem is one of his best. Why won't you comment yet? I was waiting for your keen ideas and comments.
Did you start a thread for the short story/stories? Don't want to forget what I read. Read "Things" two nights ago. What did you think? J
Well, I wanted people to give ideas before I step into the water. OK, here's something as a start. Notice how Lawrence uses long vowels and an odd line length to project the slow ponderous walking of the elephant:Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Quote:
The elephant, the huge old beast,
is slow to mate;
he finds a female, they show no haste
they wait
for the sympathy in their vast shy hearts
slowly, slowly to rouse
as they loiter along the river-beds
and drink and browse
Yes, I've read it twice. I don't have time to start a thread right now, but perhaps later tonight or tomorrow night, if that is alright with you. I do want to discuss that with you. I liked the story.Quote:
Did you start a thread for the short story/stories? Don't want to forget what I read. Read "Things" two nights ago. What did you think? J
Hi Kilted, I don't think I agree with you at all about insecurity. If you take the stanza:
Oldest they are and the wisest of beasts
so they know at last
how to wait for the loneliest of feasts
for the full repast.
This does not reflect to me insecurity at all, but rather a willingness to wait for "the full repast". Patient the elephant is and for being so he enjoys the full sensuality of the consumation of their longing and desire. "wisest of beasts" would not indicate insecurity, as your lyrics seem to express. The elephant is not inept in love-making but in Lawrence's view a master of it. He lets the desire grow slowly before acting. I find the poem very beautiful in it's naturalism.
I would be interested in knowing others views on the line "loneliest of feasts" within this same stanza.
Virgil, we must have been writing the post the same time. I am glad you brought up the form of the poem. Yes, good observation. How in tune with nature and it's rhythms was Lawrence! Amazing the spacing and so graphic and artistic to portray the slow persistent pace of the elephant.
Glad you liked the short story. Anytime that is convenient for you is fine.
If this stanza was taken alone I may be enclined to agree with you, but taken in contaxt with the rest of the poem especially # 1,2,3 & 6 I think it adds to the idea that the elephant waits too long and then the passion and desire is gone and they mate out of loneliness and in the end fear of being alone instead of for love/passionQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Regarding "loneliness of feasts": I see it as lonely as there is no passion/fire (possibly even love?) there
Virgil? Since the poem is about waiting and showing patience before mating, I saw the long vowel sounds, and uneven line lengths, seemingly stetching out, then halted in the next line, to show the elephant's patience for the gradual build up of desire to mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Kilted, who is to say what is too long to wait? Lawrence is merely observing the natural order of things in the animal kingdom, which can be carried over to man. Rashness could only bring disappointment in not waiting for the right moment and the building up of the desire, as he describes it here in his poem....thus "the full repast".
Knowing Lawrence's background your last line would not make sense to his philosophy.
You stated -
This absolutely does not fit Lawrence and his idea of what true passion is. In my mind the poem is saying the elephants pair off and wait for the right moment of desire. They show great patience and therefore partake of the passion fully and there coupling is a full consumation.Quote:
then the passion and desire is gone and they mate out of loneliness and in the end fear of being alone instead of for love/passion"
Yes, good point. Perhaps both. I think elephants are patient looking animals, while being ponderous. I agree with Janine; I do think that Lawrence is after a sense of naturalism. What we have is a very naturalistic event described within the context of Lawrence's values (more on that later). I know today we have sex all over, but this (writing a poem on animals having sex) was uncommon in Lawrence's day. Remember they didn't have Wild Kingdom broadcast on TV showing all sorts of creatures mating. I imagine there is a certain shock factor for Lawrence's audience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktd222
Yes, that’s right. But maybe for these elephants the idea of mating is not about desire, or love, for this act of mating can be perceived as one in which is used to fulfill individual “needs.” So knowing this, the elephants seem to be allowing their hearts to both become “full of desire,” and by the same processes of “waiting for their hearts to grow full of desire,” that part of “desire,” maybe the “fire” in the alternate line, is extinguished, so that that “loneliest of feast” can be experienced in another way.Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
Oldest they are and the wisest of beasts
so they know at last
how to wait for the loneliest of feasts
for the full repast.
And I find it strange that mating is being compared to a feasts to be consumed, or taken as food(repast). And I find it even stranger that I can’t identify if these beasts are the ones consuming this feasts, or the feasts is consuming them. Do any of you get that sense? In a way the act of waiting till one’s heart “grows full of desire” flips the act of mating so the consumers of this feasts becomes consumed by the feasts.
Ok, that’s my take on this stanza 6, any other opinions or ideas?
I do agree as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Let me provide a little background on Lawrence's ideas. In a letter to Bertrand Russell, the philosopher, Lawrence put forth the central thesis of his ideas. I think if you understand this paragragh, you understand 50% of D.H. Lawrence. Please excuse any typos, I had to type this out myself.
Let me also say that Russell felt completely insulted by this letter and pretty much ended his friendship with Lawrence.Quote:
From 8 December 1915 letter to Bertrand Russell,
page 470 of The Letters of D.H. Lawrence: June 1913-October 1916.
I have been reading Frazer’s Golden Bough and Totemism and Exogamy. Now I am convinced of what I believed when I was about twenty—that there is another seat of consciousness than the brain and nerve system: there is a blood-consciousness which exists in us independently of the ordinary mental consciousness, which depends on the eye as its source or connector. There is the blood-consciousness, with the sexual connection, holding the same relation as the eye, in seeing, holds to the mental consciousness. One lives, knows, and has one’s being in the blood, without any reference to nerves and brain. This is one half of life, belonging to the darkness. And the tragedy of this our life, and of your life, is that the mental and nerve consciousness exerts a tyranny over the blood-consciousness, and that your will has gone completely over to the mental consciousness, and is engaged in the destruction of your blood-being or blood-consciousness, the final liberating of the one, which is only death in result. Plato was the same. Now it is necessary for us to realise that there is this other great half of our life active in the darkness, the blood-relationship: that when I see, there is a connection between my mental-consciousness and an outside body, forming a precept; but at the same time, there is a transmission through the darkness which is never absent from the light, into my blood-consciousness: but in seeing, the blood-percept is not strong. On the other hand, when I take a woman, then the blood-percept is supreme, my blood-knowing is overwhelming. There is a transmission, I don’t know of what, between her blood and mine, in the act of connection. So that afterwards, even if she goes away, the blood-consciousness persists between us, when the mental consciousness is suspended; and I am formed then by my blood-consciousness, not by my mind or nerves at all.
Now how do you read this poem, given this context?