Printable View
Basically what I preach is what I said in my post. I am against revenge, like I said. When I said it's hard for me to practice what I preach, I meant that it's hard for me to not want to attempt revenge, because it's just so easy to do it. Wouldn't it be so easy to kill someone who killed your best friend?Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
Good on you, I completely agree with your views. I believe that when we revenge, our acts make us no different to the offencer that had committed evil. Therefore it makes us equally evil.
Aren't we getting off track here? The question is whether revenge is a good thing or a bad thing. The context to which you apply this is not so relevant as the question itself. Is it? Do you think there is an event, topic or instance where it is justified in one area but not in another? What tosh! Religion smigeon! The question has as much standing as an infantile nursing of revenge against bully jones in the school yard who pulled our pigtails till we cried.
What about considering the self is greater than the hurts inflicted against us and rising above them? One does not need to even forgive the perpetrator of those infringements. We simply need to find peace within. One of the more interesting pursuits in life really. That does involve letting go. It takes energy to hate. We have to feed it, stoke it to keep the fire burning because if we don't, it will dissipate. That is a choice we make in our own life and something which the other person who 'wronged' us has nothing to do with. This ultimately means any ongoing need for revenge is our problem and nobody else's. We become the self-harmer of our own being, our own negative energy, aura, presence and other people who are around us feel it. Bully jones certainly doesn't.
This is of course a considered opinion. My journey is too interesting to be hampered by self-inflicted bullcrap
How are we going off track? We are discussing on why we think that revenge is good or bad and we are stating why we agree or disagree with someone as a discussion. All our discussion is about one thing, whether we think revenge is a good or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
I think that your post is most off track infact. Your views is rather pivoting around whether revenge is necessary or not. So what is your overall view in revenge, is it good or bad?
For your further clarification, I don't support revenge. Especially when revenge is sought upon me or loved ones for things they did.
I'm tired of hearing about the death sentence as justice. If somebody killed my child....It's human to react this way. A desire to avenge those who harmed your loved is part of the grieving process. It is a component - not the be all and end all of who we are.
Imagine instead that your child is the perpetrator. Your desire for mercy and compassion would be just as strong. It is human to react this way too. Understanding that we must be accountable for our actions, we would not light torches and lead a mob to their door.
I hope this makes sense.
I agree that revenge should not supported and that death sentences should be eliminated from being recognised as justice. However I have to disagree that it is not human to take another's life away. Being human does not mean we are a bad species however murderers must be considered as bad, what ever the murder's reasons are. Being human does not call the idea that we can kill each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
Religion also premotes violence and war.Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
You can say all you want that Relgion is good and inspires good, and denounces revenge. But you know the old saying actions speak louder then words?
Well the events of both history and present day speak louder then your idealogy
If I had a child that killed another in pure cold blood, or if they were responsible for another's death directly because they were acting irresponsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
Then they would deserve to day, regardless of my personal feelings, that does not change the deed that has been done, and I would not support their actions or plead for them. They would have to be held responsible for the choice they made.
That does not mean I would want them to die, but what I would want has nothing to do with it and I would not think the harmed party were evil or bad for wanting the death of my child if they suffered becasue of him/her.
Interesting topic. Revenge is most likely necessary. Not because it serves a purpose but it satisfies a sense of justice people have. Consider capital punishment. It does nothing for the victim of the crime perpetrated since most likely the victim is dead therefore punishing the culprit only relieves the need the for justice of those that survive the victims death. Revenge can also serve as a deterrant for the acts that disrupt a cohesive society. Therefore IMO revenge definately a good thing.
I don't think the family or friends would be evil either Dark Muse. My point is their wants are no greater than yours and if you say your wants have nothing to do with your loved one, why should their wants have anything to do with their loved one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Becasue they are the ones who are truly the injured party. Something my loved one did, directly casued them pain and grief. And for me I am taking the wants and feelings of both sides out of it. And stating simply that for one life, it is justified to take another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
If a loved one of mine murdered another person, for that it would be justice for them to die. I really would have no right to exepct otherwise.
But those that have been injured would have a right to exepct the person guilty to pay the price.
I don't disagree with you that people would respond in this way. It goes without saying that people react and on an emotional level too when they feel they have been wronged. My point is that their feelings in the matter are not more relevant than the mother, say of the perpertrator who has committed the wrong. This is the human factor. What a person wants, especially at the emotional level in this scenario does not make it right or even just.
The question is not about the rights of those who have been injured but whether revenge, not justice is a good thing. It is just to hold people accountable for their actions.
Perhaps a clear distinction between revenge and justice is needed.
Furthermore, as far as revenge goes, if my son sexually molested a six year old then is it just for his six year old son to be molested?
I had explained this once previously in the thread, but sense you are new to the discussion I shall explain again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
An Eye for an Eye, in the case of revenge is not meant to be taken to the letter literally, no one with any common sense would.
But it simply means that the revenge must be equal to the harm given.
i.e. the rule of an eye for an eye, does not mean it is ok to shoot someone because they verbally insulted you. That would be a clear overreaction.
So that does not mean that if a person molests a child their child then should be molested. Revenge should only be acted out directly against the individually responsible, I do not support hurting innocent people in the name of revenge. The molesters child has nothing to do with the actions of his father.
But I do think it would be perfectly just to kill a man who molested your kid. I see in situations of rape and molestation murder being a justifiable response. I have always believe that Rape and Molestation should qualify for the death penalty in a court of law.
Revenge is a materialized emotion. We feel victimized and distraught when someone harms us or a loved one. So, we think it makes sense to 'return the favour' -- an eye for an eye. But this achieves nothing, other than maybe a petty sense of self worth. It usually further escalates into a bigger and more heated feud. It's usually how fights start -- one guy punches another guy in a bar. The other guy punches back, and so it continues. The cops come and they are both arrested. What have they gained?
Even in the most dire of circumstances, such as the murder of your family, revenge is not worth carrying out. It is more of an immediate, blood-lust emotion rather than a sensible one. That does not mean everyone should be completely passive. Stand your ground, be assertive and establish yourself as a person. You aren't doing that when you take revenge on somebody.
"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind" -- Mohatma Gandhi
(Still, I don't completely hate revenge. It makes good stories >_>)