---- it, you've converted me.
Now I will recieve my rewards.
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---- it, you've converted me.
Now I will recieve my rewards.
I've stayed off this thread on purpose, but in reading over the posts I wonder if I made the right decision. Most of you seem to be genuinely interested in discussing things. Psyche, sadly, many people do feel that way about religion. My two cents: It's not to be used as a fire escape. Christ went to the common man and woman, those society had kicked out, and the established church of His day jumped all over Him. But who needs the love of God more, the people in the church or the ones who may never darken a door? Remember the story Jesus told of the shepherd with 99 sheep in the fold and one lost. He will go after the one. I say to you that there is much difference between religion and salvation! Not everyone who attends church really has God working in their life. That makes it hard on people who are trying to use Christ as an example, and show the love of God to everyone, regardless. If I cannot feel for someone, if I have no compassion for what they go through, if all I do is stand around and condemn them, how can I ever expect them to trust me to help them? The best sermon you'll ever preach is the way you act and the way you live; the way you treat others.... :angel: :nod: :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycheinaboat
Agreed, Pen.... :thumbs_up:
Thanks for the support, Adelheid. Always appreciated. :thumbs_up :angel:
Don't know why I'm chiming in, again, but I am. I would first like to say to Ancestor that I have great respect for you, and each one of your posts is beautiful and kind and wise, even when you get frustrated. You have not said anything I would consider offensive, in fact I wish I was as patient with others as you.
I also believe that everyone's belief is right. Not "right" meaning "correct," but "right" meaning "valid." Until I was 16 or 17 I was a very spiritual person, and felt in my heart a deep connection with God. And that was right, because it was a belief that I honestly felt in my heart, and I did charitable things and tried to love others and to appreciate all the beautiful things in the world. Now I no longer feel in my heart that there is a God, and no amount of prayer or reflection or church attendence is going to change that, but that is also right, because it is what I honestly feel, and I am not a worse person for it. I just lost faith, and now I wish I could be agnostic and say, "Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't"—in fact, I'm striving toward that kind of acceptance,—but I can't truthfully say I'm agnostic, because I can't help believing that God just doesn't exist. I can't help it anymore than I could once have made myself not believe. It's just something that is either there or it isn't. And you know what? I still do charitable works, and I try not to hate others and to appreciate all the beautiful things in the world, and to do my best to make the bad better again. I do it because that, to me, is the purpose of life.
I did lose my faith when I became depressed, and I am still very depressed, for over five years now, but it was not because I felt God had wronged me somehow. Declaring oneself an atheist because "God would not allow such suffering in the world" seems like a very shallow argument to me. I think there is suffering in the world because human beings are the way we are; people will always misunderstand and hate one another, things will not always go the way we wish, viruses and bacteria and genetics will cause some people to be diseased, and endless other reasons, none of which have any basis in whether or not a higher power created them. I am depressed because the chemicals/electro-magnetic impulses in my head don't work right. I'm grateful for all the good things I have, I care deeply about other people, I am hopeful for the future, but the chemicals in the brain that trigger happiness in other people just don't work in mine. *shrug* It's not God's fault, and it's not a result of not believing in God; just is.
When people say they don't believe in God "because he let this bad thing happen to me," it is, to me, the ultimate example of belief. You can't hate something if you don't believe it's there. It is an example of refusing to worship God out of feelings of revenge, but is in itself a very sincere expression of faith.
How did I let another post of mine get so long? :confused: Sorry, folks. I'll conclude. Oh, afterlife: No, I don't believe there is such a thing as a spirit, so I don't believe it can continue on after the body is dead. I think what we feel as consciousness is the result of electro-magnetic activity in the brain, and when the brain dies, consciousness disappears, and that is the end of that. It doesn't make me sad; it makes death in general less sad to me, actually, I don't know why. It's less like someone leaving, and more like something being over and done.
Okay, so that's what this atheist is like. I hope it's helpful, somehow.
EDIT: I'd like to comment on how respectful and peaceful this area of the forum has become since the last time I was here. :) It seems it used to be all fighting and name-calling and no one really listening, and I love it this way. Thank you, everyone, for the effort and respect it takes to keep such discussions peaceful, even when some people try to turn it into a fight. I love and respect all of you!
I am an atheist and believe completely in nothingness after death. Surely it's the most likely outcome. "Preposterous"...how so? I think that it's quite arrogant of humans to be unable to accept that we're not part of some great scheme.
If you believe your time alive is limited to that on Earth then you certainly want to make the most of it!
ME
The most of it ...in what way?Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-eustace
I finally found out the difference between these 2 words. They are not the same, even though people link them to go hand in hand.
agnosticism means ignorance, the belief that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
atheisticism is really the belief that there's no God.
That's the difference.... you get it?
I don't know that I would word it that way, the word "ignorance" is such a harsh word. Beside the agnostic person believes that he or she is right. The word I would use is "doubt". The agnostic doubts the existence of God. It's a grey area. Maybe. Maybe not. I believe the Hebrew word is "timshel" meaning "it may be". An atheist has made his/her mind up that God does not exist, but the agnostic is still thinking, leaning towards the "not" camp, but with enough doubt to not go there. I put it like this sometimes: There are three, perhaps four, kinds of believers. Unbelievers--those who choose to believe there is no God. Believers--those who choose to believe in God. Make-believers--those who try to fool people into thinking they believe in God. And doubters--those who are genuinely unsure. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelheid
I would say "ignorance" is a harsh word, it has many negative connotations, someone here is bound to take exception to it :)
Emily, I am sorry you have been dealing with depression. Have you read The Noonday Demon by Andrew Solomon? It was published in 2001, but I think it is still relevant today as one of the most respected books ever written about depression.
I haven't read that, Logos. Thanks for the suggestion! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
Atheism is the lack of a belief in a deity. Agnosticism is the belief that the presence of a deity can neither be proven NOR disproven. At least, that's my take on it. There is therefore some overlap, in which I fit.
It's ironic that, to hear some people tell it, the world is divided into Christians and Blasphemous Heathens (in which case, I have a BHA meeting next weekend). Even more ironic is how it took a Christian to make me a confirmed atheist. To use a mildly bizarre metaphor: I was standing on the Dock of Indecision, dipping my toes in the Sea of Atheism. It was a Christian who put me in concrete overshoes and pushed me off.
It's kind of a long story, but the main point is that a Christian missionary/youth group leader was speaking, and referred to Buddhism/Judaism/Confucianism/Islam/any non-Christian religion as "fairy-tale religions." Of course, this rubbed me the wrong way--what was worse was when, upon finding out I was an atheist, he promptly sought me out afterwards and began questioning my (non-)belief as if I'd entered the room through a smoking hole in the ground.
I came into this thread kind of late, so I apologize if what follows is somewhat haphazard and hackneyed.
Atheism is more a category than a specific form of belief. Trying to ask "What do atheists believe?" is no less ludicrous than asking "What do theists believe?"
What really busts my buttons is when people assume that atheism precludes morality, or worse, when people ask an atheist, "So nothing matters and I can do anything I want, no matter how immoral, and I won't ever be punished?" as if they think that asking the question will provoke instant conversion. One of my favorite phrases to use is, "It's not like I decided to be an atheist so I could sleep in on Sundays after Saturday night orgies"--for some reason, that conveys the desired message quite nicely, if I do say so myself.
Okay, that about does it for me for now. If anyone has any questions about my personal beliefs (and I stress "personal"), please feel free to ask, although I imagine it's somewhat egocentric of me to assume that people will significantly care.
Maybe this sounds rough, but have I not said time and again that the best sermon you preach is how you live and act, and the way you treat others? Attitude counts for a lot. As in sales, presentation counts for a lot. Sharing and caring means more than trying to force things down people's throats. :angel:
Well I became an atheist for the very reason that I would be able to have endless orgies (preferrably with Christian girls) and live an otherwise debauched lifestyle. Also, when you're an atheist you get to be smart and have your own opinions.
I can't tell--is he kidding?
If not, I'm guessing his anthem is "Only the Good Die Young" by Billy Joel.