Yes, wait until Holden explains.
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Yes, wait until Holden explains.
All right! I will be waiting…
Loved the book though; it is in my top 10 favorite books now.
Can anyone help me with ideas of how to argue whether or not The Catcher in the Rye should be banned for public high schools?
Thanks is advance
I believe the main cause for banning it was obscenity, profanity, etc, specifically the f-word.
Which is ironic because the context in which the f-word is used is one in which Holden is actually disgusted with the word being scribbled seemingly everywhere, especially where little kids can see it.
The case for not banning it? This one should be fairly clear. Book banning/burning is an authoritarian, extremist religious practice that no civilized country should allow.
I'm not sure if it's still being banned today.
They should ban the people who ban the books!
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Once you find a reason to ban one book you open the gates and suddenly there are reasons to ban others. If people decide not to read a book for a particular reason so be it I respect that, but don't decide what I should read and why.
Is this an essay question, or are you doing it as part of a debate team or something like that?
If you have a choice over which argument to make (which your initial post seems to indicate), then you should definitely be arguing that it should not be banned, not just because it is the correct viewpoint (which it is of course), but because it is the easiest to argue. Historical precedent will overwhelmingly support you when it comes to the effects/results of book banning- just take a look at the kind of literature that has been subject to banning; usually you will find it is amongst the best literature written.
And always remember the famous Heinrich Heine line: "Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn people."
Yes it is an essay question. I planned to argue that it shouldn't be banned. I was going to make the point that it appeals to the real life experiences of a highschool student. Also that it is a classic such as what you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEEMAN
Any other good points on why it should NOT be banned?
How about that freedom thing that the American government pretends to agree with? I am sorry but I can feel nothing but rage towards the censorship of art of ANY kind - or censorship of anything for that matter. :flare:Quote:
Originally Posted by sjames08
Especially with a novel that's quite far from obscene. Hell, I'd give my mother The Catcher in the Rye to read.
Haha. Catcher in the Rye is obscene?
Hi there .:)
Have you read " The Catcher In The Rye " ?
how was that ?
Do you feel the same as holden calfield ?
I'm looking forward to hear your ideas.
I like it, its a good piece of litterature.
Most people could probably relate to the solitude and attitude of Mr. Caulfield, I mean, we all experience the "phonyness" of the adult world, thing is, life aint that easy, modern society gives no room to practice complete honesty. We need to deceive to make a decent shot at life, so sure, we're all phonies, its sad, but we're all phonies.
When I first read it I felt I was Holden, to be honest. I was in dire need of expressing my individuality, and were doing it in some red-hunting-hat kinda way. I also had this mean judgemental streak towards pretty much everyone, implying that the people around me were natiously superficial, not realizing that my own perception of them were superficial in almost every case.
Im glad someone brought it up, it disappeared somewhere in the flow of time
I believe that the reason why they make us read that book at highschool is because they think that we would like it, and as a matter of fact, most of us like it because when you are a teen you always disapprove of something that is going on around you, what can also be found in the mentioned masterpiece. It is either the fact, that you are not able to communicate with your surroundings, that your parents do not understand you, or simply that you hate the consumer society. I mean that the book has many ideas, which are attractive to teenagers and young people, and that is what makes it simply great.:thumbs_up
Good thing im a spry, young man in need of damaged, bitter, fictionary characters I can relate to.
I found it an interesting read, but I didn't really relate to Holden Caulfield in the slightest. However, I think if I'd read it at a younger age, like 14, I may well have related to the character.
When I was reading this book I felt that I was Holden . Around every corner Holden sees corruption . In his opinion the world is an evil and corrupt place . In his eyes the world is filled with perverts and morons . he feels that everything is superficial and without a deep meaning . I think he feels that he is trapped in an immoral and scrupulous world from which he can not escape . he sees himself completely powerless to change it . Holden blames the world's corruption on the adults and believes that when he stops the children from growing up he will preserve their innocence but it takes most of the book before Holden begins to realize that he is powerless to stop corruption and should get used to live like other people .
When I read it, I saw that I had recently made the transition, or was midway through the transition, from a young Holden type character, into a 'phony'. It's a shame really, that we all ultimately give up and cave in to superficiality. My past self would be horrified at some of the things I do and say now, such as asking people how they are when I greet them, even though I don't really expect an honest answer. It is somewhat superficial.
Hey
I'm currently writing an essay on 'The Catcher in the Rye' and how it realistically (or unrealistically) portrays the time period in which it was set (1940's).
What are your views on the subject? Is it a useful narrative in studying this period of America history in terms of culture and society or is it shrouded by Holdens pessimistic view of the world?
In the past, I've linked The Catcher in the Rye with other 1950's "angry-young-men" works like John Osborne's "Look Back in Anger" and the film "Rebel Without a Cause".
I'd say it's pretty timeless and not necessarily indicative of a certain decade in American history.
aysim i agree with the last poster that holden is more or less a timeless character and that the book itself is not indicative of any particular period in our history. at the same time, id add, i think the book is terribly over-rated, the main character has little or no redeeming values, and the author's writing is tediously repetitive. every legitimate chance i get i criticize the book---if anyone can enlighten me as to how this book deserves the status it apparently has, id be happy to hear the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by aysim
bounty, it may be due to the first cultural appearance of a youth wearing his ball cap backwards ...? :D
It either speaks to you or it doesn't. When you read a passage or a play or a poem or a novel or whatever written word appears in front of you, it either clicks and you become one with the words, following every syllable with eagerness to reach the next... or it falls flat, and you find yourself going through the motions with the hope of moving onto something with more pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by bounty
What does this mean in the end? There is nothing I or anyone else can say that will suddenly make the characters, prose, plot, pace, etc. click in your head if it already hasn't. It is clear you just don't get the allure, but that's fine. There are countless novels that everyone on this board seems to think is God's work, yet I find mind-numbingly boring, unimaginative, and lacking any writing skill whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounty
It is simply the best character study of a teenager ever written. Salinger is not repetitive (if you've read what else you've written) but Holden himself thinks and speaks in such a manner. If you cannot appreciate just how great the novel is, then there's nothing else to say.
Read it. It's okay but I was left wondering how it garnered such praise. It's probably just me. :p
It was one of the first books I delved into in the early 1950s. I particularly remember Holden's allusions to books he had read, one of which was Hardy's The Return of the Native. I thought, 'What an odd name for a book.' I didn't read Hardy for many years after, but I think reading Catcher ... was an intro to literature.
This was my favorite book growing up (not though I'm hardly very old even now).
My feelings toward the book have cooled somewhat, the more critical and analytical I get, but the novel still has a pathological affect on me.
I read it being already a grown-up, but luckily I had the pleasure of reading it in original and the book impressed me a lot. I liked the way Holden spoke about his sister, I cold feel that he loves her and i just knew that what He felt was sincere. Great book, no doubt.
It is my favourite book for many reasons. I wrote my A Level essay piece on childhood and used Catcher in the Rye and The Wasp Factory for comparison. I fell in love with it. I was going through a horrible stage where I felt very confused (about my sexuality, what I wanted to do with my life and how I felt about my friendship group) and the book just tore at my heart strings.
What would be Maxist critics of the Catcher in the Rye?
Hi. Thank for sharing your ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
I have a question. Are the Cliffnotes and Sparknotes considered structuralism approach? Thanks
What would be The New Criticism's view of Catcher in the rye? Thanks.
I believe it was pretty innovative piece of work, specially if Salinger didn't think or write in that way. I've read "Nine Stories" and it's not that he always sound like an angry teenager, though his writing style is very simples. Maybe many people think that it is very easy to write like this, but if this books was a pioneer, then I think the author had some merit.
The why of the Rye
An article on Catcher in the Rye.
I might have already posted in this thread but didn't want to take the time to search 20 pages worth to find out. if I have indeed already posted, I trust I said something very much like this: catcher in the rye is vastly overrated, and for the life of me I cannot see what the hubbub is about. its right up there with moby dick in terms of it being a major disappointment!
Well,I remember liking it, specially the boys language, and it was a influence on other books about rebellious and lost teens.
im all for books about rebellious and lost teens, but I think the book didn't succeed to the extent that it failed to make holden a likeable or sympathetic character.
Texas Bill Threatens Jail Time for Teaching Books Like “The Catcher in the Rye”
It’s a pretty “crummy” situation, as Holden Caulfield might say.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...e-content-ban/
Lawmakers in Texas are seeking to impose harsh criminal penalties on school librarians and teachers who provide award-winning works of literature to students. Identical bills in the Texas Senate and House would make it a crime for librarians and teachers to provide books or learning materials that contain sexually explicit content, punishable by up to 10 years behind bars—whether or not a book has educational or literary merit.
Currently, if someone is charged with providing sexually explicit content to a child, they can argue that the content was provided in pursuit of a scientific, educational, or governmental purpose. SB 412 and HB 267 would remove this affirmative defense. This defense exists because, while some people provide explicit content to children to harm them, books that include sexual content have long been a valuable component of secondary education. Many classic works of literature, including “The Odyssey,” “Catcher in the Rye,” “Brave New World,” and “One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest,” have sexually explicit scenes.
Other Texas bills would require display of the Ten Commandments and allow for prayer time in the classroom.
Under SB 412, which the Texas Senate voted to advance last week and now awaits approval by the House, teachers and librarians would no longer be able to argue that sexually explicit content can serve an educational purpose. Only law enforcement officials and judges would be exempted under the new law. SB 412 also leaves in place an exception if the adult providing the sexually explicit content is married to the child, which is legal in Texas, with a judge’s approval, if the child is at least 16 years old.
In the last few years, Texas teachers and librarians have faced an onslaught of criticism from conservative activists and lawmakers for offering well-regarded works of literature to students. Books that have come under fire in Texas include Toni Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” “The Handmaid’s Tale” by Margaret Atwood, and “The Color Purple” by Alice Walker.
In December, one district briefly restricted access to the Bible in an attempt to comply with a book-banning bill passed in 2023. Some activists have even targeted picture books about gender-identity or children with two parents of the same gender, saying such books are causing harm to young children.
Sen. Mayes Middleton (R-Galveston), the primary sponsor of SB 412, has sponsored several other bills during Texas’ current legislative session to ban materials from schools and libraries that don’t conform to his right-wing Christian ideology and aim to infuse religion into the classroom.
In addition to SB 412, five other bills sponsored by Middleton passed the Texas Senate last week.
SB 11 allows school districts to allocate time each day for teachers and students to pray or read from religious texts, including the Bible. SB 10 requires all classrooms to display a copy of the Ten Commandments.
SB 13 overhauls the process by which books are selected for school libraries. Instead of trained librarians, school boards would have the final say over which books are allowed on the shelves of school libraries. School districts would also be required to form library advisory boards of parents and other community members to recommend whether a book should be added or removed from a school’s collection. Finally, the bill places a blanket ban on books that have “indecent content or profane content.”
SB 18 would defund any libraries that host children’s drag queen story hours, a frequent target of conservative activists and lawmakers in Texas and other states.
SB 12 bans Texas schools from teaching about gender identity and sexual orientation; developing policies or training about diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI); and considering diversity in hiring decisions. One lawmaker said this bill would prevent taxpayer money from being spent to advance “political activism and political agendas.”
Multiple states, including Indiana and Arkansas, have already passed laws that make educators or librarians vulnerable to harsh penalties, or even jail time, for providing “obscene” materials to minors, the Washington Post reported. In December, a federal judge struck down parts of an Arkansas law that would have “established a criminal misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in prison, for librarians and booksellers who distribute ‘harmful’ material to a minor,” ruling that “elements of the law [were] unconstitutional.”
A 2024 analysis by the Associated Press found that in the first four months of last year, “lawmakers in more than 15 states…introduced bills to impose harsh penalties on libraries or librarians.” Legislators in multiple states, including Alabama, Georgia, and Arizona, have already introduced similar legislation this year.
In Alabama, HB 4 would change current criminal obscenity laws to include “public libraries, public school libraries, and their employees or agents in certain circumstances.” The bill, which has 50 cosponsors, gives educators and librarians “15 business days [after receiving a valid complaint] for staff to move material to an age-restricted section; remove material; cease conduct; or make an official determination that the material or conduct does not violate the law.”
Complaints can be sent by any resident in the same county as the public library or a parent or guardian of a child enrolled in the school. If the person who files the complaint does not receive notice of action within 25 days, the material can be taken to law enforcement. The bill excludes college and university libraries and librarians.
In Georgia, SB 74 would “repeal an exemption for libraries and librarians,” and make them vulnerable to “a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature” if they knowingly sell or distribute “harmful materials to minors.” The bill includes an exception for “librarians who make good faith attempts to identify and remove material harmful to minors.” The legislation was passed by the state Senate earlier this month, and has now moved to the House.
Arizona SB 1090 states that “an employee or independent contractor of a public library in this state may not refer an unemancipated minor [or facilitate access for an unemancipated minor] to any sexually explicit material in any manner.” The legislation states that an employee of a public library “who acting with criminal negligence violates this section is guilty of a class 5 felony.” The bill passed a Senate committee in January, but, even if it passes the state legislature, it is unlikely that it will be signed into law by Democratic Governor Katie Hobbs.
Censorship is un American but these d@mn fools don't know it.