Is Quran Biased?

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Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

You ask repetitive questions. Many posts, earlier in this thread, has quoted Quranic verses out of context (not you, since you have never given any reference to your claims discussed in this thread up till now) ) to distort it completely. It is still not clear what your motive was by making a comparison between two major religions of the world, which differ in many respects.

Do you even have any credible sources/references to your claims especially in post # 81? for the unth time lets us know which source you refer to?

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There isn't only one way to interpret the Quran. Just because you disagree with someone's literary analysis does not make it wrong. For the purposes of this thread, the Quran is not non-fiction and is open to literary analysis as is an other work which is discussed on this forum. My "motive" is to take the negative position of the question which is posed in the OP.

There is no requirement for me unconditional sing the praises of any work of literature and I intend to critically analyze the Quran from a variety of perspectives, as I would with any other piece of literature.

There is what? four lines about homosexuality in the Quran, it is hardly a main topic (or even a cause of huge scandal) of the book.

Yes, Bias is not a bad thing. Everything is biased, but if you have a bias towards something before knowing about it, then it is bad. That is why I ask again "Have you read the book you are attacking?"

p.s. you should stop to hide behind the "Literary analyses", you have not presented one at all. Knocking on the same keys as "not for woman" "treat homosexuals badly" is attacking the religious content of the book. Nothing even to do with the philosophy behind it.

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Originally Posted by JCamilo

There is what? four lines about homosexuality in the Quran, it is hardly a main topic (or even a cause of huge scandal) of the book.

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so homosexuality is an off limits topic? which parts of the Quran am I allowed to talk about?

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Yes, Bias is not a bad thing. Everything is biased, but if you have a bias towards something before knowing about it, then it is bad. That is why I ask again "Have you read the book you are attacking?"

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i have not read the entirety of the Quran. I was not aware that I was "attacking" anything. That being said, the Quran is not above being attacked or critiqued anymore than any other piece of literature. The question of this thread is not whether or not anyone biased agai at Islam, it is whether the author of the book had any biases against any particular individual and/or group.

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p.s. you should stop to hide behind the "Literary analyses", you have not presented one at all. Knocking on the same keys as "not for woman" "treat homosexuals badly" is attacking the religious content of the book. Nothing even to do with the philosophy behind it.

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the whole point of this thread and forum is to analyze literature. If I can't even discuss literature on a literature forum, what is the point of being here at all?

The religious content of the Quean is critiqueable, just as any other portion of the text is open to discussion. The section in which this thread is found is called "Religious Texts".

What is wrong with treating women, polytheists, and homosexuals as being equal to true Muslim believers?

There is only a single female character with a name in the Quran and her notability comes due to whom her son is. This women is portrayed as being either a virgin and/or completely asexual. It also shows her as having a death wish.

Virtually all other women in the Quran are nameless wives and mothers. None are portrayed as being fully independent, nor are any portrayed in any position of authority.

The God character in the book massacres an entire city of people for their acceptance of homosexuality. There are seven mentions of this (7:80–84, 11:77–83, 21:74, 22:43, 26:165–175, 27:56–59, and 29:27–33).

Polytheism is only "unforgivable" sin found in the Quran. "Shirk" is the worst of all the "wrongs" which a person could do according to the Quran.

The Quran is far from being a positive depiction of women, homosexual people, and especially polytheists. The author of the Quran obviously has a bias against these groups.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

The fact that the Quran implores people to give up their own beliefs and instead adopt Islam is bias. A universal piece of literature would not force people to give up their beliefs.

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And what are those facts? Can you enlighten us about it? After thousands of years being hidden from numerous religious scholars and its detractors, it appeared recently.

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It is obvious from the comments posted by this user, in the absence of any proof till date, that it has (the comments) beautifully managed to portray Islam negatively. In the face of credible references this user has resorted to begin asking repetitive questions and have never backed its claim made in the above post, an attitude hardly conducive for discussion, a style being envious towards islam.

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Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

And what are those facts? Can you enlighten us about it? After thousands of years being hidden from numerous religious scholars and its detractors, it appeared recently.

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4:89, 5:33, 47:20-21. Monotheism is an absolute requirement of all Muslims according to the Quran. Polytheism is constantly portrayed in a negative light in the Quran.

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It is obvious from the comments posted by this user, in the absence of any proof till date, that it has (the comments) beautifully managed to portray Islam negatively. In the face of credible references this user has resorted to begin asking repetitive questions and have never backed its claim made in the above post, an attitude hardly conducive for discussion, a style being envious towards islam.

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There is no mandate in the rules of this forum that any particular religion be portrayed in only a positive light. Both Islam and the Quran are fully open to criticism, here on this forum and everywhere else.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

There isn't only one way to interpret the Quran. Just because you disagree with someone's literary analysis does not make it wrong. For the purposes of this thread, the Quran is not non-fiction and is open to literary analysis as is an other work which is discussed on this forum. My "motive" is to take the negative position of the question which is posed in the OP.

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Sure, thus many translations, but also interpretation according to ones whims and desires is a big NO and that still does not give you the authority to do so

What if that "literary analysis" has been made randomly?

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Originally Posted by HCabret

4:89, 5:33, 47:20-21. Monotheism is an absolute requirement of all Muslims according to the Quran. Polytheism is constantly portrayed in a negative light in the Quran.


There is no mandate in the rules of this forum that any particular religion be portrayed in only a positive light. Both Islam and the Quran are fully open to criticism, here on this forum and everywhere else.

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Are these verses your proof for of Islam demanding forcible conversion? you have just selectively mentioned verses that supports your motive and that too out of context.

If you want your future posts taken seriously and be responded too, trying posting something credible. Your comments and posts and selectively measured references show hatred towards Islam though it might not be your intention, maybe the real problem lies in your choice of translation. Can we know it?

PS: choice of translation does not mean ones personal interpretation of a the Book.

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Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Sure, thus many translations, but also interpretation according to ones whims and desires is a big NO and that still does not give you the authority to do so

What if that "literary analysis" has been made randomly?

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there is no wrong way to interpret any work of literature. There are many different ways to view the motivations of literary characters and the thematic qualities of a work. There is no authority which can legislate interpretation of literature. I am sorry that you disagree with my interpretation, but simply because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong.

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Are these verses your proof for of Islam demanding forcible conversion? you have just selectively mentioned verses that supports your motive and that too out of context.

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they are quotes showing how Islam is being portrayed as superior to non-Muslim religions. Am I not allowed to cite the Quran as a means of backing up my argument?

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If you want your future posts taken seriously and be responded too, trying posting something credible. Your comments and posts and selectively measured references show hatred towards Islam though it might not be your intention, maybe the real problem lies in your choice of translation. Can we know it?

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Which parts of the Quran am I allowed to cite? Show me where in the Quran, feminism, homosexuality, and/or polytheism are portrayed positively. Neither the Quran, nor Islam, are above criticism and both are fully open to critique.

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PS: choice of translation does not mean ones personal interpretation of a the Book.

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Nor did I say otherwise.

It occurred to me that I don't have any "sacred texts". Or maybe my list of sacred texts is fluid being a list of whatever I happen to be biased enough toward to like at the moment.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

there is no wrong way to interpret any work of literature. There are many different ways to view the motivations of literary characters and the thematic qualities of a work. There is no authority which can legislate interpretation of literature. I am sorry that you disagree with my interpretation, but simply because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong.

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It was obvious all along that it was your version of interpretation. There may be different ways to express Quran, only in the selection of words, but the core theme is the same if there is any doubts scholars revert back to the original text in Arabic, where the concept of coercion ( which you so claimed) does not exist.

I am sure those fallacious judgements concerning forcible conversion , made in the heat of the moment and which you cover it as “literal analysis” was not to incite anyone or concerning anything.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

they are quotes showing how Islam is being portrayed as superior to non-Muslim religions. Am I not allowed to cite the Quran as a means of backing up my argument?

Which parts of the Quran am I allowed to cite? Show me where in the Quran, feminism, homosexuality, and/or polytheism are portrayed positively. Neither the Quran, nor Islam, are above criticism and both are fully open to critique.

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Islam does not demand that you wage an all out war against polytheism. The verses on fighting polytheist was related to the pagan Arabs, mainly around the time of wa,r and since most newly converters to Islam were subjected to inhuman and barbaric tortures by them.

Do you want to say if someone fights you, you stay put? One should not act in self defense?

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Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

It was obvious all along that it was your version of interpretation.

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I am glad that my intention to give my own personal interpretation if a book came across as being obviously such.

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There may be different ways to express Quran, only in the selection of words, but the core theme is the same if there is any doubts scholars revert back to the original text in Arabic, where the concept of coercion ( which you so claimed) does not exist.

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You do not have a monopoly on interpreting the thematic qualities of any particular piece of literature. There are many different outlooks concerning the literary themes of the Quran.

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I am sure those fallacious judgements concerning forcible conversion , made in the heat of the moment and which you cover it as “literal analysis” was not to incite anyone or concerning anything.

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All I have done is give my opinion concerning a piece of literature on a literature forum. I am sorry that my opinion does not align with your view.

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Islam does not demand that you wage an all out war against polytheism.

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Nor did I say otherwise. I said that the Quran portrays polytheism as being a bad thing.

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The verses on fighting polytheist was related to the pagan Arabs, mainly around the time of wa,r and since most newly converters to Islam were subjected to inhuman and barbaric tortures by them.

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So you do admit that the Quran portrays polytheism in a negative light?

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Do you want to say if someone fights you, you stay put? One should not act in self defense?

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I personally am against violence, but I will not claim that any other particular person agrees with me, as I can only speak for myself. How is this relevant to the literary analysis of the Quran or Medieval Arab literature?

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Originally Posted by HCabret

so homosexuality is an off limits topic? which parts of the Quran am I allowed to talk about?

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What about topics relevant to the book? Or do you also waste your time talking about the topic of animalcruelty on Don Quixote?

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i have not read the entirety of the Quran. I was not aware that I was "attacking" anything. That being said, the Quran is not above being attacked or critiqued anymore than any other piece of literature. The question of this thread is not whether or not anyone biased agai at Islam, it is whether the author of the book had any biases against any particular individual and/or group.

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You are fanatically attacking a book you didnt read. That is ridiculous. You are producing anything close to a literary critic. In fact,the only bias here is your own. A bad kind of bias, as you are showing pure prejudice.

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the whole point of this thread and forum is to analyze literature. If I can't even discuss literature on a literature forum, what is the point of being here at all?

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You are not analysing literature. You are just attacking religious dogmas you consider wrong. All you do here is talk in the religious ground about the book.

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The religious content of the Quean is critiqueable, just as any other portion of the text is open to discussion. The section in which this thread is found is called "Religious Texts".

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Then stop claiming otherwise, that your attacks on Quran are because any literary text deserve critics.

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What is wrong with treating women, polytheists, and homosexuals as being equal to true Muslim believers?

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Muhammad improved the treatment towards woman at his time. Only blind fanatism would demand it to be an improvement 15 centuries after it. Your critic seems to be those silly new atheists, devoid of any historical and social context, which is a toll for a good literary critic. You are just googling and quoting other sites, which is funny when you do not notice Lot tale is about disobedience, not mainly homosexuality, as his wife died and she is not homosexual.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

I am glad that my intention to give my own personal interpretation if a book came across as being obviously such. You do not have a monopoly on interpreting the thematic qualities of any particular piece of literature. There are many different outlooks concerning the literary themes of the Quran.

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For Islamic followers/Mohammedans the correct definition lies in the original Arabic scriptures not basically in the interpretations by humans and scholars do revert back to the it but when in doubt, rather than by their personal views( not even if they are a native Arab).
Scholars who translated Quarn had gone through a lengthy academic process, mastering the pronounciations, vocabulary and grammatical connotations. Each translations many vary in the it style it has been presented but the core message theme is the same because they always had the same source at hand, Arabic scripture, even though most of the authors came from different backgrounds, culture, eras and time zones and even some did not share the same faith.

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Originally Posted by HCabret

All I have done is give my opinion concerning a piece of literature on a literature forum. I am sorry that my opinion does not align with your view.

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So, in a way, you saying your personal views and judgments were based ( and you are free to) on your own personal interpretations, not derived from your referring the original scripture and its background?

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Originally Posted by HCabret

Nor did I say otherwise. I said that the Quran portrays polytheism as being a bad thing.

So you do admit that the Quran portrays polytheism in a negative light?


I personally am against violence, but I will not claim that any other particular person agrees with me, as I can only speak for myself. How is this relevant to the literary analysis of the Quran or Medieval Arab literature?

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In Quran, when there are more than one individual or a group of people, God sometimes converses in second or third person, referring to the persons concerned by their honorific title, tribe and faith.

The two parties who were at loggerheads ( Mohammed and his followers and Pagans Arabs) shared and were of the same language, lineage creed, race, city ,tribe, culture and they even shared the same belief up until that point.Imagine how odd and confusing it would have been if they were referred as, ”O ye dwellers of Makkah” or as “ O ye Arabs”. The only difference between them was their faith, one practicing monotheism and the other polytheism, not necessarily to impose ones superiority over other.

This style of speech is still used in among modern Arabic literature and individuals

Nazish

All religions are biased. They are all soap ads of a sort claiming their product washes whiter than the rest.

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Originally Posted by Munshie

Nazish

All religions are biased. They are all soap ads of a sort claiming their product washes whiter than the rest.

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this thread is about whether or not the Quran is biased, not whether any particular religion is biased or not.