Poetry Reading Group Redux- Nominations

Can we not talk about poets unrelated to the discussion now - whether one likes or dislikes said not mentioned or not voted for or not nominated poets is beside the point - if one wishes to pursue Racine in a discussion they can very easily start a thread on him - I personally wouldn't mind discussing my favorite by him, Phedre which is a great work, but alas, one of many great works.

The goal of the discussion is not to value poets in a hierarchy, but rather to discuss elements in order to understand a) the texts better, b) the text's world (both interior and the period it was constructed in), c) the texts historical relevance and placement in a wider frame, and d) the texts personal affect on the reader today. Whether it be Leopardi or Gautier, the point is, one needs to discuss them before they should go about playing this ordering and ranking game - you are a translator, so you are well versed in such texts, but I myself have read a few of them (in French) and think that one aught not to be so dismissive of things right from the start, and should read them regardless of whether they are Racine, or Hugo, or not.


As said though, the discussion looks to be headed toward Leopardi anyway, a personal favorite, who I have myself translated (though for personal reasons only, since I am a mere student), and I am sure though your Italian is far better than mine, as the massive 4000 page Zibaldone has yet to be translated into English, and your familiarity with it implies you have been exposed to it. I wanted to bring a copy of it here, but alas, couldn't find one reasonably priced (the Garzanti edition, which I would prefer given their excellent scholarship, is over 100 euros).

As for the voting now, can we agree now on a close time for the voting - has everyone voted already?

I understand the goal of the discussion. Precisions: I'm not a translator and unfortunately my Italian is not very good. The whole Zibaldone was translated and published in French in 2003. This is my edition, bought immediately as soon I read an intriguing review although I did not know well this author. Strange it's not entirely available in English. I'm just noticing that his letters are published in the same format; I think this book will be mine very soon. Pardon my digressions. Back to his poetry.

It doesn't look as though there will be any more votes. Shall we proced with Leopardi?

As I've never heard his name pronounced, is it Leo - (lion) - par - (golf par) - di - (truncated did)

or

Leopard - (big cat) - i - (truncated in) which would mak it sound as if he were leopard like, such as you might get with youghurty - yoghurt like?

I ask because an ex-history teacher of mine whilst a student, having never heard the name Goethe, pronounced him go-eth instead of ger - teh. Very embarassing for him.

:D

Yes I think we should proceed with Leopardi unless anyone has any objections, I think he was well in front anyway.

I would have pronounced it the first way myself, with four syllables, though I'm not sure now that you bring it up.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Yes I think we should proceed with Leopardi unless anyone has any objections, I think he was well in front anyway.

I would have pronounced it the first way myself, with four syllables, though I'm not sure now that you bring it up.

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I naturally assumed it to be that way too, but I have come to grief on pronunciation before. I read The Gulag Archipelago twenty odd years ago, and proceeded to tell a friend about it. I called it the - for the same reason that I'd never heard the word said before - The Gulag ar-chip -el - lar - go. It sounded great in a Yorkshire accent, but was comically wrong. :D

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

I naturally assumed it to be that way too, but I have come to grief on pronunciation before. I read The Gulag Archipelago twenty odd years ago, and proceeded to tell a friend about it. I called it the - for the same reason that I'd never heard the word said before - The Gulag ar-chip -el - lar - go. It sounded great in a Yorkshire accent, but was comically wrong. :D

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Oh no, you are quite right in bringing it up. I've made such mistakes before - many times probably - and yes often the accused accent only helps to maximises the error at our expense. I've just managed to find it online though and it appears that we were correct this time. :)

I've just read a bit about Leopardi online. He had an unfortunate life.

Is there an agreed to edition I should order, or will anyone do?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Is there an agreed to edition I should order, or will anyone do?

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I think people have ordered different editions, and JBI can read in Italian, so take your pick I think. If you flick back over you can see what editions are recommended and the pros and cons of each of them, though basically there are two translations which seem to have come out on top one by Eamon Grennan and one by J.G. Nichols. :)

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Originally Posted by Neely

I think people have ordered different editions, and JBI can read in Italian, so take your pick I think. If you flick back over you can see what editions are recommended and the pros and cons of each of them, though basically there are two translations which seem to have come out on top one by Eamon Grennan and one by J.G. Nichols. :)

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Thanks Neely. If one is dual language (one side Italian, one side English) that is the one i will order.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Thanks Neely. If one is dual language (one side Italian, one side English) that is the one i will order.

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The version I have - the aforementioned Orange covered one translated by Nichols - is dual language.

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Originally Posted by mayneverhave

The version I have - the aforementioned Orange covered one translated by Nichols - is dual language.

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Perfect. Now let me see if Amazon has that edition.

Edit: Rats. Amazon seems to have the Nichols translation, but it's not dual language.

If you're doing Leopardi, I'd join in--at least for part of the discussion. There's been a lot of talk about him on the boards, and it would be interesting to see what it's about.

Once you've decided on a particular book, though, will there be a particular order that the poems are talked about? I don't think I'm up to going over an entire poet's body of work, but, if the poems were approached in some sequence, off-and-on posters like me could contribute something now and again. It might also give the conversation some focus (talk to Janine about how important that is). JBI's right to caution in his last post about the discussion leaking into other topics. Although I'm I don't always like the overly academic attitude he tries to enforce, I think he has a point here. And, if the discussion is just a general discussion about a poet, then it seems likely there's going to be a tendency to slip into ranking the poet alongside other poets. You might have better luck taking the poems one at a time in some order. You might also get more posters to participate.

In any case, good luck with the thread. What number is this for the poetry bookclub? 6? 7? I think I participated briefly in 2, but that was over a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Quark

Once you've decided on a particular book, though, will there be a particular order that the poems are talked about? I don't think I'm up to going over an entire poet's body of work, but, if the poems were approached in some sequence, off-and-on posters like me could contribute something now and again. It might also give the conversation some focus (talk to Janine about how important that is). JBI's right to caution in his last post about the discussion leaking into other topics. Although I'm I don't always like the overly academic attitude he tries to enforce, I think he has a point here. And, if the discussion is just a general discussion about a poet, then it seems likely there's going to be a tendency to slip into ranking the poet alongside other poets. You might have better luck taking the poems one at a time in some order. You might also get more posters to participate.

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Glad your thinking about joining in Quark. As to the order we'll be tackling the poems - there are certainly (among the collection we're going to be using) some more important poems and some higher quality poems, but I imagine we can deal with what to read specifically when everyone has the volume.

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Originally Posted by Quark

If you're doing Leopardi, I'd join in--at least for part of the discussion. There's been a lot of talk about him on the boards, and it would be interesting to see what it's about.

Once you've decided on a particular book, though, will there be a particular order that the poems are talked about? I don't think I'm up to going over an entire poet's body of work, but, if the poems were approached in some sequence, off-and-on posters like me could contribute something now and again. It might also give the conversation some focus (talk to Janine about how important that is). JBI's right to caution in his last post about the discussion leaking into other topics. Although I'm I don't always like the overly academic attitude he tries to enforce, I think he has a point here. And, if the discussion is just a general discussion about a poet, then it seems likely there's going to be a tendency to slip into ranking the poet alongside other poets. You might have better luck taking the poems one at a time in some order. You might also get more posters to participate.

In any case, good luck with the thread. What number is this for the poetry bookclub? 6? 7? I think I participated briefly in 2, but that was over a year ago.

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I agree that we should focus upon one poem at a time and limit the discussion around that. It will enable us to focus do some in depth study.