Evolution vs. Creation

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How come they don't use the same reasoning for whenever a car comes round the corner (maybe God just put it and its driver there at that very moment with the appearance of continuity through time); or whenever someone enters the room; or meeting up with a friend (after all God could have tampered with your memories). See, it makes the world a rather confusing place to use that inventive reasoning. And because those who promote it with regard to the origins of the Universe, do not seem to use it in everyday life, their arguments don't seem to have much force upon the rest of us.

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That is untrue. I believe that everything happens for a reason. God Himself decided that that particular thing should happen, in a certain way. In the same way that God made the universe, He does everything for a reason. Everything happens because of HIM-God

Everything you say above can be applied to everything else, the car coming around the corner, someone entering the room, a meeting with a friend etc. They can all have reasons. They could all be created right now with historical evidence woven into their very fabric. Your argument supports God creating a false history to all of creation AT ANY POINT IN TIME WHETHER 4004BC OR YESTERDAY OR 10 SECONDS AGO. The fact that we cannot know the reasons behind God's doing this at any time is neither here nor there.

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The belief that the atoms of a "Big Bang" eventually produced people ALL BY THEMSELVES (that is, without any intelligent guidance) is contrary to the well-proven Second Law of Thermodynamics, and the fundamentals of Information Theory

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Untrue.
This belief is not contrary with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. While life is a decrease in entropy, still, at that time when life has existed and evolved, the total rise of entropy in universe has been much greater, outweighing the small decrease in entropy of life.

Hi Dyrwen,
I am glad that you have regarded the planet earth a spaceship, that makes two of us in the same thinking. In response to your query, I would like to refer you to the book "The 12th Planet". It is intriquing to note that creationist and evolutionist could have come to same conclusion and settle their despute.

Some says the earth is 14 billion years old, others 12 billion. Whatever it is, you will note that activities relating to human existence only developed in the last thousands of years (if my memory serves me right about 200,000 years) and fast tracked in development very recently.

The billion of years that past was a force of evolution, in the very recent time something created the human specie, as we see it now in ourselves, from the available evolved specie/being during that period(some sort of cloning in our modern world). From thereon, we evolved as we go on evolving from hereon.

It is sci-fiction, but do you think alien from outer space more advance than our civilization created us from their own image from the recent past?

I'm just wondering Hilarion Zerrud, with your beliefs, are they part of a religion? And how did you come to believe it? Im just curious to know, because I have never heard of a belief like that before :)

Ai, it 'tis possible that aliens did create Earth, but whom created the Aliens? :D

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Originally Posted by Hilarion Zerrud

Hi Dyrwen,
I am glad that you have regarded the planet earth a spaceship, that makes two of us in the same thinking. In response to your query, I would like to refer you to the book "The 12th Planet". It is intriquing to note that creationist and evolutionist could have come to same conclusion and settle their despute.

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Thanks for the headsup on the book, I'll look into it.

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Originally Posted by Hilarion Zerrud

Some says the earth is 14 billion years old, others 12 billion. Whatever it is, you will note that activities relating to human existence only developed in the last thousands of years (if my memory serves me right about 200,000 years) and fast tracked in development very recently.

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The Earth is 4.5 Billion years old, the Universe is 13.5-15billion years old. I see your thoughts on why human beings have only evolved and thought as they do this recently as being useful, though personally I feel that it has taken as long as it has because we've been evolving from lesser lifeforms since then and becoming more cognitive.

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Originally Posted by Hilarion Zerrud

It is sci-fiction, but do you think alien from outer space more advance than our civilization created us from their own image from the recent past?

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It is quite possible that aliens are able to go creating us in their image and reasonably more probable than the existence of a god doing the same, considering a lifeform in this universe doing the act of creation of mankind is more probable than a supernatural form of power from outside of our universe. I can't rule out the alien possibility, just as I can't rule out any other, though personally I prefer my own explanations more so, of course. Heh. When we get some evidence that aliens dropped down and cloned us from themselves, or when the prior human beings that had evolved are shown to somehow not be a different evolutionary pattern from homo sapiens, then I guess we'll have some insight into that. Hopefully someone'll come up with something, since conflicting evidence is always interesting to test.

yes. 4.5 billion years. however if we consider the atom/particles that started the earth in its initial creation(big bang), can we safely say that earth is the same primordial matter with the universe?

what advanced discoveries in our modern age are actually retracing advances in the forgoten past. this is according to the book i referred you. learn how cloning of "adam" was perfomed as detailed in ancient writing long long long before the existence of the bible. then judge for your self.

Extra terrestrial beings did not create earth, neither our solar system nor universe. However, there are free-thinker individuals who would like to believe that superior beings from outer space created the first "adam".

hi molko,
because you are a friend i will share with you my spirit. religion: yes, I believe in the "Force" that created the universe. Some call him God, other Father or Allah, science would sometimes call it ENERGY. He is a Supernatural Being yet nobody sees or touches him. Belief: Religion is a belief when nurtured will become your faith. I have expressed myself in my belief.

Hey guys,

I can't say as much as I would like to say, because saying anything at the moment takes time, and time is...money. ;)

Just a few comments (not that you want to hear them but oh well):

I don't get why you don't like the spaceship analogy, Adelheid. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, any more than there is with man being evolved from more primordial forms of life. And, unlike evolution, it does not challenge belief in God. What's wrong with God creating a planet which moves, for heaven's sake? The only thing I can see is that there is no mention of any of this, no mention of black holes, millions of suns, big bangs, and other astronomical subjects in the Bible. But in that the Bible is wrong - the Earth orbits around the sun. The sun moves around the centre of the Milky Way. The Milky Way moves around the Universe. And the Universe...well that is as far as our knowledge can go. Until we figure out a way to get through a wormhole (two-ended black hole) without being spaghettified in the process and find another Universe.

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That is untrue. I believe that everything happens for a reason. God Himself decided that that particular thing should happen, in a certain way. In the same way that God made the universe, He does everything for a reason. Everything happens because of HIM-God.

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Another thing I find fascinating. How can God control what happens and at the same time let free will exist?

And a final comment, Zerrud, I find the idea of aliens creating life likewise fascinating. But I don't think there's need for aliens to come and create life...I find the theory (not really a theory?) of us coming from outer space more plausible. You know, comet lands, primitive cell in comet, primitive cell reproduces, etc. I'm not saying I believe in it - I don't. I haven't really done much thinking about where life itself - i.e. the very first living cells - has come from, but here's my two minutes of thinking about it: viruses can't really be classified as "alive", and yet they *are*. They are somewhere in between living and non-living. Therefore in some such state the first life may have been born, gradually tearing away from the world of the non-living.

That's my two cents for now. *Rattles donations box* Any other givers?

:D

Miss Darcy

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Originally Posted by Hilarion Zerrud

yes. 4.5 billion years. however if we consider the atom/particles that started the earth in its initial creation(big bang), can we safely say that earth is the same primordial matter with the universe?

what advanced discoveries in our modern age are actually retracing advances in the forgoten past. this is according to the book i referred you. learn how cloning of "adam" was perfomed as detailed in ancient writing long long long before the existence of the bible. then judge for your self.

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The same matter, in a sense, yes. All the atoms of this universe are all 15 bya because we are all made of the same things from the past, in a sense. I am the same carbon atoms that popped into existence back then, though there is only 4% of the entire universe that is actually made out of atoms. The rest is 23% Cold Dark Matter and 73% Dark Energy, so that means that over 96% of the universe is undetectable in the laboratory.

Personally I don't believe in an "Adam" of any sort, cloned or not, though I'll see what your book is about eventually. I find it more possible for the primordial building blocks of life on Earth to have helped life become what it is today over 4 billion years ago through abiogenesis of a sort. The RNA, DNA, amino acids started the chain reaction that began life on this planet, to me and many others. I think we've been evolving since then and don't really find the work of an alien race much needed, but we've each got our own ideas on that idea so far.

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Originally Posted by Hilarion Zerrud

hi molko,
because you are a friend i will share with you my spirit. religion: yes, I believe in the "Force" that created the universe. Some call him God, other Father or Allah, science would sometimes call it ENERGY. He is a Supernatural Being yet nobody sees or touches him. Belief: Religion is a belief when nurtured will become your faith. I have expressed myself in my belief.

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I happen to hate, well not hate but dislike a lot, the idea that some folks put forth of "energy" being the same type of force some describe as gods. A god is a supernatural being with conscious power, as far as I'm aware that's what most people define it as, and it isn't some natural force that merely exists to make the matter be balanced. We can detect energy and we can find energies in this world and others, yet the only way people are detecting "God" or "Allah" etc, is to believe in it, not to find it through scientific means. The energy that science detects and adheres to knowing about is rarely, if ever, the same type of energy new age types and religious folks of the world are believing in.

Not to say what you believe is wrong, but it is not correct in a scientific sense or in a way that would make the energy of this universe correct. Study more relativity, less religion, and it makes a little more sense as to why I would contest such an idea about energy in the universe.

[QUOTE=Miss Darcy]Hey guys,


I don't get why you don't like the spaceship analogy, Adelheid. There's And a final comment, Zerrud, I find the idea of aliens creating life likewise fascinating. But I don't think there's need for aliens to come and create life...I find the theory (not really a theory?) of us coming from outer space more plausible. You know, comet lands, primitive cell in comet, primitive cell reproduces, etc. I'm not saying I believe in it - I don't. I haven't really done much thinking about where life itself - i.e. the very first living cells - has come from, but here's my two minutes of thinking about it: viruses can't really be classified as "alive", and yet they *are*. They are somewhere in between living and non-living. Therefore in some such state the first life may have been born, gradually tearing away from the world of the non-living.

Miss Darcy, you're a fine creature...aeons ago the universe had undergone a tumultous begining, however, this was also a way of finding order among the titans. Very gradually, immesureably, stars, planets, galaxies, milkyways were formed. However, harmony was never in their midst because gravitional influence and finding their path were their forever concern. In the aeons past, our solar system together with the revolving planets were formed undergoing this evolution of creation. The Earth as we know now was not yet created then.... and then the earth was created....Sorry, I'm just thinking aloud. I'll come back later.

Thank you for sharing you beliefs, Hilarion Zerrud. I find them fascinating :)