Poe Short Story Discussion Group

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-02-2008, 03:32 AM
Dark Muse

Quote:

The room lay in a high turret of the castellated abbey, was pentagonal in shape, and of capacious size. Occupying the whole southern face of the pentagon was the sole window --an immense sheet of unbroken glass from Venice --a single pane, and tinted of a leaden hue, so that the rays of either the sun or moon, passing through it, fell with a ghastly lustre on the objects within. Over the upper portion of this huge window, extended the trellice-work of an aged vine, which clambered up the massy walls of the turret.

First of all, I think it is interesting his use of "pentagonal" and "pentagon" here, as the suggestion of the Pentagram within this description of the bridal chamber does suggest the idea of some sort of ritual, or something occult to the reader.

I absolutely loved the passage speaking of the windows, and I think they are an important image, for some reason they bring to mind Ligeia's eyes, as well windows have a lot of spiritual significance. And I love the use of the word "ghastly" that is of course very Poe like. And I love the way he speaks of the light of the moon and the sun passing through the window. This does give a very haunting image to everything.

Quote:

The ceiling, of gloomy-looking oak, was excessively lofty, vaulted, and elaborately fretted with the wildest and most grotesque specimens of a semi-Gothic, semi-Druidical device. From out the most central recess of this melancholy vaulting, depended, by a single chain of gold with long links, a huge censer of the same metal, Saracenic in pattern, and with many perforations so contrived that there writhed in and out of them, as if endued with a serpent vitality, a continual succession of parti-colored fires.

This is another beautiful passage, and once more filled with allusions to ritual and the occult. And it paints a very gaudy picture of this room in which he is to take his bride.

Quote:

gloomy-looking oak

There is something about this I just love.

And of course he throws in words like "grotesque" and "gothic" "melancholy: these are all things which do set a certain atmosphere and inspire a particular mood.

It is also curious all the allusions made to "barbarians" here. the Goths, the Celts, the Sacreans. These were all races that were viewed as savage at one time, which he references. And he also uses the world Wild. There is indeed something much more uncivilized about this compared to the long hours he spent in learning with Ligeia. This could be a reflection of his own emotions, as well as his opium use. The ravings of both grief and hallucination shown within this sort of physical environment.

Quote:

with a serpent vitality, a continual succession of parti-colored fires.

This is an excellent line, and it brings to mind the image of the serpent which swallows its own tail, which is a symbol of eternal life.

Quote:

Some few ottomans and golden candelabra, of Eastern figure, were in various stations about --and there was the couch, too --bridal couch --of an Indian model, and low, and sculptured of solid ebony, with a pall-like canopy above

Here I think he is trying to create an exotic atmosphere and mood with the influence of the east. This could be used to put the reader in the mind of some far away place, which helps blur the lines further between what is real and what is not.

Quote:

The lofty walls, gigantic in height --even unproportionably so --were hung from summit to foot, in vast folds, with a heavy and massive-looking tapestry --tapestry of a material which was found alike as a carpet on the floor, as a covering for the ottomans and the ebony bed, as a canopy for the bed, and as the gorgeous volutes of the curtains which partially shaded the window. The material was the richest cloth of gold. It was spotted all over, at irregular intervals, with arabesque figures, about a foot in diameter, and wrought upon the cloth in patterns of the most jetty black. But these figures partook of the true character of the arabesque only when regarded from a single point of view.

These curtains will play an important role within this story as they story progresses, and are used as another device to tease the mind of the reader, to play between the supernatural and the rations. Here it is interesting the heavy use of both black and gold throughout the description of the bridal chamber. Also how immense everything here is. Several times, he uses such words as gigantic, and massive, high, tall, and so forth. The room is given a very "heavy" feeling, as well as a very expansive one. He really creates this fantasy atmosphere, it is like walking right into a dream.

Poe is setting the stage perfectly for what is soon to come. He is created this whole new world which is exlcuded from the world outside. A dark world of fantasy with ties to the ancient past.

Quote:

To one entering the room, they bore the appearance of simple monstrosities; but upon a farther advance, this appearance gradually departed; and step by step, as the visitor moved his station in the chamber, he saw himself surrounded by an endless succession of the ghastly forms which belong to the superstition of the Norman, or arise in the guilty slumbers of the monk. The phantasmagoric effect was vastly heightened by the artificial introduction of a strong continual current of wind behind the draperies --giving a hideous and uneasy animation to the whole.

Beautiful use of language here. In some ways, as the language grows every more elaborate you can feel the narrator is growing more excited within the story. It started off a little slow, and there was even something more "rational" or intellectual about his discussing the appearance of Ligeia, but here you can feel the mounting intensity, as he is remembering more and more as the tale unfolds.

And of course speaking of the strange effect these draped had, does begin to plant a small seed of doubt within the mind of the reader.

Quote:

My memory flew back, (oh, with what intensity of regret!) to Ligeia, the beloved, the august, the beautiful, the entombed. I revelled in recollections of her purity, of her wisdom, of her lofty, her ethereal nature, of her passionate, her idolatrous love. Now, then, did my spirit fully and freely burn with more than all the fires of her own. In the excitement of my opium dreams (for I was habitually fettered in the shackles of the drug) I would call aloud upon her name, during the silence of the night, or among the sheltered recesses of the glens by day, as if, through the wild eagerness, the solemn passion, the consuming ardor of my longing for the departed, I could restore her to the pathway she had abandoned --ah, could it be forever? --upon the earth.

This is so filled with wonderful passion. And the language is just stunning here. As much as he did worship and adore her, here his love for her seems to have reached new levels of intensity.

Quote:

I could restore her to the pathway she had abandoned --ah, could it be forever? --upon the earth.

Now this is an interesting line. Is he questioning the reader here? Was the question of forever meant to be a bit playful, and suggestive, in this line he seems to be displaying some forward knowledge of what is about to happen. Perhaps another seed to be planted in the mind of the reader. Is the question mark truly meant for himself? Or for the audience? It could be a mournful lament if he is speaking to himself, but it could also be an indication that perhaps things are not all they seem.

Quote:

About the commencement of the second month of the marriage, the Lady Rowena was attacked with sudden illness, from which her recovery was slow. The fever which consumed her rendered her nights uneasy; and in her perturbed state of half-slumber, she spoke of sounds, and of motions, in and about the chamber of the turret, which I concluded had no origin save in the distemper of her fancy, or perhaps in the phantasmagoric influences of the chamber itself. She became at length convalescent --finally well. Yet but a brief period elapsed, ere a second more violent disorder again threw her upon a bed of suffering; and from this attack her frame, at all times feeble, never altogether recovered. Her illnesses were, after this epoch, of alarming character, and of more alarming recurrence, defying alike the knowledge and the great exertions of her physicians. With the increase of the chronic disease which had thus, apparently, taken too sure hold upon her constitution to be eradicated by human means, I could not fall to observe a similar increase in the nervous irritation of her temperament, and in her excitability by trivial causes of fear. She spoke again, and now more frequently and pertinaciously, of the sounds --of the slight sounds --and of the unusual motions among the tapestries, to which she had formerly alluded.

One of the things which is interesting here is the fact that with Ligeia, we are told little more than she suddenly fell ill and died, there was a breif moment of her struggle but little else was said of it. While the reader is given a far more detailed account of the illness of Rowena.

It is getting late now, and I probably have already posted more than I should have, so I think I am going to have to leave it at that for the night.
10-02-2008, 02:06 PM
LC_Lancer

I looked at the passage without waiting for Dark Muse.

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
There is no individual portion of the architecture and decoration of that bridal chamber which is not now visibly before me.

This is the only sign that he no longer lives in the abbey. The only time that something is mentioned beyond the end of the story. The first question that popped in my mind was “Where did you write this narrative?” Unfortunately, it is a forever unanswered question.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Where were the souls of the haughty family of the bride, when, through thirst of gold, they permitted to pass the threshold of an apartment so bedecked, a maiden and a daughter so beloved?

Here we get two clues as to why Rowena’s parents agreed to the marriage: their appetite for money and the fine decorations. I could have been when they saw the décor and knew he had money and wanted to get into the riches. Could have Rowena’s sudden illness have been an attempt on the narrator’s life that she received instead? I do not know.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
I have said that I minutely remember the details of the chamber

I see three reasons why he remembers this chamber only in the smallest detail:
>He decorated it himself,
>This was the only part of the restored abbey that was decorated
>He spent the most time in the room.

If he did decorate it, he should not have while still in morning. I get the feeling that he waited a year (or years) before purchasing the abbey, then he had to re-arrange the inside from a monastery to a private living quarters which could take years. He was still in morning for Ligeia. Perhaps, he decorated it on purpose (to Ligeia’s instructions?).

Even though the narrator called it a “Bridal Chamber”, up to the point when he married Rowena it probably was just his bedroom.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
The ceiling, of gloomy-looking oak, was excessively lofty, vaulted, and elaborately fretted with the wildest and most grotesque specimens of a semi-Gothic, semi-Druidical device.

Even though he said he remembered the bridal chamber, he fails to give us anymore description of the designs than “most grotesque” and leaving the reader to imagine the ‘wildest’ designs to THEIR OWN fears adding to the overall tone and mood of the story and, more importantly, the chamber.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
From out the most central recess of this melancholy vaulting, depended, by a single chain of gold with long links, a huge censer of the same metal, Saracenic in pattern,

This is not an unusual thing to have in a monastery, but the pattern is that of Muslims that fought the Christian Crusaders in the Middle Ages (beginning in 1095). If he brought it into the abbey, then the narrator has a wicket sense of humor (like someone else I know). If it was already there, then the monks were probably using it as a reminder of their past attempts to capture the holy land and this was just a spoil of war.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Some few ottomans and golden candelabra, of Eastern figure, were in various stations about --and there was the couch, too --bridal couch --of an Indian model, and low, and sculptured of solid ebony, with a pall-like canopy above.

Even though he said he remembers the chamber in detail, he mentions the couch as if it was an afterthought. He introduces it here because it is something that is important later in the story, but not at the beginning of the marriage.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
In each of the angles of the chamber stood on end a gigantic sarcophagus of black granite, from the tombs of the kings over against Luxor, with their aged lids full of immemorial sculpture.

Inside the room were Egyptian coffins (five in all) looking toward the center, this could be another hint as to why Rowena became ill, she simple did not like the Egyptian faces looking at her. Remember she was in there a whole month with them. I do not believe she was ‘locked away’ for the entire month, but she did sleep there.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
But in the draping of the apartment lay, alas! the chief phantasy of all. The lofty walls, gigantic in height --even unproportionably so --were hung from summit to foot, in vast folds, with a heavy and massive-looking tapestry --tapestry of a material which was found alike as a carpet on the floor, as a covering for the ottomans and the ebony bed, as a canopy for the bed, and as the gorgeous volutes of the curtains which partially shaded the window.

This I thought was strange. The same material was ALL over the room. At this point, the material does seem to take on as a character of its own. He probably wanted the reader to visually fear the images that were everywhere in the chamber and set up the point where Rowena could very easily misinterpret the images as real when she was sick. But the same could be said for the narrator, but more on that later.
Two other points:
The tapestry with the ‘vast folds’ meant there were plenty of places to hid in the room (behind the tapestry or behind the sarcophagi).
I think it was particular that with all of the cloth in the room it only ‘partially’ covered the window. The narrator or the monks did not want the entire window pane covered.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
an endless succession of the ghastly forms which belong to the superstition of the Norman, or arise in the guilty slumbers of the monk.

To me, this indicates the tapestry was original to the abbey. The narrator ponders if the Normans created it out pre-religious code or the monks created them to scare them into obedience of God.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
The phantasmagoric effect was vastly heightened by the artificial introduction of a strong continual current of wind behind the draperies --giving a hideous and uneasy animation to the whole.

This means to me that the bridal turret was drafty. Since Rowena only lived there one month before she became sick, it might indicate that Rowena was ill before she married and her illness was enhanced by the room.
However, since she was a ‘maiden’ when they were married, the abbey might have been the first place she lived in other than her parent’s house. If her parents’ house was a regular house (rich or not), it would have been near the ground. She might have become ill after breathing the old, musky, moldy, damp air of the abbey that never seemed to stop blowing around the room.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
My memory flew back, (oh, with what intensity of regret!) to Ligeia, the beloved, the august, the beautiful, the entombed.

Poe is not known for his comedy, but this was a funny line. I loved the way he was writing in a positive direction then he turned at the last moment to also include ‘the entombed’. If you found that funny, then you should try “The Angel of the Odd” as recommended by Dark Muse on another thread. It was so funny that several of my students looked at me as I laughed out aloud. That is what I get for listening to Dark Muse. :D. However, the narrator could have been just letting us know he knows she is dead and reminding us she has passed away.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Now, then, did my spirit fully and freely burn with more than all the fires of her own. In the excitement of my opium dreams (for I was habitually fettered in the shackles of the drug) I would call aloud upon her name, during the silence of the night, or among the sheltered recesses of the glens by day, as if, through the wild eagerness, the solemn passion, the consuming ardor of my longing for the departed, I could restore her to the pathway she had abandoned --ah, could it be forever? --upon the earth.

Earlier we talked about the belief that she could stay (or return) by the shear power of her will, but it was based on Ligeia’s will. This passage indicated to me that the narrator might harbor the same hope that if he wished (or willed) hard enough he could bring her back. With all of his yelling, it might be that Ligeia ‘heard’ from the other world and decided to arrive at the next opportunity. Ligeia might have created her own opportunity.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Yet but a brief period elapsed, ere a second more violent disorder again threw her upon a bed of suffering; and from this attack her frame, at all times feeble, never altogether recovered.

This is the third of four descriptions we have of Rowena. The first two were “fair-haired” and “blue eyed” now we have ‘feeble’. Ironically, it is the same word he used to describe his own memory at the beginning of the story. There is another on later in the story.
Regarding Rowena’s illness, he wrote she was ‘thrown’ upon the bed. That could mean a seizure or bout of insanity.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Her illnesses were, after this epoch, of alarming character, and of more alarming recurrence, defying alike the knowledge and the great exertions of her physicians. With the increase of the chronic disease which had thus, apparently, taken too sure hold upon her constitution to be eradicated by human means, I could not fall to observe a similar increase in the nervous irritation of her temperament, and in her excitability by trivial causes of fear.

This was a long and very complicated sentence. We know from these two sentences that Rowena has doctors (possible indication of time frame for the story), that her illness was beyond the comprehension of her doctors, and that their skills could not cure her. If her doctors could not find a cure, then the illness might not have been of the natural world, but of the supernatural world. It might also have been that she suffered from something that their era’s doctors had no knowledge, but we could help her now. These two sentences also indicate to the reader that her illness was long term, but this could have been the narrator’s point of view. Earlier, the narrator mentioned how Rowena did not like his ‘temper’, but not the shoe is on the other foot. It is the narrator complaining about Rowena’s temper.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
She spoke again, and now more frequently and pertinaciously, of the sounds --of the slight sounds --and of the unusual motions among the tapestries, to which she had formerly alluded.

Finally, the sights and sounds that only presents to Rowena is called into question. It is not know definitely if
>she hears and sees things that are truly there (the servants, the narrator, the ‘ever present’ wind), but are misinterpreting them as distance noises
>mistakes the tapestry that ‘seems to take on a life of its own’ as ghosts
>sees through the veil into the after world because she is near death
>her fever induced brain is hallucinating
>she is being haunted by Ligeia (now a real ghost).
===
10-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Dark Muse

I do not want to repeat myself, as I addressed many of the same things you did in my above post, but I will make some comments here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

This is the only sign that he no longer lives in the abbey. The only time that something is mentioned beyond the end of the story. The first question that popped in my mind was “Where did you write this narrative?” Unfortunately, it is a forever unanswered question.

Poe's narrators are often mysterious as to just where they are now, or whom they are telling thier stories too, as it is often the case they are recounting some horrific tale many years after it had already happend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Here we get two clues as to why Rowena’s parents agreed to the marriage: their appetite for money and the fine decorations. I could have been when they saw the décor and knew he had money and wanted to get into the riches. Could have Rowena’s sudden illness have been an attempt on the narrator’s life that she received instead? I do not know.

I somewhat disagree with you here. I do not think he is suggusting that the parents agreed to the marraige because of the decorations. But to me he is saying, for the sake of money how could they allowed thier beloved daughter into a place decorated in such a way as this. As he paints a very gaudy, dark, gothic looking room, not a place that looks inviting. I think he is rather saying the parents agreed to the marraige inspite of the decour, not becasue of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

I see three reasons why he remembers this chamber only in the smallest detail:
>He decorated it himself,
>This was the only part of the restored abbey that was decorated
>He spent the most time in the room.

If he did decorate it, he should not have while still in morning. I get the feeling that he waited a year (or years) before purchasing the abbey, then he had to re-arrange the inside from a monastery to a private living quarters which could take years. He was still in morning for Ligeia. Perhaps, he decorated it on purpose (to Ligeia’s instructions?)

I personaly never got the feeling that he decorated it himself but at some point within the story I belevie it says that after his marraige he and Rowena stayed within the room for sometime

Quote:

In halls such as these --in a bridal chamber such as this --I passed, with the Lady of Tremaine, the unhallowed hours of the first month of our marriage

This suggests they spent a great deal of time within the room, and in fact we never do see them outside of it. The room itself becomes a central part to his life, and it is the last place he is leading up to the events of the end of the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Even though he said he remembers the chamber in detail, he mentions the couch as if it was an afterthought. He introduces it here because it is something that is important later in the story, but not at the beginning of the marriage.

That is a good observation, the way in which he does seem to almost forget it before throwing it in. It is a way he suggests it, or introuduces it to the reader without making it imporant. So the reader nearly forgets it is there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

This I thought was strange. The same material was ALL over the room. At this point, the material does seem to take on as a character of its own. He probably wanted the reader to visually fear the images that were everywhere in the chamber and set up the point where Rowena could very easily misinterpret the images as real when she was sick. But the same could be said for the narrator, but more on that later.

I did mention the mattieral heavily in my above post, but I do think it becomes a central and imporant part within the story in the events that are later to come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

This means to me that the bridal turret was drafty. Since Rowena only lived there one month before she became sick, it might indicate that Rowena was ill before she married and her illness was enhanced by the room.

Ahh yes I did not think of that, but indeed an old abbey probably was quite drafty. I do not think we are intended to beleive that Rowena was sick prior to the major, I do not think the nature of the illness itself it intended to be imporant. Illness was quite common then, as well Poe experinced many deaths of women in his life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

However, since she was a ‘maiden’ when they were married, the abbey might have been the first place she lived in other than her parent’s house. If her parents’ house was a regular house (rich or not), it would have been near the ground. She might have become ill after breathing the old, musky, moldy, damp air of the abbey that never seemed to stop blowing around the room.

Sense she is referred to as a "Lady" I think this is meant was a title to suggest that she did come from a wealthy family. I would presume that she did live with her parents until the marriage, and even in normal circumstances I am sure than it would be frightening and a very emotional and psychologically experience for a girl to be "sold" by her parents to a man and to be ripped away from everything that is familiar to her. It would be doubly worse to be taken to such a dark ghastly place.

I can imagine her illness may have been induced both by the physcial invrioment and her own mental state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Poe is not known for his comedy, but this was a funny line. I loved the way he was writing in a positive direction then he turned at the last moment to also include ‘the entombed’. If you found that funny, then you should try “The Angel of the Odd” as recommended by Dark Muse on another thread. It was so funny that several of my students looked at me as I laughed out aloud. That is what I get for listening to Dark Muse. :D. However, the narrator could have been just letting us know he knows she is dead and reminding us she has passed away.

Now that you mention it, you are right, there is some humur within that line. I think Poe does a very good job within this story of brining emotion acorss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Earlier we talked about the belief that she could stay (or return) by the shear power of her will, but it was based on Ligeia’s will. This passage indicated to me that the narrator might harbor the same hope that if he wished (or willed) hard enough he could bring her back. With all of his yelling, it might be that Ligeia ‘heard’ from the other world and decided to arrive at the next opportunity. Ligeia might have created her own opportunity.

Yes he does seem to be calling out to her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

This was a long and very complicated sentence. We know from these two sentences that Rowena has doctors (possible indication of time frame for the story), that her illness was beyond the comprehension of her doctors, and that their skills could not cure her. If her doctors could not find a cure, then the illness might not have been of the natural world, but of the supernatural world. It might also have been that she suffered from something that their era’s doctors had no knowledge, but we could help her now. These two sentences also indicate to the reader that her illness was long term, but this could have been the narrator’s point of view. Earlier, the narrator mentioned how Rowena did not like his ‘temper’, but not the shoe is on the other foot. It is the narrator complaining about Rowena’s temper.

That line was almost like a tounge-twister. That is another interesting thing, with Ligiea's illness there is no suggustion or mention of doctors attending to her at any time (Which could perhaps help suggest the theroy that she never was human to start with) for as much as he cared of Ligiea it seemed he never acutally saught outside help for her.

Here with Rowena, she is attended to, also another interesting thing is the fact that if you think about it with Ligeia the narrator is the only one who ever "sees" her, that is at no point within the story is the ever any mention of other people, not directly.

But with Rowena, we have a direct mention of her parents as she hands thier daughter off to be married and now we know that doctors have called upon her. She has had contact with people other than her husband. She has been seen by the outside world.
10-02-2008, 03:43 PM
LC_Lancer

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
First of all, I think it is interesting his use of "pentagonal" and "pentagon" here, as the suggestion of the Pentagram within this description of the bridal chamber does suggest the idea of some sort of ritual, or something occult to the reader.

I can see that, but there was another abbey in Norman country that had a turret in the shape of a pentagon (Malmesbury Abbey). With the occult reference, it also brings in the idea of concentrating power. Ligeia moves to the center of the room at the end of the story. Maybe that was the strongest point in the room to complete the conversion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
I absolutely loved the passage speaking of the windows, and I think they are an important image, for some reason they bring to mind Ligeia's eyes, as well windows have a lot of spiritual significance. And I love the use of the word "ghastly" that is of course very Poe like. And I love the way he speaks of the light of the moon and the sun passing through the window. This does give a very haunting image to everything.

I also love the passage. I think the details he used to describe the pane indicate he ordered it and wanted it that way. I wonder why?
The word ‘ghastly’ also lends the reader to see the color of the moon/sun beams streaming through the window. If he had used the word ‘ghostly’, that would have been a different color and would have changed the entire mood of the room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
This is another beautiful passage, and once more filled with allusions to ritual and the occult. And it paints a very gaudy picture of this room in which he is to take his bride.

He used the words “gloomy-looking” and “lofty”. Both words could also be used to describe the narrator’s feeling toward his new wife.

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
gloomy-looking oak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
There is something about this I just love.

Perhaps is the ‘gloomy’ part. You have to tell us; we can only guess. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
It is also curious all the allusions made to "barbarians" here. the Goths, the Celts, the Sacreans. These were all races that were viewed as savage at one time, which he references.

Regarding the Savages, those groups were only considered savages by the civilized people. They considered themselves as civilized. They had a form of government, appeals, and succession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
These curtains will play an important role within this story as they story progresses, and are used as another device to tease the mind of the reader, to play between the supernatural and the rations. Here it is interesting the heavy use of both black and gold throughout the description of the bridal chamber. Also how immense everything here is. Several times, he uses such words as gigantic, and massive, high, tall, and so forth. The room is given a very "heavy" feeling, as well as a very expansive one. He really creates this fantasy atmosphere, it is like walking right into a dream.

I agree that the curtains/tapestry play an important role in the story. That is one reason he spent so much time describing it. It also casts doubt on what Rowena actually saw or even what the narrator reported to us.
With a room that high and vaulty, it will be nearly impossible to heat. Remember this part of the story takes place in August and September. Since the land was described at “unsocial” one could speculate that this is a far north county. It could be another reason why Rowena became ill.

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
To one entering the room, they bore the appearance of simple monstrosities; but upon a farther advance, this appearance gradually departed; and step by step, as the visitor moved his station in the chamber, he saw himself surrounded by an endless succession of the ghastly forms which belong to the superstition of the Norman, or arise in the guilty slumbers of the monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
Beautiful use of language here. In some ways, as the language grows every more elaborate you can feel the narrator is growing more excited within the story. It started off a little slow, and there was even something more "rational" or intellectual about his discussing the appearance of Ligeia, but here you can feel the mounting intensity, as he is remembering more and more as the tale unfolds.

And of course speaking of the strange effect these draped had, does begin to plant a small seed of doubt within the mind of the reader.

I agree. He also used the word ‘ghastly’ again here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
This is so filled with wonderful passion. And the language is just stunning here. As much as he did worship and adore her, here his love for her seems to have reached new levels of intensity.

I agree whole-heartily. I think he had a purpose, but if he did not then it is a longing I fully understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM Now this is an interesting line. Is he questioning the reader here? Was the question of forever meant to be a bit playful, and suggestive, in this line he seems to be displaying some forward knowledge of what is about to happen. Perhaps another seed to be planted in the mind of the reader. Is the question mark truly meant for himself? Or for the audience? It could be a mournful lament if he is speaking to himself, but it could also be an indication that perhaps things are not all they seem.

The question mark was a doubt in his mind. The word ‘forever’ is the time frame. If Ligeia could find a way back then it is logical that she could transfer her essence to other people throughout time. As one grows old and dies, another body is found. I do not think it is sacrifice, but the person would have to die for Ligeia. If Ligeia did it once, then she could show the narrator how to do it and thus live ‘forever’ together. It might be two part solution: one here and one on the other side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
One of the things which is interesting here is the fact that with Ligeia, we are told little more than she suddenly fell ill and died, there was a breif moment of her struggle but little else was said of it. While the reader is given a far more detailed account of the illness of Rowena.

That could be because it is closer to him then Ligeia death. If the ending is believed as Ligeia returned, then the narrator passed over her death because it is unimportant. She found a way back and thus her death is only a minor point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:32 AM
It is getting late now, and I probably have already posted more than I should have, so I think I am going to have to leave it at that for the night.

I read all of it. It was not too long and I agree that it was late. What are you doing up at 3:00am? Tough time sleeping? Me, too.
10-02-2008, 04:13 PM
Dark Muse

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Perhaps is the ‘gloomy’ part. You have to tell us; we can only guess. :D

I do love gloomy looking trees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Regarding the Savages, those groups were only considered savages by the civilized people. They considered themselves as civilized. They had a form of government, appeals, and succession.

This story was written in a time when people would have been viewed as savage, and he was writing to appeal to his current audience. He used those references specifically I think because those reading would have thought of it as savage. He was not trying to be historically accurate. He was creating a particular feeling his audience would relate to, and be effected by.

If you read what I wrote you will note I said:

Quote:

It is also curious all the allusions made to "barbarians" here. the Goths, the Celts, the Sacreans. These were all races that were viewed , as savage at one time which he references.

You cannot deny that they were indeed viewed as savage at one point of time. And during the time Poe was wirting this story, he was writing to people that would hold that view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

I read all of it. It was not too long and I agree that it was late. What are you doing up at 3:00am? Tough time sleeping? Me, too.

It is not quite that late/early here. Or I should say it was not at the time.
10-03-2008, 12:27 PM
Dark Muse

You may still coment on what has been said above, but here is the next part of the text

Quote:

One night, near the closing in of September, she pressed this distressing subject with more than usual emphasis upon my attention. She had just awakened from an unquiet slumber, and I had been watching, with feelings half of anxiety, half of vague terror, the workings of her emaciated countenance. I sat by the side of her ebony bed, upon one of the ottomans of India. She partly arose, and spoke, in an earnest low whisper, of sounds which she then heard, but which I could not hear --of motions which she then saw, but which I could not perceive. The wind was rushing hurriedly behind the tapestries, and I wished to show her (what, let me confess it, I could not all believe) that those almost inarticulate breathings, and those very gentle variations of the figures upon the wall, were but the natural effects of that customary rushing of the wind. But a deadly pallor, overspreading her face, had proved to me that my exertions to reassure her would be fruitless. She appeared to be fainting, and no attendants were within call. I remembered where was deposited a decanter of light wine which had been ordered by her physicians, and hastened across the chamber to procure it. But, as I stepped beneath the light of the censer, two circumstances of a startling nature attracted my attention. I had felt that some palpable although invisible object had passed lightly by my person; and I saw that there lay upon the golden carpet, in the very middle of the rich lustre thrown from the censer, a shadow --a faint, indefinite shadow of angelic aspect --such as might be fancied for the shadow of a shade. But I was wild with the excitement of an immoderate dose of opium, and heeded these things but little, nor spoke of them to Rowena. Having found the wine, I recrossed the chamber, and poured out a gobletful, which I held to the lips of the fainting lady. She had now partially recovered, however, and took the vessel herself, while I sank upon an ottoman near me, with my eyes fastened upon her person. It was then that I became distinctly aware of a gentle footfall upon the carpet, and near the couch; and in a second thereafter, as Rowena was in the act of raising the wine to her lips, I saw, or may have dreamed that I saw, fall within the goblet, as if from some invisible spring in the atmosphere of the room, three or four large drops of a brilliant and ruby colored fluid. If this I saw --not so Rowena. She swallowed the wine unhesitatingly, and I forbore to speak to her of a circumstance which must, after all, I considered, have been but the suggestion of a vivid imagination, rendered morbidly active by the terror of the lady, by the opium, and by the hour.

Yet I cannot conceal it from my own perception that, immediately subsequent to the fall of the ruby-drops, a rapid change for the worse took place in the disorder of my wife; so that, on the third subsequent night, the hands of her menials prepared her for the tomb, and on the fourth, I sat alone, with her shrouded body, in that fantastic chamber which had received her as my bride. --Wild visions, opium-engendered, flitted, shadow-like, before me. I gazed with unquiet eye upon the sarcophagi in the angles of the room, upon the varying figures of the drapery, and upon the writhing of the parti-colored fires in the censer overhead. My eyes then fell, as I called to mind the circumstances of a former night, to the spot beneath the glare of the censer where I had seen the faint traces of the shadow. It was there, however, no longer; and breathing with greater freedom, I turned my glances to the pallid and rigid figure upon the bed. Then rushed upon me a thousand memories of Ligeia --and then came back upon my heart, with the turbulent violence of a flood, the whole of that unutterable wo with which I had regarded her thus enshrouded. The night waned; and still, with a bosom full of bitter thoughts of the one only and supremely beloved, I remained gazing upon the body of Rowena.

Here we have the Death of Rowena
10-03-2008, 12:29 PM
LC_Lancer

Oh. I was sooo close

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
Poe's narrators are often mysterious as to just where they are now, or whom they are telling thier stories too, as it is often the case they are recounting some horrific tale many years after it had already happend.

Yes, I agree, but if the ending is taken as what really happened, I was asking if he was still in his original body, or in a different one. Definitely a ‘tongue-in-cheek’ question. :)

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
As he paints a very gaudy, dark, gothic looking room, not a place that looks inviting. I think he is rather saying the parents agreed to the marraige inspite of the decour, not becasue of it.

I keyed on the word “bedecked”. The meaning I took was “to clothe with fine material”. The bridal chamber was dark, gloomy, but the rest of the house may not have been. He does say the parents had a “thirst of gold”, but that might mean her parents just wanted her to be in the same social-economic class that she was already in. One way to judge a man’s wealth is by the decorations, no matter how ‘gloomy’.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
I personaly never got the feeling that he decorated it himself but at some point within the story

I did. First, the woman usually decorated the house, but since he did not have a wife, he may have been left to choose on his own. Second, he remembered the details of the room and knew where some of the items came from.
He mentioned he stopped “wandering” and ‘settled down’ in England. I imagined he traveled around from Germany/Switzerland before arriving in England. He could have purchased some or all of the items on his travels.
I think he chose that county on purpose. Perhaps is fit his mood, or he liked the weather, or some other reason. I do not know. If he had instructions, then the material in the chamber and the chamber itself would have been chosen on purpose.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
I belevie it says that after his marraige he and Rowena stayed within the room for sometime

I agree. Read on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
This suggests they spent a great deal of time within the room, and in fact we never do see them outside of it. The room itself becomes a central part to his life, and it is the last place he is leading up to the events of the end of the story.

True. Not only does it suggest, it tells us, but the other rooms were not important to the conclusion of the story so he omitted it [either from his mind or the narrative]. Besides, he said he only remember this chamber’s minute details. He may not have trusted his memory with the other rooms and they were not that important. In the ensuing years, he may have simply forgotten the time they spent in the other rooms. A good example was the ebony couch.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
I do not think we are intended to beleive that Rowena was sick prior to the major,

[b]He did use the word ‘chronic’. Stripping away all present day meanings of the word, it could mean “long term” or “always present” That is why I wrote, “but this could have been the narrator’s point of view” of his wife’s illness. I could not rule out that she was sick before they met. That could be another indication why the parents chose him; he had the money to help her get better. I am only speculating.
I agree 100% that her illness might “have been induced both by the physcial invrioment and her own mental state” , but there are other possibilities. Read on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
I do not think the nature of the illness itself it intended to be imporant. Illness was quite common then, as well Poe experinced many deaths of women in his life.

True. When you factor in the number of diseases have increased from Poe’s time, the illness may not have even had a name yet thus it is not important. I mentioned it as a possibility that could be another reason how and why Rowena became ill.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
… I am sure than it would be frightening and a very emotional and psychologically experience for a girl to be "sold" by her parents to a man and to be ripped away from everything that is familiar to her. It would be doubly worse to be taken to such a dark ghastly place.

This may have been another reason why she lived him ‘little’. And he may not have loved her so she never felt at home. She could have died of a broken heart. One illness doctors still cannot cure today.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
That is another interesting thing, with Ligiea's illness there is no suggustion or mention of doctors attending to her at any time (Which could perhaps help suggest the theroy that she never was human to start with) for as much as he cared of Ligiea it seemed he never acutally saught outside help for her.

Ligeia grew ill slowly. The illness crept up on her and before she knew it she was dieing. Considering Ligeia’s strong personality, she may have refused the visit from a doctor. He may have forgotten her doctors since it was many years after her illness and the opium. He also states Ligeia died without any other detail. By the end of that paragraph, he was married again. He may not have wanted to re-live that part of his life.
Contrast that with Rowena, who became ill suddenly. Being a weaker personality, she consented to see the doctor. Then the narrator told us, in detail, how she was presented after she died. He gave us more details of Rowena’s death than her life.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 03:28 PM
Here with Rowena, she is attended to, also another interesting thing is the fact that if you think about it with Ligeia the narrator is the only one who ever "sees" her, that is at no point within the story is the ever any mention of other people, not directly.

That is according to the narrative. I think he was so in love with Ligeia that no one else mattered. One of the things he admired about her was her knowledge of the “modern dialects” of European languages. She could have made up the translation such as from a book, but I don’t think so. Another way for him to see her use the languages was to see her interact with people.
The narrator told us he was in love in the first paragraph by writing “was it rather a caprice of my own --a wildly romantic offering on the shrine of the most passionate devotion?” Since he was very much in love, he only told us about Ligeia while leaving the others out. I have known people who disregarded anything and anyone else save the person of their affection.

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 04:13 PM
You cannot deny that they were indeed viewed as savage at one point of time. And during the time Poe was wirting this story, he was writing to people that would hold that view.

Sure, but all groups were considered ‘savages’ at one time; usually by those who are not in that group. My point was they themselves did not consider themselves as savages. The people that Poe was writing for would have considered them savages’ because of the land where the lived, the mood of the story thus far, and most importantly, the readers were not in that group. The ‘savage’ reference was placed on purpose to contrast the narrator’s life and the history of the abbey/county.
10-03-2008, 12:54 PM
Dark Muse

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Sure, but all groups were considered ‘savages’ at one time; usually by those who are not in that group. My point was they themselves did not consider themselves as savages. The people that Poe was writing for would have considered them savages’ because of the land where the lived, the mood of the story thus far, and most importantly, the readers were not in that group. The ‘savage’ reference was placed on purpose to contrast the narrator’s life and the history of the abbey/county.

But what they thought of themselves has no relevence to this story. This story is not by any means a histrocial account. The point of the mention is to create a mood based upon what the readers of the story thought. The historical facts are completely irrelevent within the story of Ligeia.
10-03-2008, 02:28 PM
LC_Lancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer 10/3/08 12:29 PM
Sure, but all groups were considered ‘savages’ at one time; usually by those who are not in that group. My point was they themselves did not consider themselves as savages. The people that Poe was writing for would have considered them savages’ because of the land where the lived, the mood of the story thus far, and most importantly, the readers were not in that group. The ‘savage’ reference was placed on purpose to contrast the narrator’s life and the history of the abbey/county.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 12:54 PM
But what they thought of themselves has no relevence to this story. This story is not by any means a histrocial account. The point of the mention is to create a mood based upon what the readers of the story thought. The historical facts are completely irrelevent within the story of Ligeia.

Ok, the people’s view of themselves is not important to the story.

However, I cannot rule out the historically significance of any work I read. It was written at a certain time for the readers of that time. Beside, I teach history and it is always here.

I disagree with you on the last point, if historical facts are not important, it would be a work of Science Fiction.

We have a setting to the story, but only some indication to the time frame. The setting helps the story by allowing the reader to feel comfortable with the historical reference. Also, since the narrator mentioned the Rhine River specifically, we know it is in the continent of Europe which has ‘historical facts’ of its own to be taken into account. The Rhine River runs through Germany and Switzerland those two countries also have ‘historical facts’ that must be taken into account if one is to feel the depth of the story from all angles.

This is not a color coded post. :)
10-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Dark Muse

I was speaking specifically of the "savage" remark. What the tribes thought of themselves has nothing to do with Ligeia or the way Poe used the reference within the story.

I am a Traditional Pagan and my boyfriend is an ordained Druid and we are both Celts among other things. I do not need a lecture on the meaning or origins of the word savage. I made the reference specifically based upon its use within this story and how it would be perceived by the original intended audience of the story.

When Poe made those references I do not think he was thinking of the historical background, or political correctness He was thinking of just how his readers would be effected by what he was saying and the allusions he was made.
10-03-2008, 02:58 PM
LC_Lancer

You wrote,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/02/08 12:54 PM
The historical facts are completely irrelevent within the story of Ligeia.

So I replied to that sentence.
10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
Dark Muse

Quote:

She had just awakened from an unquiet slumber, and I had been watching, with feelings half of anxiety, half of vague terror, the workings of her emaciated countenance.

Though we know he does not care nor love his wife, he he does seem to at least care for her as a general human being. He does attend to her during her illness, and expresses anxiety over her condidtion.

Quote:

She partly arose, and spoke, in an earnest low whisper, of sounds which she then heard, but which I could not hear --of motions which she then saw, but which I could not perceive. The wind was rushing hurriedly behind the tapestries, and I wished to show her (what, let me confess it, I could not all believe) that those almost inarticulate breathings, and those very gentle variations of the figures upon the wall, were but the natural effects of that customary rushing of the wind.

And so it begins, and the curtians begin to play thier role within the story. Upon her sick bed Roewena begins to imagine that she hears and see things within the room which he himself does not. But we have already had an introduction to the strange workings of those white sheets, and we know of the drafty nature of the wind. So is there really something there, or is Rowena hallucinating within her sickly state, being locked away within such a place that would end the mind even of a healty person to wild fancies.

Quote:

I remembered where was deposited a decanter of light wine which had been ordered by her physicians, and hastened across the chamber to procure it. But, as I stepped beneath the light of the censer, two circumstances of a startling nature attracted my attention. I had felt that some palpable although invisible object had passed lightly by my person; and I saw that there lay upon the golden carpet, in the very middle of the rich lustre thrown from the censer, a shadow --a faint, indefinite shadow of angelic aspect --such as might be fancied for the shadow of a shade.

Here is an intersting passage. Whatever it is which has been disturbing Rowena, now seems to come to the attention of the narrator. He feels the pressence of an unseend object, and then the shadow.

Quote:

a faint, indefinite shadow of angelic aspect

It interesting that here he does use the word angelic to speak of this shadow of which he catches sight of. As the word was one he so often linked to his discritions of Ligiea.

Quote:

But I was wild with the excitement of an immoderate dose of opium, and heeded these things but little, nor spoke of them to Rowena.

Ah, but here we are told he is under the influence of opium at this moment, so Poe is toying with the mind of the reader. He plays with the supernatural always always inserting that seed of doubt.

Quote:

Having found the wine, I recrossed the chamber, and poured out a gobletful, which I held to the lips of the fainting lady. She had now partially recovered, however, and took the vessel herself, while I sank upon an ottoman near me, with my eyes fastened upon her person. It was then that I became distinctly aware of a gentle footfall upon the carpet, and near the couch; and in a second thereafter, as Rowena was in the act of raising the wine to her lips, I saw, or may have dreamed that I saw, fall within the goblet, as if from some invisible spring in the atmosphere of the room, three or four large drops of a brilliant and ruby colored fluid.

Perhaps one of the most interesting and mysterious parts of this whole story, and certinatly of his passage is this apperance of the strange red drops. No account is given of the nature of these drops. And there is so much speculation which can made about them. Are they drops of blood? Poision? A play of light? Pure hallucination?

Quote:

Yet I cannot conceal it from my own perception that, immediately subsequent to the fall of the ruby-drops, a rapid change for the worse took place in the disorder of my wife; so that, on the third subsequent night, the hands of her menials prepared her for the tomb, and on the fourth, I sat alone, with her shrouded body, in that fantastic chamber which had received her as my bride.

And here, after the fall of these strange drops we have Rowena's condidtion rapidly start to worsen until her final death.

Quote:

--Wild visions, opium-engendered, flitted, shadow-like, before me. I gazed with unquiet eye upon the sarcophagi in the angles of the room, upon the varying figures of the drapery, and upon the writhing of the parti-colored fires in the censer overhead. My eyes then fell, as I called to mind the circumstances of a former night, to the spot beneath the glare of the censer where I had seen the faint traces of the shadow. It was there, however, no longer; and breathing with greater freedom, I turned my glances to the pallid and rigid figure upon the bed. Then rushed upon me a thousand memories of Ligeia --and then came back upon my heart, with the turbulent violence of a flood, the whole of that unutterable wo with which I had regarded her thus enshrouded. The night waned; and still, with a bosom full of bitter thoughts of the one only and supremely beloved, I remained gazing upon the body of Rowena.

Here is more examples of Poe's wonderful prose. I also found it very interesting how much time the narrator spend in vigil over the dead Rowena, while we are given nothing about the funeral or ceremony of the death of Ligeia, yet for hours he sits besides the body of Rowena, watching.

Yet we have here, at the death of Rowena all his thoughts indeed fixed rather upon Ligeia instead.
10-06-2008, 01:24 PM
LC_Lancer

Ok I am lost. I do not know how your religion has anything to do with the word ‘savages’.
I do not think you or your boyfriend as ‘savages’, but some people would. Those people prove my point: they are outside of Druidism and Paganism they would use the term. You, on the inside, of the group do not see yourself that way. I find some aspects of Paganism very attractable to me. I have had about five students in my career to profess either Paganism or Wicca and one current student. None of them were ‘savages’.
Several times in this thread, I have been rebuffed because I have suggested that Poe had a different reason for using a term or sentence. The Norman and Druids are mentioned by name in the story to emit images of the readers’ imagination. Whether he wanted the readers to view them as ‘savages’, I do not know. The only time he used the term was to describe the land, not the people. Or the terms could have simply fit on the line.
====

I was not trying to lecture you on the ‘origins’ the word. I think you are intelligent enough to either know the term or look it up.

====

I thought it was very interesting that you submitted your edited comments at the same time I submitted my reply. :)
10-06-2008, 01:25 PM
LC_Lancer

Again, I did not read Dark Muse’s post before composing this. I will read it soon to see if we agree or disagree on things. Either way, it should be interesting.

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
One night, near the closing in of September, she pressed this distressing subject with more than usual emphasis upon my attention.

This is the only reference of a time of year. The abbey is in England, but how far north is unknown. It cannot be too far north in England, the Normans did not conquer all of England. But I cannot rule out trade between the peoples in England so the abbey may be in the furthest reaches of England.
The month reference indicates to me that the weather was getting colder, the days were getting shorter, and the lamps, torches, and candles would have been lit sooner in the day. That may have caused Rowena to sink further into her illness due to the strange light and shadows that flames throw against a wall decorated as the narrator described.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
She had just awakened from an unquiet slumber, and I had been watching, with feelings half of anxiety, half of vague terror, the workings of her emaciated countenance. I sat by the side of her ebony bed, upon one of the ottomans of India.

This line tells me three things:
1) She showed her terrors on her face.
2) She was becoming dangerously thin.
3) Married a month and already sleeping in separate beds. This marriage may not have been consummated. He might have meant something else when he wrote, “in a bridal chamber such as this --I passed, with the Lady of Tremaine, the unhallowed hours of the first month of our marriage…” I think this is another sign to show us that he did not love her, but he was beside her doing this time. However, the story could not move forward if he just let her die in another room.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
She partly arose, and spoke, in an earnest low whisper, of sounds which she then heard, but which I could not hear --of motions which she then saw, but which I could not perceive. The wind was rushing hurriedly behind the tapestries,

I think the narrator is telling us a storm was approaching (or had arrived). We all know something is coming, but at this time it is just the storm outside moving the tapestries. That storm will have its apex in the conclusion of the story. I think this is also a point to the reader that her visions could have been the irregular patterns in the tapestries that were moving due to the wind. This is to cast doubt on her visions as merely the figures on the tapestry seeming to be alive.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
But a deadly pallor, overspreading her face, had proved to me that my exertions to reassure her would be fruitless.

The narrator tried to show Rowena that there was nothing to be afraid of, but he could not convince her. I liked the use of ‘fruitless’ here by Poe. It is a word that could also be used to describe their marriage (both metaphorically and physically).

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
She appeared to be fainting, and no attendants were within call.

They had servants that lived within the abbey, but none were within shouting distance. Another indication of this will come later in the next section.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
But, as I stepped beneath the light of the censer, two circumstances of a startling nature attracted my attention. I had felt that some palpable although invisible object had passed lightly by my person; and I saw that there lay upon the golden carpet, in the very middle of the rich lustre thrown from the censer, a shadow --a faint, indefinite shadow of angelic aspect --such as might be fancied for the shadow of a shade.

These two things happen to him in the center of the room. I think this incident takes on a different meaning when you know the ending, but then he wrote,

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
But I was wild with the excitement of an immoderate dose of opium, and heeded these things but little, nor spoke of them to Rowena.

Thus we cannot rule out the strong dose of a terrible substance that dulls the scenes. The footsteps could have been a servant, but by the time the narrator registered the sounds, the servant was already out of the door.
One interesting point to me was this is the first time he calls his wife by her first name ONLY. This shows to me a familiarity that was absent from the last few paragraphs. Maybe he was beginning to like her since he had been there with her.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
It was then that I became distinctly aware of a gentle footfall upon the carpet, and near the couch; and in a second thereafter, as Rowena was in the act of raising the wine to her lips, I saw, or may have dreamed that I saw, fall within the goblet, as if from some invisible spring in the atmosphere of the room, three or four large drops of a brilliant and ruby colored fluid.

If the heavy dose of opium did fool his eyes regarding drops and goblet, I think it takes away from the supernatural ending.
If the drops appeared out of midair, then we have to ask where they came from. It could have been the shadow earlier mentioned by the narrator.
If the opium fooled his brain to see a simple slosh of the goblet as drops from midair, then we do not know if the wine itself her sicker.
Either way, Rowena became sicker after drinking the wine. Her illness may have been accelerated by the wine or it may have been a natural progression of the illness. We do knot what actually killed her: the wine or the illness.

===

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Yet I cannot conceal it from my own perception that, immediately subsequent to the fall of the ruby-drops, a rapid change for the worse took place in the disorder of my wife; so that, on the third subsequent night, the hands of her menials prepared her for the tomb, and on the fourth, I sat alone, with her shrouded body, in that fantastic chamber which had received her as my bride. –

So even though he has a large dose in him, he says with great fortitude that she became sicker. On the forth night she died, as per with tradition, and the fact there were no funeral homes and people were buried on the grounds, Rowena is prepared for burial in the very room where she died as she awaits her tomb to be prepared by the servants.

==

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
Wild visions, opium-engendered, flitted, shadow-like, before me. I gazed with unquiet eye upon the sarcophagi in the angles of the room, upon the varying figures of the drapery, and upon the writhing of the parti-colored fires in the censer overhead.

He is setting the scene and reminding us of the situation to cause serious doubt on the events that follow. It is needed to slow down the story so the reader will not jump from one part of the story without seeing the entire picture.

==

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
My eyes then fell, as I called to mind the circumstances of a former night, to the spot beneath the glare of the censer where I had seen the faint traces of the shadow. It was there, however, no longer; and breathing with greater freedom,

The drops were from the night before. Rowena did not linger after the drinking the spiked liquid. However, he tells us there that the opium is wearing off so the narrative can be believed, but just slightly more.

==

Quote:

Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
I turned my glances to the pallid and rigid figure upon the bed. Then rushed upon me a thousand memories of Ligeia --and then came back upon my heart, with the turbulent violence of a flood, the whole of that unutterable wo with which I had regarded her thus enshrouded. The night waned; and still, with a bosom full of bitter thoughts of the one only and supremely beloved, I remained gazing upon the body of Rowena

Rowena’s body reminded him of Ligeia. It may have the shroud, the material, the grief, or the angle. Not only did he remember Ligeia in death, but also a ton of memories of Ligeia when she was alive. This moment could have tainted him even more than the opium, or the feeble memory, or the intervening years than even he wanted to admit.
10-06-2008, 02:31 PM
Dark Muse

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC_Lancer

Ok I am lost. I do not know how your religion has anything to do with the word ‘savages’.
I do not think you or your boyfriend as ‘savages’, but some people would. Those people prove my point: they are outside of Druidism and Paganism they would use the term. You, on the inside, of the group do not see yourself that way. I find some aspects of Paganism very attractable to me. I have had about five students in my career to profess either Paganism or Wicca and one current student. None of them were ‘savages’.
Several times in this thread, I have been rebuffed because I have suggested that Poe had a different reason for using a term or sentence. The Norman and Druids are mentioned by name in the story to emit images of the readers’ imagination. Whether he wanted the readers to view them as ‘savages’, I do not know. The only time he used the term was to describe the land, not the people. Or the terms could have simply fit on the line.
====

I was not trying to lecture you on the ‘origins’ the word. I think you are intelligent enough to either know the term or look it up.

====

I thought it was very interesting that you submitted your edited comments at the same time I submitted my reply. :)

It just seems to me you are not looking at things within the context of how they are used within the story. As well I thought it was perfectly clear that I was speaking of ther terms as they were presented within the story and would be preceived by the readers Poe was writing for.

How the Druids, or the Normans, or whatever acutally viewed themselves, or the fact that they did not call themselves savages has nothing to do with the story, it seemed you just felt the need to lecture me on that point, while I was trying to speak to the story itself.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page