Banned books

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Originally Posted by Logos

I posted this in the Mark Twain Huckleberry Finn "This book is racist" topic

I think that censorship or basically blaming a book for inciting any sort of violence is an ill-aimed panacea.

I think that most `normal' well-adjusted people process some of the more disturbing information/literature/media out there and remain `normal'.

The minority ill-adjusted dysfunctional person will end up doing any number of anti-social acts if they go on living their life without any realisation that they need help, until they end up in jail or something. A book can be a convenient way out I suppose.

Kids who enact `revenge' or violence of some sort on their peers are disturbed and ill-adjusted and need help. They will find guns or violence or whatever else to express their outrage and anger. I think there is not enough prevention in place to staunch such need in the first place. Oh ya, but parents can blame the govt. on how their kids are turning out, blame school system etc.

People start believing that the gov'ts job is to protect them from disturbing things. People start forgetting how to make their own moral and value judgements, they don't have to because the gov't. is thinking for them.

That is disturbing. :)

I think that one has to take into account the premise of a book, why it was written.

Is it a non-fictional instruction manual?
Is it revisionist fiction history?
Is it an autobiographical memoir?

Thankfully there are books being written, even today, that are direct result of the current culture. So that in 100 years from now someone will get an idea of how things were in our time. No it isn't all rainbows and roses :)

You have a point Scher about drawing the line.. but I still think it's more accurate and authentic to have a wide-range of `literature' from any given point in history for future reference. So in Twain's time, what if all his books had been censored and burned and we now don't have an accurate portrayal of African-American history? I don't want my history sanitised, I want to know how wretchedly horrible Hitler was, so hopefully it never happens again.

Children unfortunately have to be exposed to uncomfortable ugly things sooner or later. If I had children of my own, of course my responsibility, I would do my utmost to prepare them for the ugly things in this world that will IMO never go away. At least I can hope that they will then be well-adjusted people armed and ready to deal with such moral and social quandry. Exposure to the dogma and beliefs of religious sects and splinter groups included. ;)

Sweeping things under the rug doesn't make them go away, the accumulation will just trip you up and come back to haunt you. In My Opinion, Your Mileage May Vary.

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I wholeheartedly agree! However, pornography isnt often harmful. Our imaginations contribute greatly to sexual activity, and our imagination consists of images from erotica. I will say that certain porn is bad, such as mock-rape scenes and violent S&M, but normally, erotica consists of consenting adults who know that they are being filmed. Not all porn is harmful.

As much as I am against banning of books, I believe that certain books should be read at different age levels. Hold Cather in the Rye off until high school, please. It is the outright removal of books from the curriculum for illegitimate reasons ("So-and-So is a radical who didn't like African-Americans"), that I get upset about. I think Ray Bradbury puts the process of book-banning succinctly in F451 when Montag was speaking with the Captain.

On irresponsible parents, my ex-neighbors, who moved out 7 or so years ago, were very sheltered from reality, they grew up in a strict Christian household, weren't allowed to SEE a vieogame system, let alone own one (one of the two brothers asked "Whats a Nintendo 64?") and the mother was the end-all-be-all. One of the two kids whom I was friends with, actually said to me "Puberty? That sounds bad. I dont want that."

Well, parents, "what you dont know cant hurt you" is the biggest, most destructive lie ever perptuated by supposedly intelligent people.

When I have kids of my own, I am going to give them the knowledge they truly need to make educated, intelligent decisions based on relative morality (that includes the positive side of sexual activity as well as the risks!).

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Originally Posted by Nobody

Banning books is awful, and why would you burn a book?

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Banning is impossible,they just go underground.Burning a book is one of the least violent forms of protesting an attack on ones phylosophical perspective.
Salman Rushdi had a million dollar bounty for writing "The Satanic Letters." I'll bet he would have preferred that Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and the boys would have just held a bon fire of his book.

i thought i've responded to something like this, but oh well.

a bibliophile myself, i actually don't disagree with book-banning. i don't know much about how book-banning really works (are we talking domestic book-banning? international-wide?), but i think excluding certain books from the school's library is not a bad idea. yes, the world is harsh, and children will know the be exposed to the truth eventually, but if i were a parent, i'd rather my children stay innocent for as long as they can. they have only what, 12 years to be children? (the number is decreasing with every passing year) and the rest of their life to be kicked and punched and spat on in the face (can be figuratively or literally).

it's also worth remembering that some books are, well, trash. if i were a dictator and the world is under my control, for example, i'd ban all those paperback romance novels. :p there are also books that are way too graphic and explicit that they'd best stay inside people's head instead of written, plausible for children to accidentally see.

granted, book-burning is stupid and a waste of paper and trees. and those who condemn harry potter because it includes wizardry and stuff are, to put it gently, dum.

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Originally Posted by MiSaNtHrOpE

I wholeheartedly agree! However, pornography isnt often harmful. Our imaginations contribute greatly to sexual activity, and our imagination consists of images from erotica. I will say that certain porn is bad, such as mock-rape scenes and violent S&M, but normally, erotica consists of consenting adults who know that they are being filmed. Not all porn is harmful.

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Not sure if this was directed at me? I wasn't specifically referring to porn in my post although that too is something I feel has no reason to be banned by the government :)

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Originally Posted by underground

i thought i've responded to something like this, but oh well.

a bibliophile myself, i actually don't disagree with book-banning. i don't know much about how book-banning really works (are we talking domestic book-banning? international-wide?), but i think excluding certain books from the school's library is not a bad idea. yes, the world is harsh, and children will know the be exposed to the truth eventually, but if i were a parent, i'd rather my children stay innocent for as long as they can. they have only what, 12 years to be children? (the number is decreasing with every passing year) and the rest of their life to be kicked and punched and spat on in the face (can be figuratively or literally).

it's also worth remembering that some books are, well, trash. if i were a dictator and the world is under my control, for example, i'd ban all those paperback romance novels. :p there are also books that are way too graphic and explicit that they'd best stay inside people's head instead of written, plausible for children to accidentally see.

granted, book-burning is stupid and a waste of paper and trees. and those who condemn harry potter because it includes wizardry and stuff are, to put it gently, dum.

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I think this looks familiar also? Dejavu for two perhaps.

Most of us here, I think, are using values (good, awful, bad, acceptable in some terms),thus we're talking in qualitative term, In person to person level, the question about banning books is a relative thing.

For example, underground stated:

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it's also worth remembering that some books are, well, trash.

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Now, If I were to ask him/her some titles which he considered as trash, there is a posibillity that other members, including myself, would challenge him.

The subjectivity, course, also apply to people who have the authorities to ban or not to ban certain publications, because they are using their knowledge/values/norms/religious/political bakcgrounds to make determination.

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Originally Posted by okmit

Banning is impossible,they just go underground.Burning a book is one of the least violent forms of protesting an attack on ones phylosophical perspective.
Salman Rushdi had a million dollar bounty for writing "The Satanic Letters." I'll bet he would have preferred that Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and the boys would have just held a bon fire of his book.

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I can't believe that this was posted. What about the Nazi's in Germany? They would hold rallies regularly burning banned books. Its a form of mind control. Actually, I'm offended by the thought of it.

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Originally Posted by MiSaNtHrOpE

I wholeheartedly agree! However, pornography isnt often harmful. Our imaginations contribute greatly to sexual activity, and our imagination consists of images from erotica. I will say that certain porn is bad, such as mock-rape scenes and violent S&M, but normally, erotica consists of consenting adults who know that they are being filmed. Not all porn is harmful.

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I didn't mean that porn is harmful to the adult performing the activity...were talking about books not films, that would just be silly of me. But since you brought it up i will be silly and oblige. Porn is harmful psychologically to the viewer if he/she tends to use a lot of it (in films, books, magazines ...). Furthermore, pornography is one of the most addictive things i can think of (next to television).
This hits quite close to home with me, and I am willing to explain to you why in a more intimate setting, so if you wish to know please send me a private message via this website. Just please don't assume that such a blaspheme against such a beautiful loveing act is harmless.

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Originally Posted by IrishCanadian

Porn is harmful psychologically to the viewer if he/she tends to use a lot of it (in films, books, magazines ...). Furthermore, pornography is one of the most addictive things i can think of (next to television).

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And so does alcohol....

Well, alcohol is bad, but if they ban a book with it in it, then wouldn't people be wantign to know more about it, then drink instead of read... weird, but just a question.

i think this whole business of banning books is really uncalled for. maybe it is justified when people do bombs and things like that but really, things like porn and the like should be given age brackets and not banned altogether. you see, what may be normal to one person may be porn to another. i think what should happen is that people should be given the freedom to read what they want and judge for themselves whether its good or bad.

It depends what people mean by "banning books."
Certainly there are books that should be banned in Jr.High, Elementary, maybe even high school. With the way children interact with each other there are some things that should not be brought to their attention.
But "Mein Kampf" is banned in Gemany- One cannot forget history. They are trying to ban it in Canada, books are knowledge that shouldn't be erased.

I’m curious what everyone thinks about books that are blatant lies such as Japan trying to rewrite their history regarding their relations with China and the Nazi's stating the Holocaust never happened and the old history books of the South that totally discredit the North and why the war was fought. My mother who’s from Kentucky has an old school book like that and any child reading that back in the 50's could have easily grown up to be completely ignorant of the truth unless a wiser, unbiased person stepped in to enlighten them.

Excelent point, hmmm. I'd probably ask it only to be published with a forward by a hired historian (easier said than done). Because such political atrocities are a good insite to historical propaganda and political power struggles.

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Originally Posted by IrishCanadian

Excelent point, hmmm. I'd probably ask it only to be published with a forward by a hired historian (easier said than done). Because such political atrocities are a good insite to historical propaganda and political power struggles.

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Ah, but for the right price I bet you can pay anyone to write whatever you want ;)

`Peer review' process is only so good as the body governing it's actions. If it's the propaganda-based, then they're all on the `wrong' idea, right? but they don't care they're getting their message across.