Says you with the pretty screwed up attitude towards other people. Says you that defends the idea of forever burning people. You sound extremely screwed up.
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Says you with the pretty screwed up attitude towards other people. Says you that defends the idea of forever burning people. You sound extremely screwed up.
AHHH! I had a lousy day! I can't write properly now, leave me be. I DON'T defend it, that's my point. That hell isn't eternal fire. That it's a place without God. THAT'S MY POINT. [didn't mean you were screwed up]
*sigh* didn't clarify my point properly anyway... forget about it.
Fayefaye,
Sorry you had a terrible day. I'm sure things will eventually get better:)
I don't see why Muslims, Jews or anyone can't go to heaven, especially jews before christ, how were they supposed to know?! I suppose if Hitler really repented he might go to Heaven but I personally can't see it happening. It could God works miracles but one more naturally thinks of Hitler trying to send God down for being the originator of Jewish faith or something.Quote:
Originally posted by the ring
I've heard the observation before from protestants that, in accordance with biblical creed, hitler himself might be in heaven.
though, I'm convinced he was an atheist (at best), I still think it's really awful that someone like him could make it to heaven while a jew or a muslim couldn't. morally, I just can't accept that.
Precisely.Quote:
Originally posted by fayefaye
AHHH! I had a lousy day! I can't write properly now, leave me be. I DON'T defend it, that's my point. That hell isn't eternal fire. That it's a place without God. THAT'S MY POINT. [didn't mean you were screwed up]
OK. First of all, there are two pages of posts on this thread that I havn't read yet. I just wanted to respond to this question before I got sidetracked, so I may be repeating someone.Quote:
Originally posted by atiguhya padma
IWilKiku,
<Furthermore, how would you enjoy Heaven, knowing that there are billions of souls suffering endless torture?>
I really am serious. I would like to know how you or any other Christian is preparing to enjoy their eternal life with this kind of knowledge.
I am Christian, from time to time :confused: :confused: however, most prodestant denomanations, including mine, do not believe in a literal hell. In fact if you look at the original Greek and Hebrew, the bible doesn't even use the word "hell" or any word that has the concept of eternal suffering. The idea of hell came from a verse in Rev. Where John says something about the Devil being cast into a lake of fire with all his minions to suffer eternally. People quote this out of context all the time. He was describing what he saw in his vision. He also saw beasts coming out of the sea and brainwashing people, but no one believes that that is literally going to happen. The translaters of the KJV put "Hell" in for lack of a better word. The Greek word is actually more like "Nothing, or Void" but a void that only the dead exist in. The translater's "Hell" came from the Greek "Hades" which does not appear in the Greek New Testament. He was also bitten by a deadly poisonous snake before dictating this book to his scribe. He was dying and could have just been hallucinating (I mentioned this in a religeon class and was nearly burnt at the stake as a heratic :eek: ). You'll have to ask someone who believes in a literal hell, ie. Roman Catholic, Anglican, or Orthodox. But most prodestants don't buy it.
I'm sorry you felt offended, but now you know how I felt with some of your posts, too. There's a lot of things that could deserve burns forever, and a lot of people too. Personally, I have in mind people of the quality of Videla, Massera, Galtieri, Onganía, Pinochet, Margaret Thatcher, Saddam, Hitler, Bush, Stalin, Neron, Mussolini, and others when I wish that there was a hell. I don't think that what they did to other people (most of them completely innocent) is incomparable to them burning for eternity. If you can't relate to this, too bad.Quote:
Originally posted by atiguhya padma
I find this statement incredibly offensive:
<Yet another explanation could be that you know that people are burning in hell, but you don't resent that, because it's their fair punishment for what they did in life (and I do wish for some people to burn in hell, because that would do the justice that hasn't been served on Earth).>
Fayefaye thought I was horrible for comparing the actions of Stalin and Hitler to some of God's actions. Yet the burning of people in Auschwitz, in the act itself, is, as an act, incomparable to eternal burning of a human being. Forever suffering 1st degree burns is fair punishment???? For what? What could possibly deserve this? And this is something you wish for Crisaor!! You are inhuman. Why don't you burn a few people who deserve it here on earth? Why wait til they get to hell. I guess you would have been one of those Christians celebrating at the burning of the witches during the inquisition.
I'm very human, of course. And I wouldn't burn anyone. And obviously, I don't approve the Inquisition. But then again, this pathetic assumptions you keep making don't surprise me anynmore. I hope you end up quitting them.
This kind of "inhumanity" is simply the desire to have some justice in the afterlife, when it hasn't been served on earth (none of the people I mentioned ever went to jail to serve time for the horrible crimes they commited). Yeah, now I'm guilty of you not respecting religion. Right. Take some responsability for your actions.Quote:
Originally posted by atiguhya padma
You are unbelievable Crisaor. Just unbelievable. This is why I find it so difficult to respect all beliefs. Because some people, like you, harbour the most dark and atrocious desires. I can have no faith in a profession of belief that can engender this kind of inhumanity.
Can't you get away from this eye for an eye rubbish!! Can't you see how this kind of thinking, your kind of thinking has screwed the world up??
Tell me do you think it has really helped in the war torn places of the world?
A person by definition in my book does not deserve eternal burning. I am an atheist, and yet even I can see how that such a punisher is inhuman. How can you inflict pain on someone because they themselves have inflicted pain? The world seems to run on your fine principles Crisaor. You must feel quite happy with the world.
If you think what your list of despots did to people deserves eternal suffering, then I can only assume you fail to understand the terms 'eternal' or 'suffering'.
<I'm very human, of course. And I wouldn't burn anyone.>
Well you could always get someone to do your dirty work for you. Why is it that after death you can feel fine about someone eternally burning, but can't seem to stomach the idea in life? Tell me what's the difference? Because if there is a difference, then somebody killing someone in life surely just deserves death in this life don't they? not eternal suffering. I am glad to see that people like Cassandra and Fayefaye don't share your disgusting views.
<Sigh>
For the eleventh time, you keep misunderstanding me, deliberately, or so it seems. If I agreed with the eye for an eye thing, I would shoot them myself. And getting someone to do it for me enters that categorie. Again, I don't think like that. If we can't punish the guilty ones that commited crimes against humanity (with jail for life, I don't support the death penalty), then I hope God does, otherwise, they'll get away with it. Maybe to you justice isn't important, to me it is.
And how come you speak of tolerance to me? You've mocked anyone who dared to say "I believe in God". Your double rethoric doesn't fool anyone. If you consider my views disgusting, I guess I'm right.
Crisaor,
You don't support the death penalty but do support eternal suffering???
Man you are some scary creature!
Crisaor,
Don't you think you should forgive that hate list of yours? I am not saying you should respect them or accept them and their actions, but shouldn't you forgive them?
Yes. I don't feel that anyone is capable (everyone is capable, actually, what I mean is that no one has the right) of taking another life, no matter what the other did.
Eternal suffering is a judgement made by God, and the God I believe in happens to be perfect, so, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Aren't you asking for much? Forgiving Hitler??? or Videla? or Pinochet? Surely you're teasing me...
If I had seen them rot in jail, probably I wouldn't hate them that much, though.
Hate isn't the kind of four letter word I would normally associate with Christians. But for you Crisaor, I will make an exception.
So what do you mean by perfect? Are you trying to say all his actions, all his creations are perfect?
I'm now looking out of the window on Crisaor's perfect world!