Is English A Difficult Language?

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Originally Posted by Fango

Hey, if you had written "I can only hope my English will HAVE improved one day" you would have captured "future present continuous" :D

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Yes... but that's exactly my problem - while I know teoretically when and how to use it and always get A on exam, in real life, when I don't know that I am tested in future perfect and I don't focus on it, I never remember it even exists. :D For me, it's natural that words are modified according to gender or plural. The fact that in English it's not so, is one of the reasons I think it's difficult. But I guess everyone considers his own language to be easy and other languages to be much more difficult.

And I'm quite suspicious about "vocabulary without grammar". What's the point of knowing many words, if you don't know how they work together, how to put them into sentence. I tried to learn English without grammar and it was nonsense. I like learning grammar, although it's difficult.

But I must say, I only begin to like it when I came to university and we begin to study from normal grammar books (e.g. Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English). All those coursebooks, or grammar books like Murphy's Grammar are confusing, unsystematicall, never really explaining anything. Duiring all these years, I had been studying from about 20 different coursebooks and grammarbooks, and they were all completely same - nice pictures, maybe even interesting articles, but as for grammar, it was just mentioned, never properly explained.

I don't think English is a difficult language. I gradually learned English from cartoons, TV, and all that jazz, though that doesn't say much, because it's a proven fact that children pick up languages way faster than adults. In the past, I found it rather difficult to speak English, but as time passed, I grow more and more used to it, and now I can speak English quite well, sometimes even without a clear accent. :)

I have a feeling, though, that I've made a whole bunch of grammar mistakes in this post. Oh well, Murphy's Law, I guess.

Well, for the record I didn't say "vocabulary without grammar", just that not focusing on it seems to work miracles. I always say that if you got the basic tenses figured-out, you just need words, and the rest you can pick up naturally as you go along.

"future present continuous" is a hardly-used tense anyway in my experience. If you know it theoretically, you just need the opportune moment, and they rarely come for this tense. No worries though, you may surprise yourself sooner or later by using it out of the blue. That's how I happened to it. :)

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Originally Posted by Fango

Yes, it's not a perfectly phonemic language, however compared to French... ooof.

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That's not true. French has spelling rules, so a certain combination of letters gives the same sound in 99,9% of cases (exceptions exist). That doesn't happen in English, as it has been pointed out already.

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Originally Posted by Aunty-lion

I'm a native English speaker and I'm currently learning the indigenous language of my country (Maori) so I guess I'm finally finding out what it's like to have the shoe on the other foot, and be speaking in a language I'm unsure of.

In my country, one of our main problems with education and language is that we are a very multicultural country and therefore we have a lot of immigrants who don't speak English or are just beginning to learn. This is not the problem though.

The problem is, that a lot of these immigrants think that English is the only useful language, so they choose to speak to their children only in English and don't teach them their native tongue. Often, the English of the parents is not very good, so instead of their children being able to speak good Samoan (or Hindi or Cantonese or Arabic etc etc), they wind up having NO language with which they speak confidently enough to express themselves in. This in turn makes it incredibly hard for them to learn any other languages in the future.

I think that the most important thing in learning any language, is to first have a "native" language (whether it is the language of your ancestors or not) that you are really truly fluent in. Only then will you have the ability to be able to express yourself clearly in any other languages.

I realize that it is still a hard thing to learn a second (or third or fourth) language. I find it hard every day. But I feel blessed that I can express myself in English, and hope for the day when I am just as fluent in Maori.

By the way, everyone on this forum seems to be very confident and understandable (even if the grammar isn't always 100%) so well done if it's not your first language!!! I know I sound really awful when I speak Maori.

I wonder if the problems I've described apply to any of your countries??

Aunty-lion

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This is very interesting, I had no idea of that, I think most immigrants I know do speak their native language at home... we're only starting to have a second generation of immigrants in my country, we'll see what happens.

To me, learning foreign languages is so much a part of my life that I find it as natural as reading the newspaper or any other activity you do at least once a week or so. Well I'm not really studying anymore but I think a lot about languages and try to pick up as much as I can... Unfortunately I'm only this comfortable in English, but with some difficulties and mistakes I can hold a conversation in other 2-3 languages... but I would like to be fluent in many more so I feel I'm only partially skilled...:crash:

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Originally Posted by Koa

That's not true. French has spelling rules, so a certain combination of letters gives the same sound in 99,9% of cases (exceptions exist). That doesn't happen in English, as it has been pointed out already.

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Well, I have no doubt you're right but, and my apologies here, it wasn't really what I meant to say... more like that it (French) has nonsensical spelling rules EVEN compared to English. They just abused or misread the point of the Latin Alphabet or something. ;)

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Originally Posted by Fango

Well, I have no doubt you're right but, and my apologies here, it wasn't really what I meant to say... more like that it (French) has nonsensical spelling rules EVEN compared to English. They just abused or misread the point of the Latin Alphabet or something. ;)

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Then you don't know Hungarian :lol:

Well, point one, every language's spelling rules make sense if seen from the point of view of that language.
Point two, English can't make more sense simply because it practically has no spelling rules...

An argument between I and a friend reminded me of this almost 'dying' thread. Thus I feel like re-incarnating it by telling you how it happened some few days ago. And that's...

He said English is hedeosly & grisly difficult. Then I asked him what makes it so...He instantly said; its inconsistencies in written and how it pronounces. I laughed at his discovery and following my reaction he further stressed another point by adding; "It's inregularity also is another biggest problem." By so saying, I asked him to give me example (s), so he started: Present Perfect of the word 'read' is read and its Past Tense is read...etc. He so far so good gave me numerous examples of this nature.

Hmm...what can you say about his claim?

Thanks

Someone wiser than I is believed to have said once: "Everything's relative". I think the difficulty in learning English rests in many factors, including how different your native language is from English. As an Italian who has spent some time in England, I feel quite confortable with grammar and books but I have serious problems understanding spoken English. Of course I tend to use the words derived from Latin (I'll say "create the atmosphere", rather than "create the mood"). My main difficulties are with:
- spelling and pronunciation. I agree with whoever wrote you're never quite sure how to pronounce the English words you read and how to spell the ones you hear. In Italian, in most cases every vowel has always the same sound, even in different words: "a" (sounds like "a" in "accent"), "e" ("egg"), i ("sheet") "o" ("ball"), "u" ("hoover"). We don't have any sound like "i" as in "ship", so the gentlemen here can easily hear some rude Italian call them "son of a beach":yawnb:, or swear "sheet!". The most obstinate of us won't deal with the fact that "ea" in "meat" sounds different than in "pleasure", and will claim it's been "a pleesure" to meet you!
- prepositions. Nightmare! Italian words are very specific, expressions like "get in", "get out", "get off", "get up" are translated in Italian with different verbs with a very different morphology. That is a bit confusing for me!
- exceptions. I find English grammar quite easy (even though I apparently received little benefit from that!), especially after I had to study Ancient Greek (crazy!). But my grammar book had no expressions like "gotta go", "you liked it?" "ain't it?". Nevertheless, unlike Italian, English changes very fast as well, which I like a lot. But it's hard to keep myself updated.
- abbreviations and acronyms. g'n't, blt, nhs... Help! If you have no idea what they're talking about, you'll better ask or you'll get more and more lost.
- expressions. You really need to be surrounded by native speakers in order to learn. Morever, a language also shapes your way of thinking. My ex boyfriend, a Mancunian, used to complain that I used the expression "to be in love" too easily, which is very common in Italian. When I wanted to be romantic I hardly found suitable expressions for the things I wanted to say, so I had to learn English romance! For example, I wanted to inform my ex his lips were "carnose", an Italian adjective my online dictionary translates with "fleshy, meaty, pulpy", which don't sound very sexy to me. So I remembered Hardy's "Tess", and, forgetting that the book had been written very long ago, I went: "Your lips are bewitching!". He replied "What?!":blush: .

We have a German foreign exchange student and he speaks English rather well, at least compared to the Norwegian that came last year. Actually, come to think of it, he speaks a lot better than the Norwegian. When we tease him about his errors in speaking, he tells us to learn German for five years and go to Germany as a foreign exchange student. He tries to use big words that he learns in our English class and often complicates things (which is humorous, to say the least). For instance, yesterday he asked our chemistry teacher, "May I quench my thirst by utilizing the dihydrogen oxide fountain?" (In other words, "May I get a drink?"). Today I told him to ask our chem teacher, "May I quench my thirst by eliciting a contenting amount of dihydrogen oxide from the drinking fountain? I fear I might become rather vitriolic if I don't satisfy my internal dissatisfaction in this manner, for such is my altering temper that I am prone to commence many an altercation with whomever might refuse to satisfy my request." :D

He seems to grasp the language easier than most foreign exchange students.

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Originally Posted by Dori

He tries to use big words that he learns in our English class and often complicates things (which is humorous, to say the least). For instance, yesterday he asked our chemistry teacher, "May I quench my thirst by utilizing the dihydrogen oxide fountain?" (In other words, "May I get a drink?"). Today I told him to ask our chem teacher, "May I quench my thirst by eliciting a contenting amount of dihydrogen oxide from the drinking fountain? I fear I might become rather vitriolic if I don't satisfy my internal dissatisfaction in this manner, for such is my altering temper that I am prone to commence many an altercation with whomever might refuse to satisfy my request." :D
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lol Yeah, that is a common mistake for people whose native language, compared to English, is rather verbose. Have you ever watched "Love and Death on Long Island"? Everybody makes fun of the protagonist's posh English, whereas he was the only one I could fully understand! I felt silly.

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Originally Posted by metal134

Wow. You guys are crazy. As an American who has spoken English all my life, and speaks it better than most people I know, I can't believe you all say it's an easy language. In my opinion, it is an INCREDIBLY difficult language to learn. And why? Because it is one of the most complex languages there is. I took some spanish in high school and have had exposure to Italian due to my ancestory and those languages are easy because the rules are straight forward and simple. But English has an incredible amount of rules and stipulations and the language doesn't even always follow those rules; there are an enormous number of exceptions. All these rules like i before e excpet after c and yet, look at words like science, policies, consciece, etc. Boatloads of similar, often misused words like affet/effect, between/among, lie/lay, etc. I saw a Gallagher skit once where he compared a bunch of words and how they sound and are spelled. Look at words like comb, tomb, bomb. All spelled the same except for the root letter, all sound different. Comb, home, roam. All sound the same, all spelled different. It seems easy to those who have spoken it all our lives, but I don't buy the notion for one second that this as an easy language. It is, in fact, one of the hardest.

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The hardest thing for me was to learn to pronounce English. In Finnish everything is pronounced exactly the same whay than it is written, so it was a shock to realise that in English you can never know for sure how a new word should be said until you hear someone to use it. I don't think that spelling is the difficult part in English, but that may be because when you study study a foreign language, you usually have most of the material written and you learn the spelling automatically.

English is difficult to me .I think it is not my problem it is the problem everyone facing.I thought that reading English books.news papers and listen to English movie will help very much.are you agree with me?

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Originally Posted by sreeja

English is difficult to me .I think it is not my problem it is the problem everyone facing.I thought that reading English books.news papers and listen to English movie will help very much.are you agree with me?

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Wholly agree with you dear. It really hepls...that's why I too depend heavily at this.

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Originally Posted by Fango

Well, I have no doubt you're right but, and my apologies here, it wasn't really what I meant to say... more like that it (French) has nonsensical spelling rules EVEN compared to English. They just abused or misread the point of the Latin Alphabet or something. ;)

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Every language has different ways of spelling letters or combinations of letters. You know what about -ed in english or -th, do you pronounce the letters as they are? No. English is not standard and there is no "standard" way of spelling latin letters, that's why we need a phonetic spelling.

My native language is french, but I would say that mot of the difficulties in french is not the spelling, but the grammar rules, but we should say the grammar rules and their exceptions, as there is about the same amount of both :p But at least, we don't have declensions :D

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Originally Posted by Etienne

Every language has different ways of spelling letters or combinations of letters. You know what about -ed in english or -th, do you pronounce the letters as they are? No. English is not standard and there is no "standard" way of spelling latin letters, that's why we need a phonetic spelling.

My native language is french, but I would say that mot of the difficulties in french is not the spelling, but the grammar rules, but we should say the grammar rules and their exceptions, as there is about the same amount of both :p But at least, we don't have declensions :D

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Don't know or it's only me, as I don't know about in French, that I some times hear the pronounciation of it sound similar, in a bit way, with that English. Is that right?