Are humans special or are we nothing more the mere rabbits

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Originally Posted by Turk

Nazis and Communist had many common parts, both two regime affected from Materialism and Darwinism.

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Hitler was a Catholic (though obviously not a very good one) and Stalin was a Lamarkian. In other words: no.

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Originally Posted by Turk

As i see Materialism is dominant philosophy in western world. In a Capitalist world Materialism have to be dominant philosophy, because true goals of religion completely opposite of Capitalism.

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I'm very very very unclear on why you think capitalism and materialism are realated, unless you are using both definitions of the word 'materialism' simultaneously. The most laissez-faire country in the world has only ever had protestants as leaders, with the exception of George Washington (probably a deist) and JFK (a Catholic). Some people (Max Weber) think that capitalism is an ideology born of protestantism. In fact, it seems to me that the most heavily atheistic western countries, such as Sweden and Iceland, tend to be the most socialist. I, by the way, am both a materialist and a socialist.

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Hitler was a Catholic (though obviously not a very good one) and Stalin was a Lamarkian. In other words: no.

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And Marks was a Jewish while Nietzsche was a Protestant.

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I'm very very very unclear on why you think capitalism and materialism are realated, unless you are using both definitions of the word 'materialism' simultaneously. The most laissez-faire country in the world has only ever had protestants as leaders, with the exception of George Washington (probably a deist) and JFK (a Catholic). Some people (Max Weber) think that capitalism is an ideology born of protestantism. In fact, it seems to me that the most heavily atheistic western countries, such as Sweden and Iceland, tend to be the most socialist.

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Materialism and Capitalism are completely related. Like two brothers.

And yeah about Scandinavian countries. Sweden is not Socialist but Swedish state is a social state, but if there wouldn't be Volvo, Scania or Ikea there wouldn't be "most" social state of the world too. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Turk

And Marks was a Jewish while Nietzsche was a Protestant.

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Marx and Neitzche renounced their religions, Hitler never did.

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Originally Posted by Turk

Materialism and Capitalism are completely related. Like two brothers.

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Why do you think that? Give some evidence. Adam Smith was hardly a materialist, but Karl Marx sure was.

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Originally Posted by Turk

And yeah about Scandinavian countries. Sweden is not Socialist but Swedish state is a social state

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Yes, Sweden has a democratic socialist government, one of the most left-wing in the world (before the last election, anyway). It runs mostly on private ownership, but there is a strong policy towards correcting social inequality. And many are atheists.

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Originally Posted by Naightshade

And I bet this makes absaloutly no sense to anyone but me...miss T maybe you can explain it better what Im trying to get into is the 'zeinat hayat el dunyah' and 'the sukhar lukm' ayahs

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Opps! Sorry I did n't see this earlier: ,I'll be very very glad to help,the thing is: I did n't get what you want not I understand what you're reffering to by stating these ayyas will you please enlighten me more about thses two points in PM? Thanks for the confidence,night .

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

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Originally Posted by “Virgil”
All that for nothing? What? Do you realize how you got people's passions up?

I guess we’ve made this thread what we want it to be, regardless of the opening poster’s intent. That, however, is the risk when participating in a thread whose purpose isn’t clearly communicated, I guess. I like the turn this thread has taken anyway.

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:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:

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Originally Posted by Turk

Your answers make me think you doesn't have enough knowledge about religion and history. And raising as Catholic doesn't mean understanding religion even Catholicism, everyone borns in a society and everyone raised in a culture, but raising in a Catholic or Muslim or Buddhist society doesn't mean you know/understand essence of those religions. And i don't have knowledge about specialities of your history class and it's level since everyone get education almost everyone has history classes in their education life and yeah i didn't say you don't know anything, i'm sure you know a few things i just said you don't know enough.

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I hate to open or interfere in such useless arguments but Turk you can't judge people and understamates their standard of knowledge! I mean come on!

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Originally Posted by Turk

Virgil; i'm not sure about Christianity, because i didn't research about this question in Christianity, but in İslam human is supreme than angels, because according to İslam God give us ability to choose, free will.

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Are all human above angels or just those who have great great faith and when they sin they ask forgiveness..I'll check on this point more inshallah.

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Originally Posted by Turk

Satan rejected this because of his arrogance (though some İslamic scholars have different thoughts about Satan's manner, according to them Satan was so faithful and that's why didn't want to pray prostrate to man, and that was a "blind" faith, that make him forget obeying orders of God is true faith. An interesting claim. Although this kind of faith also includes arrogance, i think those scholars misses this weak part of their argument).

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If Satan is that much faithful ,then how he disobey his Creator??if he is faithful ,as some scholars think, then he would've obeyed his God without arguing! Do those Thinkers know that he was fired from Heaven because of his disobedience.
Basically, he did not obey coz of his arrogance, it’s stated in the holy Quran, so this subject is decided to me. Allah,swt, knows best.

We're getting hot in here,aren't we?:D ….

Hitler was catholic ? I thought he was jewish, ahh well we live and learn anyway onwards and upwards as they say.

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

I’m confused here, please help explicate for me. How can humans be the ‘master race’ and yet not be ‘superior’? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the definitions.

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Ill admit my explaining could be clearer but the thing is I get it but not sur ei can explain it.
ok here it goes, as a muslim I belive God created everything and when he created adam, he said to the angels that he was cretaing a khalifa- foller/inheritor ruler in stead of , you know the royalty theory where in the kings were appoited by God? well basically that idea but all the human race is. And basically as you would the angels objected on the grounds that wellthis new creature would destroy the beautiful earth and that they worshipped god coonstatly. Anyway so Man was given the earth and everything on it serves 'the human exsistance' in a bid to help us in this life that is a test and to show us the glory of God etc etc. Hence the master race.
But not the supirior race because although we ( and the Jin) have the one thing no other creation has ( the will to choose the worship of god) everything in the heavens and earth living and otherwise 'sabahs' (errr prays/worships/? somthing like that) so how could we be suprior? Its like comparing apples and oranges canyt be done were all special but differant.

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Originally Posted by Turk

. Satan rejected this because of his arrogance (though some İslamic scholars have different thoughts about Satan's manner, according to them Satan was so faithful and that's why didn't want to pray prostrate to man, and that was a "blind" faith, that make him forget obeying orders of God is true faith. An interesting claim. Although this kind of faith also includes arrogance, i think those scholars misses this weak part of their argument).
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Now thats one I havent heard, but what do they say about 'aba wastkbar wa kana min el kafireen?' pretty clear that I think.


:nod:

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Originally Posted by miss tenderness

Opps! Sorry I did n't see this earlier: ,I'll be very very glad to help,the thing is: I did n't get what you want not I understand what you're reffering to by stating these ayyas will you please enlighten me more about thses two points in PM? Thanks for the confidence,night .

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thanks anyway Id forgotten Id posted that and had another stab at it in the post just below yours ( simultanious posting *sigh*

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:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:

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ditto

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I hate to open or interfere in such useless arguments but Turk you can't judge people and understamates their standard of knowledge! I mean come on!

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ditto

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If Satan is that much faithful ,then how he disobey his Creator??if he is faithful ,as some scholars think, then he would've obeyed his God without arguing! Do those Thinkers know that he was fired from Heaven because of his disobedience.
Basically, he did not obey coz of his arrogance, it’s stated in the holy Quran, so this subject is decided to me. Allah,swt, knows best.

We're getting hot in here,aren't we?:D ….

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and errr ditto:D:D

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Are all human above angels or just those who have great great faith and when they sin they ask forgiveness..I'll check on this point more inshallah.

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yes esp. as the gift at the end is seeing God and the angels do that all the time plus the angels are like 3rd ( or is it even second?) on the list of things you have to be a Beliver ranking above prophets, books and fate good and evil.

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Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

Hi Pensive! :banana:

What definition of 'special' are you using?

p.s. I agree, you're special. :D

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Hey!

By special, I mean "Of a distinct or particular kind or character."

Yes, I am special and so are you and every other person/amimal/bird/insect and even things. :p (My Computer is special.:D)

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Originally Posted by Pensive

Hey!

By special, I mean "Of a distinct or particular kind or character."

Yes, I am special and so are you and every other person/amimal/bird/insect and even things. :p (My Computer is special.:D)

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Well, if everything is special, Pensy, then nothing is special.

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Marx and Neitzche renounced their religions, Hitler never did.

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Does he need to do that? It's clear that he wasn't a Catholic.

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Why do you think that? Give some evidence. Adam Smith was hardly a materialist, but Karl Marx sure was.

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I don't want to explain this, because if we start this, this thread won't end.

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Yes, Sweden has a democratic socialist government, one of the most left-wing in the world (before the last election, anyway). It runs mostly on private ownership, but there is a strong policy towards correcting social inequality. And many are atheists.

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Having Democratic Socialist government doesn't mean Sweden is constitutionaly Socialist. You already said "Socialist" at first, but Socialism is far different than Democratic Socialism. To me, it's just fits conservative bourgeouis socialism. Before everything if there's no proleterian dictatorship there's no "socialism". But as i said Sweden is maybe the most social state of the world. But that doesn't mean they'r socialist. Their economical system is completely Capitalist and they have a lot of global companies. With this kind of companies and 7-8 millions no growing population, all countries could be social as Sweden. Btw i would also like to said Scandinavian countries are very different than other parts of Europe and i think they never become true Christians. Today they have no moral and their lifestyle sucks and those countries also have highest suicide rates of Europe. I know a lil more (i've a friend who studies there) but subject is not Sweden. Shortly Sweden is not a good example for ideal state and society.

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Are all human above angels or just those who have great great faith and when they sin they ask forgiveness..I'll check on this point more inshallah.

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In creation, in beginning, human is supreme than angels. Research as much as you can do.

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If Satan is that much faithful ,then how he disobey his Creator??if he is faithful ,as some scholars think, then he would've obeyed his God without arguing! Do those Thinkers know that he was fired from Heaven because of his disobedience.

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I don't say it's my idea and i disagree this. But some thinkers have this idea (if i remember accurately Muhyiddin İbn-i Arabi is one of them too). But obviously those thinkers were more educated about İslam than us. There can be many different comments, but all in they all defended unity (Tevhid).

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Hitler was catholic ? I thought he was jewish, ahh well we live and learn anyway onwards and upwards as they say.

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Hitler's mother worked as servant for a Jewish family in Vien. That's why some people claims Hitler was a Jewish, in fact this Jewish family keep sending money to Hitler's mom when she return to her village too. But that doesn't mean Hitler was a Jewish. His father is Alois Hitler, a German (but probly they had a little Czech blood in their veins) and Hitler doesn't have racial specialities of Jews too. This will be off topic, so i don't want to tell more about it but i want to say that Hitler was the probly one of most charismatic 2-3 leaders of 20. century and he was a true genius, if he had grown up in a better society, family, time etc. he could be a much different.

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Originally Posted by Turk

In creation, in beginning, human is supreme than angels. Research as much as you can do.

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I will absouletly do. This point caught me interest ;)


I don't say it's my idea and i disagree this. But some thinkers have this idea (if i remember accurately Muhyiddin İbn-i Arabi is one of them too). But obviously those thinkers were more educated about İslam than us. There can be many different comments, but all in they all defended unity (Tevhid).

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No need to be angery ,Turk. I've n't said that it's u who come up with this unacceptable idea,have I? I was just defending my belief. It' nt u whom I disagreed with. I disagreed with those thinkers.I know u mainly transfered their theories.Please read carefully my posts, it really upsets me when someone misunderstand my intentions:bawling:

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Originally Posted by Turk

Does he need to do that? It's clear that he wasn't a Catholic.

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Not to hear him speak it isn't. He frequently refenced God and how the aryans are the race chosen to carry out God's work (an idea that is not original with him, by the way). Bottom line, if he was a materialist, he sure didn't act like it.

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Originally Posted by Turk

I don't want to explain this, because if we start this, this thread won't end.

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Are you in some kind of hurry? As a materialist who is also a rabid anti-capitalist, I would love to hear this.

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Originally Posted by Turk

Having Democratic Socialist government doesn't mean Sweden is constitutionaly Socialist. You already said "Socialist" at first, but Socialism is far different than Democratic Socialism.

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Socialism is different than a certain kind of socialism?

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Originally Posted by Turk

Before everything if there's no proleterian dictatorship there's no "socialism".

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Marx isn't the first and last word on socialism, friend, he was just a very influential socialist. From my dictionary:

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The term 'socialism' has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state communism, and social democracy

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I can't see how you can continue to defend your position that there is no socialism in Sweden when you keep using the terms "socialism" "social" and "socialist" to describe it.

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Originally Posted by Turk

Today they have no moral and their lifestyle sucks

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Ok, now all materialists and Swedes hate you. Any other masses you'd like to offend, or are you done?

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Originally Posted by Turk

Shortly Sweden is not a good example for ideal state and society.

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Who said it is? I'm simply refuting your suggestion that atheism and capitalism are somehow tied in with each other.

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Originally Posted by Turk

I want to say that Hitler was the probly one of most charismatic 2-3 leaders of 20. century and he was a true genius, if he had grown up in a better society, family, time etc. he could be a much different.

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He would have made a brilliant actor.

I'm not angry at you Miss Tenderness. I just clarified that it's not my thought.

And Cuppajoe, you really started to make just demogogy. If i say something i don't say it just sake of saying. I know Hitler references God many times, i've read his book Mein Kampf, but he's clearly much far than Catholicism or any religion. And yeah Socialism is different than a certain kind of Socialism and i've never read any Socialist who claims it's possible that Capitalism and Socialism can work together, even if you don't accept ideas of Karl Marks Sweden is still not Socialist. In fact Sweden has purely Capitalist economy. Democratic Socialists and leftists are very strong in almost all countries of Europe. Isn't Tony Blair leader of Worker Party? You mixing social state and Socialism to each other. At last i would like to say; if anyone hates me it's not my problem, i don't hate anyone since my life is too short to hate someone.

The topic of this thread is 'Are humans special or are we nothing more the mere rabbits?' Please start new threads on other topics you would like to discuss.

Further off topic / personal posts are likely to be deleted.

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Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

As a materialist who is also a rabid anti-capitalist, I would love to hear this.

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(I'm new kid on the block, mind if I jump in? I've followed this thread with interest)
could you define "materialist" for me? in the sense that you consider yourself to be one? How does it relate to being anti-capitalist as well?

Did anyone mention the similarity of DNA between a CHimp and a human? I beleive it to be about 98%

So much for a massive difference...

not to mention, humans have the same amount of hair as a chimp... frightening thought really