Twilight

But apples and oranges are comparable...oh dear ^^ Yes, I'm being deliberately awkward. Anyway, someone was comparing War and Peace to Twilight and that is from where my comment stemmed (:

Actually, what you read does greatly influence how you write. I will present myself as a clear example; I'm Dutch and my family and I moved to England at the time that you'd usually be developing reading/ writing skills. I was never taught to read or write French, as I was learning to speak, read, and write English, but taught myself to when my mother started making me read French books. I have derived more grammar and language from those books than from any French lessons which clearly set out grammar rules and vocabulary. Although I'm sure you didn't really need or want to know that, it is quite well known that if you read voraciously, your grammar will be alike that of the material you read and that your general understanding of language will be different according to the style that you like best.

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Originally Posted by Allannah

Actually, what you read does greatly influence how you write. I will present myself as a clear example; I'm Dutch and my family and I moved to England at the time that you'd usually be developing reading/ writing skills. I was never taught to read or write French, as I was learning to speak, read, and write English, but taught myself to when my mother started making me read French books. I have derived more grammar and language from those books than from any French lessons which clearly set out grammar rules and vocabulary. Although I'm sure you didn't really need or want to know that, it is quite well known that if you read voraciously, your grammar will be alike that of the material you read and that your general understanding of language will be different according to the style that you like best.

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you do have a valid point, but it may not have the same effect if its many different types of styles you read. I'm sure if someone only read trashy books and say young adult books, they would write in a similar style and might not use a broad vocab, and someone who mainly read classics might be influenced by them. but for someone who reads a bit of everything, it may not have as much of an effect. but who knows. I'm no expert, i'm only speculating.

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Originally Posted by Allannah

I doubt that you could truly enjoy both Tolstoy and Stephene Meyer. They are of such different levels and you cannot appreciate both equally.

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Are you saying that if I have the mental capacity to enjoy Stephanie Meyer, I do not have the capacity to enjoy Tolstoy? Please clarify; I find that a little offensive...

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Originally Posted by Allannah

But apples and oranges are comparable...oh dear ^^ Yes, I'm being deliberately awkward. Anyway, someone was comparing War and Peace to Twilight and that is from where my comment stemmed (:

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Actually, the comparison was between Anna Karenina and Twilight, when I was told that if I'm going to read a work such as Tolstoy's I should be reading more appropriate fluff.

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Originally Posted by Allannah

Although I'm sure you didn't really need or want to know that, it is quite well known that if you read voraciously, your grammar will be alike that of the material you read and that your general understanding of language will be different according to the style that you like best.

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The difference here is that you have deliberately applied yourself to the improvement of both your written and spoken language, and obviously you take great care when expressing yourself. Not everyone applies him or herself in the same way. Of course, there's the other option- those who speak in their first language and are simply careless, especially while typing. I know that I speak and write far more correctly than I type.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

I am not suggesting that anyone spend all of their time reading heavyweight novels such as Anna Karenina; there is plenty of lighter fiction to choose from as an alternative and, of course, it's entirely up to you what you choose to read. But teenage vampires! You're kidding me right?

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I've read plenty of light fiction as well as the classic literature with which I'm trying to educate myself, but that still has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that I chose to read about teenage vampires. That happened to be what I felt like reading at the time. I have openly admitted that Twilight is not of the same writing quality of other fiction, whether contemporary or classic, original language or translation. It is simply a story in which to immerse oneself, and whether or not others find that credible does not matter in the least. I really don't understand why you would suggest that the fluff I choose to read isn't appropriate..? What would you consider appropriate fluff?

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Originally Posted by Allannah

But apples and oranges are comparable...oh dear ^^ Yes, I'm being deliberately awkward. Anyway, someone was comparing War and Peace to Twilight and that is from where my comment stemmed (:

Actually, what you read does greatly influence how you write. I will present myself as a clear example; I'm Dutch and my family and I moved to England at the time that you'd usually be developing reading/ writing skills. I was never taught to read or write French, as I was learning to speak, read, and write English, but taught myself to when my mother started making me read French books. I have derived more grammar and language from those books than from any French lessons which clearly set out grammar rules and vocabulary. Although I'm sure you didn't really need or want to know that, it is quite well known that if you read voraciously, your grammar will be alike that of the material you read and that your general understanding of language will be different according to the style that you like best.

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Well i've read a whole lot of books in my life time - you pick up different things. Of course the way I speak and my choice of words has changed, but I still use one two many commas.
It doesn't alter the fact I've probably read more books than you - even if you have better grammar than I do.

To be honest, I was quite offended too..

Allannah, maybe you should be a little more careful with what you say. I don't know you and you certainly don't know me.

I am lazy with the way i write. Period. It doesn't mean I cant express myself in the "correct way"

I seem to have made a rather bad introduction to the forum xD

Once again, limajean, I apologise to you- although, I must say, I find your acceptance [or unacceptance] of it somewhat ungracious. I have acknowledged that my criticism of your post was unnecessary, but you seem intent on mantaining your unpleasant view of me ^^

How do you know, with such certainty, that you have read so many more books than I? I admit that I was being modest perhaps until the point of untruthfulness when I more or less said that I hadn't read that many books- I actually have read quite a lot, especially in proportion to my age.

Classic Charm- I don't know why you're talking about mental capacity; I never referred to it whether directly or indirectly. I would appreciate it if you at least tried to interpret what I said correctly! =] I would certainly not say that. My friend Hannah loves the Twilight series, and yet has an IQ of about a billion ^^ You have doubtless not read my former post on the previous page in which I explained why exactly I felt that you could not enjoy both authors both to the same degree.

Actually, since I was about eight or nine when I started reading books in French, I doubt that I really had the capacity to conciously "apply" myself- which is why I used myself as an example to support my point.

To anyone else that I've inadvertently offended: I'M SORRY! x]

I don't know if you've read more than me - i was being snarky and mean because I was annoyed at your comment on grammar. I also have the terrible habit of arguing, it's almost addictive.

I guess we're even,

you dont need to apologise for anything.

Lol, I'm the most argumentative person I know, and that's saying something x]

Who's your favourite character out of Twilight? I think mine's Jacob...purely 'cos he's abit fit...but I like Alice too. I liked the bit in the film where they're in the restaurant and Edward tells Bella that he can read minds. It's like "Money. Sex. Sex. Money. Cat" xD

i don't like Twilight, so none of them really :\

The movie I really enjoyed though

Yeah....my friends are making me read Breaking Dawn but I really preferred the film! It would be interesting to read Twilight from Edward's perspective, though; wasn't she going to publish something like that. Ah well. Coincidentally I just discovered that my morbidly obese hamster has eaten his way through page one of New Moon. How appropriate ^^ Lol.

It's already been published, on her website.
Play around with the links and you'll find it.

Okay, thanks (:

its called midnight sun Allannah. It only goes up as far as before the meadow scene. But there is talk that she is going to publish it now because of petitions etc. Its interesting.

I loved that bit in the movie as well, and the guy thinking of his cat kind of lovingly sighs. had me in stitches.

I find it amusing that Twilight seems to think it is being all burning desire/forbidden love, when they basically have a conventional boring relationship, minus the vampies butting in occasionally.

Summit pictures have announced that New Moon will more than likley have release date of the 20th November 2009!!! They hope to film New Moon and Eclipes back to back so it will not be much of a wait for it either.

The obsession continues.

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Originally Posted by kelby_lake

I find it amusing that Twilight seems to think it is being all burning desire/forbidden love, when they basically have a conventional boring relationship, minus the vampies butting in occasionally.

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Convetional, violent, boring, vampire-baby-momma-killing, relationship.

Interestingly enough, a rumor went around school today that a certain male of the most impressionable nature had read one of the Twilight books. He was ridiculed all day for it..

Don't pity him, please. He can be a real jerk sometimes (unless you're an attractive female---then he'll drool all over you and stoop down to kiss your feet....I digress :lol:).

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Originally Posted by aBIGsheep

Convetional, violent, boring, vampire-baby-momma-killing, relationship.

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Pretty normal than:lol:

Twilight is a wonderful story to read, i myself enjoyed readin it alot.
And Edward is great.. i loved his character alot.

The movie has been released , and i guess the book is way better though everything has be put in to real .. yet they can't mention all the story .

Anyway,I feel this book is good.

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Twilight is a wonderful story to read, i(I) myself enjoyed readin(g) it alot. (a lot)
And Edward is great.. i(I) loved his character alot. ( a lot)

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However, your grammar certainly doesn't speak well for the type of people who read the book.

I know that isn't fair and doesn't encompass everybody, and I'm sorry, but I can never resist a dig at bad grammar.

I love this novel,It's so wonderful.And I think,For anything else, different people have different ideas, we certainly can not view the same.:yawnb:

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Originally Posted by BeccaT

However, your grammar certainly doesn't speak well for the type of people who read the book.

I know that isn't fair and doesn't encompass everybody, and I'm sorry, but I can never resist a dig at bad grammar.

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Lol don't, it's dangerous to correct grammar here ^^

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Originally Posted by Joreads

Pretty normal than:lol:

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That's all just thrown in to make it seem 'exciting'. And the whole keeping the baby even though it's killing you is just propaganda.

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Originally Posted by kelby_lake

That's all just thrown in to make it seem 'exciting'. And the whole keeping the baby even though it's killing you is just propaganda.

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I'm with you on that - can I get an OK from a moderator though, before we head down this road? I know you guys don't like us talking about controversial subjects, but I think this one is central to the text.

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Originally Posted by JBI

I'm with you on that - can I get an OK from a moderator though, before we head down this road? I know you guys don't like us talking about controversial subjects, but I think this one is central to the text.

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So does that mean you have read it now? I am not quite sure how you would know what was central to the plot otherwise?

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Originally Posted by joreads

so does that mean you have read it now? I am not quite sure how you would know what was central to the plot otherwise?

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hahahahaha

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Originally Posted by Allannah

Classic Charm- I don't know why you're talking about mental capacity; I never referred to it whether directly or indirectly. I would appreciate it if you at least tried to interpret what I said correctly! =] I would certainly not say that. My friend Hannah loves the Twilight series, and yet has an IQ of about a billion ^^ You have doubtless not read my former post on the previous page in which I explained why exactly I felt that you could not enjoy both authors both to the same degree.

Actually, since I was about eight or nine when I started reading books in French, I doubt that I really had the capacity to conciously "apply" myself- which is why I used myself as an example to support my point.

To anyone else that I've inadvertently offended: I'M SORRY! x]

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Try to interpret correctly?? I wouldn't try to interpret anything any other way...:confused: I'm not looking to be insulted, Allannah. If that's not what you meant, my apologies for jumping on you:) As for my comment on mental capacity, I don't quite understand what other type of capacity one uses when reading...I had read your post explaining your view, but it still lead me to believe that a connection to work like Twilight meant that one could not have a thorough understanding of more (for lack of a better term) accomplished work. Really, it was your use of the phrase "because it's so evidently lacking" in reference to Twilight. It simply made me think that if a reader does not "realize" that Twilight is lacking, he or she would not be able to appreciate a classic, more distinguished work. Hopefully that explains my thought process to you. :)

Thank you for your apology, and my own to you for misinterpretation.

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Originally Posted by Joreads

So does that mean you have read it now? I am not quite sure how you would know what was central to the plot otherwise?

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I read what you guys put - I merely wanted an OK from a mod in order to begin looking at that, as abortion, and other topics relate to it are generally hot-button issues.

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Originally Posted by JBI

I read what you guys put - I merely wanted an OK from a mod in order to begin looking at that, as abortion, and other topics relate to it are generally hot-button issues.

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I still don't see how you can argue one way or the other by piggy backing our thoughts on the novel. Don't get me wrong if people have read the book, or at least given it a good go and didn't like it I am fine with that and more than happy to talk about it. But to simply read what a few people think and than deciding what side of the fence you are on from that doesn't seem to have a lot of merit to me. Does that make sense to you?


PS as far as I am concerned the central theme is the love story between Edward and Bella not the baby or the choice that was made in regards to it

Agreeing with Jo on this...as I'm sure you can guess, JBI:D

Unless you have read the book, you can't understand the circumstances behind the pregnancy with respect to the characters and yes, the fact that they're vampires does matter to the discussion of unwanted pregnancy, abortion, etc.

To have heard that the girl gets pregnant by a vampire and the baby is supposed to claw its way out of her is not a good enough background.

I will, of course, also await the go ahead by a moderator before I say anything more.:)

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Originally Posted by Joreads

I still don't see how you can argue one way or the other by piggy backing our thoughts on the novel. Don't get me wrong if people have read the book, or at least given it a good go and didn't like it I am fine with that and more than happy to talk about it. But to simply read what a few people think and than deciding what side of the fence you are on from that doesn't seem to have a lot of merit to me. Does that make sense to you?


PS as far as I am concerned the central theme is the love story between Edward and Bella not the baby or the choice that was made in regards to it

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I gave it three pages, more than it deserved. Just because its popular poorly written cliché doesn't mean I should be forced to read it before commenting.

It's like saying I must read every bad book before being able to say they are bad. As a student of contemporary literature, that puts me in a problem spot - how the hell can one read good books, if they are forced to finish every bad book before they are "allowed to comment". The point is, I saw the thread heading in a direction, and I wanted to approach it from perspective points, but am awaiting a go ahead, as it is rather pushing against some of the forum rules, mainly the no discussing current events, which could or could not include said subjects.

But yeah, I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on said subjects right? I'm not a Twilight authority, so I can't comment on politics.



On another note, how the **** am I supposed to comment on the fourth book of a mediocre series, without reading the whole thing. By that notion, every review of that book is naturally biased, given that the readers had first wanted to continue after the first one, therefore rendering the reading relative to other volumes in the series, rather than to literature in general.

But yeah, sit back and enjoy your thread, because I'm not allowed to comment, right? I haven't read the whole book, so I clearly no nothing about the American tradition, or American politics in novels.

dis book sucks i canrt beleive any 1 likes it. whats wrong wit the world today that peple can call this dog crap good

After reading most of the posts, I think only one thing can be said:

One man's junk is another man's treasure.

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Originally Posted by JBI

I gave it three pages, more than it deserved. Just because its popular poorly written cliché doesn't mean I should be forced to read it before commenting.

It's like saying I must read every bad book before being able to say they are bad. As a student of contemporary literature, that puts me in a problem spot - how the hell can one read good books, if they are forced to finish every bad book before they are "allowed to comment". The point is, I saw the thread heading in a direction, and I wanted to approach it from perspective points, but am awaiting a go ahead, as it is rather pushing against some of the forum rules, mainly the no discussing current events, which could or could not include said subjects.

But yeah, I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on said subjects right? I'm not a Twilight authority, so I can't comment on politics.



On another note, how the **** am I supposed to comment on the fourth book of a mediocre series, without reading the whole thing. By that notion, every review of that book is naturally biased, given that the readers had first wanted to continue after the first one, therefore rendering the reading relative to other volumes in the series, rather than to literature in general.

But yeah, sit back and enjoy your thread, because I'm not allowed to comment, right? I haven't read the whole book, so I clearly no nothing about the American tradition, or American politics in novels.

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JBI what are we going to do with you. There was no intention to stop you commenting in this or any other thread. So lets talk.

We will have agree to disagree about the three pages being enough to judge a book. I think that is a little stiff but I will grant that you may know your stuff and your mind better than I know mine.

As a student of contemporary literature you are going to come across bad books I am sure, looks like you have already found four;) I have no idea how to deal that so I am of no help to you there, but if you could answer me one question how do you know what's a good book if you don't read any bad ones?

As for the direction of the thread you are right we need to wait for the go ahead but as I said ealier I think this is a small part of the book but you and Kelbl Lake are right (see I have been thinking about it) it could do with some discussion. If we get the go ahead I hope you allow us the chance to explain to you the circumstances surrounding the event to put it into context, at least as we (Charm and Myself) see it - I am not sure we are on the same page with regards to that. So if we are allowed we will pick up the gloves then.

No one said you had to be a Twilight authority in fact I am not sure I am either - but if you wanted to ask me about Edward than we are good to go :blush:

I'll give you this you add a little spice to a thread so if you would do me one small favour and stick around I would really appreciate it. A little spice does the soul good every now and again doesn't it.

So to keep the thread moving alone I still think that the book is a love story at its core. Does anyone else have any other thoughts on that? JBI what do you think?

Jo, you are so much more diplomatic than I!

And I agree with you completely. I'm sorry JBI, I get ahead of myself sometimes. I'd love to go ahead with this discussion if we get a mod on board, and I promise I'll try to be fair and keep my temper:)

Yep - at the heart, it's a life style.

I don't know about everyone else but i love fluffy books. I read them because I don't want to read heavy or thought provoking books all the time. Same reason i watch fluffy movies and fluffy tv.

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Originally Posted by limajean

Yep - at the heart, it's a life style.

I don't know about everyone else but i love fluffy books. I read them because I don't want to read heavy or thought provoking books all the time. Same reason i watch fluffy movies and fluffy tv.

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Haha LJ, I love that you're trying to keep this thread from getting into an argument. A valiant effort!

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

Jo, you are so much more diplomatic than I!

And I agree with you completely. I'm sorry JBI, I get ahead of myself sometimes. I'd love to go ahead with this discussion if we get a mod on board, and I promise I'll try to be fair and keep my temper:)

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Years of practice Charm years of practice.

Oh my lord there is something wrong with me.

LIFE STYLE?

I meant love story.

Oh my god i'm deranged.

And thanks Charm :)

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Originally Posted by limajean

Oh my lord there is something wrong with me.

LIFE STYLE?

I meant love story.

Oh my god i'm deranged.

And thanks Charm :)

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Well I didn't even pick that up myself I read Love Story. I seriously need some help :p

Funny...I did read Life Style and still didn't notice at all that it made no sense...perhaps some sleep is in order!