Racism

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Originally Posted by Drkshadow03

No, he was just noting that Lynne's was the most honest and sensible post in this thread, including his own naturally, which were clearly far less honest and sensible according to his own words. Not to mention the post is clearly sensible because Lynne on the one hand states, "we are all, deep down, racists" while simultaneously claiming that he doesn't "consider [him]self the least bit racist, though." See, perfect sense! Not the least bit contradictory at all. Nothing to see here . . .

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Thank you Drkshadow for calling me on that so obvious contradiction I made. I hope that one little statement " I don't consider myself a racist" doesn't totally negate what I was trying to say. The word 'racist' has ugly connotations, I guess it should be included in the Ugly Word thread. I guess I was trying to use the word in the purest sense, if that's possible, to mean, that whatever your ethnic background, you hold that in the highest regard, which is only natural. Acting on a feeling of superiority, however, is where we get into trouble. Maybe the word
I guess what I was trying to get at, is that I think that we want everyone in the world to assimilate as fast as possible, which would make some things much easier for us, but what a boring world that would be.
I hope this clarifies my ideas a little better. Thanks for your imput. DrkShadow.

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Originally Posted by Drkshadow03

Of course. Why do you ask?

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The link was to the song "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist."

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Originally Posted by wessexgirl

Are you going out of your way to be offensive? Are you suggesting that people who don't see things the way you do are liars? I can assure you, I'm no liar. I don't post on forums to lie. I say what I truly believe, and it seems that because it's not what you want to hear, then I'm assumed to be dishonest.

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No, what I am saying is that those who keep trying to iron out racial differences in the belief that they are doing good, are making the situation worse and deceiving themselves rather than other people.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

No, what I am saying is that those who keep trying to iron out racial differences in the belief that they are doing good, are making the situation worse and deceiving themselves rather than other people.

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No one wants to iron out racial differences. They simply want to encourage acceptance of the differences.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

No one wants to iron out racial differences. They simply want to encourage acceptance of the differences.

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Why? People should be able to decide for themselves whether to accept those differences or not.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

Why? People should be able to decide for themselves whether to accept those differences or not.

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Of course they should. I didn't say 'enforce'; I said 'encourage'.

If you can trot out the evidence of your own eyes as an argument, with the caveat that people are free to disagree with you, then presumably you'd concede that anyone can encourage any behaviour they feel is a good idea, with the same proviso that others may choose to decide for themselves.

Deciding for oneself is never a bad idea. But that's not an argument against others presenting possible choices for that decision. In fact it's an argument for the presentation of those choices.

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

The link was to the song "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist."

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I saw what the song was, and I agree to an extent everyone is a little racist, but I'm not seeing what point you're trying to make . . .

Hey Brian.... Have you ever been the butt of a racist remark, or had someone you respected make a comment about someone who not the full shilling in your presense and say that they "must be <insert race/ nationality> so"? I have and the first time it happened, i can tell you it hurt. And why is that? because they didnt think and said something they must obviously believe regardless of me.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Deciding for oneself is never a bad idea. But that's not an argument against others presenting possible choices for that decision. In fact it's an argument for the presentation of those choices.

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Why the need to proselytize? Encouraging people to think along lines of one's own choosing is presumptuous.

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Originally Posted by Niamh

Hey Brian.... Have you ever been the butt of a racist remark, or had someone you respected make a comment about someone who not the full shilling in your presense and say that they "must be <insert race/ nationality> so"? I.

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As a matter of fact I have. There was a man working in the same office as myself and, because he knew that I had a Chinese girl friend, took it upon himself to make a 'racist' joke, in my presence, about the chinese.
Did I hold it against him? No, because although he was in many ways an ignorant person, he has every right to his opinion and it is not my business to try to persuade him to be otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

Why the need to proselytize? Encouraging people to think along lines of one's own choosing is presumptuous.

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When you put it like that, I see you're right. There's no point in conversation at all. I look forward to you setting an example by keeping your opinions to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

Why the need to proselytize? Encouraging people to think along lines of one's own choosing is presumptuous.

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Why the need to write or debate about anything? Or share any ideas, forget ones just involving racism?

Does this make all philosophy and literature or political thought essentially presumptuous? People don't write first and foremost to create pretty aesthetic objects; they write to share ideas.

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As a matter of fact I have. There was a man working in the same office as myself and, because he knew that I had a Chinese girl friend, took it upon himself to make a 'racist' joke, in my presence, about the chinese.
Did I hold it against him? No, because although he was in many ways an ignorant person, he has every right to his opinion and it is not my business to try to persuade him to be otherwise.

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He has every right to his opinion, and every right to express his opinion, but you also have every right to respond and call him a racist idiot.

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Originally Posted by Drkshadow03

Why the need to write or debate about anything? Or share any ideas, forget ones just involving racism?

Does this make all philosophy and literature or political thought essentially presumptuous? People don't write first and foremost to create pretty aesthetic objects; they write to share ideas.


He has every right to his opinion, and every right to express his opinion, but you also have every right to respond and call him a racist idiot.

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There is a marked difference between debate and propaganda

I would never resort to personal invective because someone holds views contrary to my own. It's usually a sign of a flawed point of view.

Brian

Not calling that coworker on his offensive remarks, you're, in essence, agreeing with him and he will continue to think that those comments are acceptable. I can't imagine your girlfriend liking the fact that you didn't stand up for her.[/B][/B]

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Originally Posted by Lynne50

Brian

Not calling that coworker on his offensive remarks, you're, in essence, agreeing with him and he will continue to think that those comments are acceptable. I can't imagine your girlfriend liking the fact that you didn't stand up for her.[/B][/B]

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Well it was a joke for heaven's sake and quite a funny one at that.
I never mentioned it to my girl friend who wouldn't have understood it anyway. In any case the chinese can be quite 'racist' themselves on occasion. When president Nixon made his historic trip to China in 1972, the Chinese Foreign Minister Chou En-Lai told him that China would eventually surpass the USA because China didn't have 20 million blacks to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

I would never resort to personal invective because someone holds views contrary to my own. It's usually a sign of a flawed point of view.

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Actually, when it's not down to contrary views, but down to the other person being an idiot, I think there's nothing in the least flawed in pointing out to such a person that he's an idiot.