Are humans special or are we nothing more the mere rabbits

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

Mawlana Jalal-Ad Din Rumi is a great Sufi philosopher. His book Mesnevi is the greatest book i've ever read and he's the wisest poet/philosopher, almost every sentence of his books is full of wisery. I'll add a link for you, about his works and biography;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_ad-Din_Muhammad_Rumi

You can find links to his works at the bottom of that article, but if you going to read him i advice you to be careful and thoughtful. Because if you don't read careful it may just seem like some fables and eastern stories to you.

http://www.mevlana.ws/ Here's one more...

---

Thanks Turk. I found the wikipedia site very interesting.

You'r welcome.

I guessesd that Jalal Aldeen was a Sufi leader ,that's why I asked you:one to read about him more and second to make sure about my guessing. I do not agree with the sufi ways . I've nt read what's in the links but I promise I'll do(carefully as u recommended),and feed you back ,Turk.,thanks alot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hitchhiker

If you believe in a higher being then you must also believe that each individual here is nothing more then a rabbit or even an ant when compared to his inteligence and his just over whelming greatness. So there for no matter what all we have created individually we are little more then nothing compared to him (or she or it or what ever it may be budda, god, satan, ahlai, what ever it doesn't really matter) we are but one ant in his ant farm.

---

Wait,wait..
What's up boy!we're but mere animals compared to God!!!I'm an animal compared to God. Your words failed you here. If you want to say that"hey people,God is the greatest and the most Omnipotent and we're not but mere one kind of His grand creations" then I totally join you. But saying that we are animals compared to Him is such a ……..dunno what to say.(plz feed me back about this point lest I misunderstood you,thanks). For me, Yes I believe in my God(Allah ,the most Gracious the most Merciful) . I believe He creates all what my eyes meet. I fear Him and obey His orders. I sense His greatness wherever I go,but I'm not an ANIMAL. In fact, Allah,swt, tells us in the Holy Quran that you son of Adam are amongst my vast creation but I've honor you with specialities that are not given to any of my creation. Allah,swt,ennobles me as a human,thus , He sends the messengers and sends down the messages to people(note that they are not for animals or plants but for you son of Adam(humans)because you are given abilities that are not given to any of His other creation. I'm not a rabbit compared to God. I'm one of God's great creation and I'm so proud that he honored me and made me human and asked me to glorify Him .
hope my point was clear...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

I am not dismissing your arguments just because your age, i dismiss your arguments becasue i don't think they are sensible to me. Without knowing essence and arguments of true religion, without knowing relation between historical events and philosophy at the background of historical events you can still make comments, and those comments can be logical, becasue everyone has a brain and everyone can think, but thinking without knowledge is like swimming in a fish pool.

---

What makes you think I'm uneducated in those fields? I was raised Catholic and am a student of history in college, I think I know at least a few things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

At the end i would like to say i made comment about your age but it's not becasue something about you, it's because me, personally i don't like to argue with so young or very old people because of some reasons. Although i didn't say you shouldn't make comments, i just said you should be a little calm and controlled.

---

If you don't want to argue with me then don't. I think I'm being fairly calm, considering that in the course of this conversation I've been called a jackass, a nazi, an amoral hypocrite, uneducated and too young to possibly have a valid argument. To be perfectly frank, I could do without that kind of 'argument'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miss tenderness

Wait,wait..
What's up boy!we're but mere animals compared to God!!!I'm an animal compared to God. Your words failed you here. If you want to say that"hey people,God is the greatest and the most Omnipotent and we're not but mere one kind of His grand creations" then I totally join you. But saying that we are animals compared to Him is such a ……..dunno what to say.(plz feed me back about this point lest I misunderstood you,thanks). For me, Yes I believe in my God(Allah ,the most Gracious the most Merciful) . I believe He creates all what my eyes meet. I fear Him and obey His orders. I sense His greatness wherever I go,but I'm not an ANIMAL. In fact, Allah,swt, tells us in the Holy Quran that you son of Adam are amongst my vast creation but I've honor you with specialities that are not given to any of my creation. Allah,swt,ennobles me as a human,thus , He sends the messengers and sends down the messages to people(note that they are not for animals or plants but for you son of Adam(humans)because you are given abilities that are not given to any of His other creation. I'm not a rabbit compared to God. I'm one of God's great creation and I'm so proud that he honored me and made me human and asked me to glorify Him .
hope my point was clear...

---

I've never heard what hitchiker is putting forth. Actually religious thought usually has a hiearchy where God is on top, perhaps angels next, man follows, and then animals below. Religious thought (at least Christianity which is the only one I'm qualified to speak about) typically separates man and anmals, and man is considered to be in God's image.

You know I think I get what hes saying -- hope this is the right track, maybe what you needed was a differant animal as an analogy like sheep for example.
Do you mean that a rabbit -should a human take intrest has no power at all over its life we get to eat it, starve it feed it, lock it up in a dirty little cage, or lavish thousands of pounds on really expensive pet accessories.
So if Im on the right track basically the question is we have no more power than the rabbit, or sheep and are simply led pushed/ forced into our lives from birth till death and beyond.

I dont belive that. I belive that which sets us apart from animals and Angels is our ability to choose. All Gods creations on our earth ( including inanimate objects) apart from humans worship God in their very exsitance but not us as we get to choose it which is why we are the 'inheritors' of earth which is basically one big long series of tiny tests that add up.

And I bet this makes absaloutly no sense to anyone but me...miss T maybe you can explain it better what Im trying to get into is the 'zeinat hayat el dunyah' and 'the sukhar lukm' ayyahs

EDIT: does this make more sense??? http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=19619&page=8
if not I pretty much give up.. you need to live inside my head to understand me.
:D:D

Quote:

---

Last edited : 10-19-2006 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Flaming

---

Virgil, I can't help it, you make me laugh. :D :thumbs_up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “cuppajoe_9”

Just jokes, man, just jokes.

---

:lol: Ah, it seems clear now. Thanks for explaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

Well one could say that humans are better because we've achieved civilization and wars and New York and so on, but that's hardly an objective critera. We're inventing those criteria because it's what we're good at.

---

I’m not saying that humans are better because of the achievements that they’ve produced (although I can imagine that I haven’t been clear thus far), I’m saying that mankind is of a different class than the rest of creation because of their special attributes, characteristics, and abilities (which of course enable them to achieve).

The capacity to achieve what we have is what stands human kind apart. Why do I choose this criteria? From examining the characteristics of life on this planet, the ones that humans possess are distinct from all the rest.

Your last sentence is interesting from the perspective that Kurtz tried to put forth, i.e. the human superiority complex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “cuppajoe_9”

You can either find one or become apathetic, and apathy does no good to anybody.

---

That’s something I can appreciate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Nightshade”

am having what before PC would be called a 'blond' moment can you explain what that means I was going to PM you but thats too much bother.

---

It is still called a blond moment, Nightshade. Let come what may.

So far I think I’ve managed to argue without letting theism or atheism play a part.

As a theist I am obligated to believe that people have souls and that they are divinely originated. They are morally capable agents created in God’s very image for a reason. That makes them superior to tapeworms, chimpanzees, and e-coli.

I think it has been acknowledged, however, that even given atheism, human beings are “special” regarding their placement in the animal kingdom. The original question was, by the way, “Are human beings special or are we nothing more than mere rabbits.” Doesn’t distinguish between animals, folks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Nightshade”

why?

---

I find the ability to reason “superior” to the ability to breathe underwater because it comes from the mind – breathing underwater is nothing more than a physical attribute (that humans have found a way to master, by the way, as shown above). The fact that the fish’s main distinction is the ownership of gills is less “impressive” than the human ownership of reason (and this is an entirely personal opinion).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightshade

well Ill admit that Ill also admit that as a muslim my beliefs point me in he dirrection of humans while not being supirior are the master race,

---

I’m confused here, please help explicate for me. How can humans be the ‘master race’ and yet not be ‘superior’? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the definitions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Do you mean that a rabbit -should a human take intrest has no power at all over its life we get to eat it, starve it feed it, lock it up in a dirty little cage, or lavish thousands of pounds on really expensive pet accessories.

---

This is quirky, given the human-rabbit comparison, because humans do all these things to other humans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Nightshade”

, but then agan I also belive that all animals have sould and are capable and do in fat worship God.

---

This is the question that arises out of my beliefs above, that humans are created in God’s image, and have souls. Why then it seems clear that they are ‘superior’ to animals (although this implies that animals do not have souls). This is a spiritual issue that I haven’t the time or inclination to explore, though it might be worthwhile. I just haven’t had occasion to go about deciding for myself if animals have souls. Though Virgil said this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Virgil”

Actually religious thought usually has a hiearchy where God is on top, perhaps angels next, man follows, and then animals below. Religious thought (at least Christianity which is the only one I'm qualified to speak about) typically separates man and anmals, and man is considered to be in God's image.

---

That’s fine for me, I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Virgil”

All that for nothing? What? Do you realize how you got people's passions up?

---

I guess we’ve made this thread what we want it to be, regardless of the opening poster’s intent. That, however, is the risk when participating in a thread whose purpose isn’t clearly communicated, I guess. I like the turn this thread has taken anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightshade

And thats an interesting point once its out there/here for reinterpritation does it actually matter what the authours intention was?

---

Not to me it doesn’t.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Turk”

i dismiss your arguments becasue i don't think they are sensible to me.

---

cuppajoe_9's posts are of a much higher quality than some of the others on this forum (mine probably included). Over time you come to find that you appreciate a person actually reading your posts and taking the time to respond thoughtfully to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

I think I'm being fairly calm, considering that in the course of this conversation I've been called a jackass, a nazi, an amoral hypocrite, uneducated and too young to possibly have a valid argument.

---

I wasn't the perpetrator of any of those, was I? ;) :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Orionsbelt”

However, so now the question becomes how special is this feature? And then further so what?

---

I don’t think these questions really matter (given atheism). If we are purely animals, different in degree but not ultimately in kind from every other living thing, then what does the speciality of these features matter? We can observe them and manipulate them.

“So what?” I can’t see that there is any “So what.” Read some good books that are available to you because of it (and do so in a “clean, well lighted place”). Be observant of it and contemplate how we are the way we are.

Given theism, then I think it provides a grounds for observing a reflection of the divine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Orionsbelt”

Having introduced yourself as the representative peak of the planet, what would you say to the delegation from Outland?

---

I’d ask how long I’d been dreaming, and if it was alright if I woke up. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

I’m saying that mankind is of a different class than the rest of creation because of their special attributes, characteristics, and abilities (which of course enable them to achieve).

The capacity to achieve what we have is what stands human kind apart. Why do I choose this criteria? From examining the characteristics of life on this planet, the ones that humans possess are distinct from all the rest.

---

There's no denying that we're unique, I agree, and that is something to be proud of, but I'm still irritated by said 'human superiority complex'. I think we're basically in agreement, just coming at it from different angles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightshade

am having what before PC would be called a 'blond' moment can you explain what that means I was going to PM you but thats too much bother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

It is still called a blond moment, Nightshade. Let come what may.

---

---

Interesting that the blonde joke was, I believe, originally developed as a less offensive alternative to the racist joke, probably on the grounds that nobody could reasonably believe that blondes are actually less intelligent than anybody else. In conclusion: political correctness is ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

This is quirky, given the human-rabbit comparison, because humans do all these things to other humans.

---

Oh the symbolism!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

cuppajoe_9's posts are of a much higher quality than some of the others on this forum (mine probably included). Over time you come to find that you appreciate a person actually reading your posts and taking the time to respond thoughtfully to them.

---

You make me blush.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hitchhiker

I wonder if man is something special in this world or are we just merely as special as rabbits or any other animal for that. What I am saying, is man special in the way are we able to truely concieve the meaning of life or are we just ignorant for thinking that we can. The rabbit I am talking about is the simpale creature that goes through life wanting nothing more then to reporduce and just go through life eating and having sex eating and having sex. No questions about life no thoughts or evening careing to think about itor better yet they know that they have no ablilty to understand the conseption of life so why insult who ever started it by thinking they can. So what are we, are we special by haveing the ability to undestand life or are we stupid for even thinking we can are we jsut as important as rabbits.

---

I woke up early in the morning. I go to school. I talk with friends. I come home and eat meal. Then, I start browsing this forum. After this, I do some other activities like having discussion with my grandfather or doing homeworks and stuff. That's my life. That's how I am spending it. That's my concept of life. I am special. My friend's cat is special. My friend is special as well. The monkey I saw in the zoo last year was oh-so-special. So, why not take it that everyone is special? Different in a way or other so special. Everyone knows the "concept of life", that's another thing that their judgement can be different from us. If Rabbits haven't discovered nuclear power or stuff, it doesn't make them less special, or it doesn't prove that "they haven't got the concept of life."

As far We can see, there have been these basic thoughts concerning the opinion that human beings are not animals:

1) religious. God made men in his image and so they are not animals. Can't argue that. Faith is a thing that stands away from logic.

2) The fact that we're special and unique. Yes, we are. We see a problem of defining here.

Quote:

---

American Heritage Dictionary states that an animal is 'A multicellular organism of the kingdom Animalia, differing from plants in certain typical characteristics such as capacity for locomotion, nonphotosynthetic metabolism, pronounced response to stimuli, restricted growth, and fixed bodily structure.'. If we agree on this definition, then, no doubt, we are animals.

However, the same dictionary also adds that an animal can be 'An animal organism other than a human, especially a mammal.' So it seems like we are not the only ones who are struggling to decide whether we are animals or not.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

What makes you think I'm uneducated in those fields? I was raised Catholic and am a student of history in college, I think I know at least a few things.

If you don't want to argue with me then don't. I think I'm being fairly calm, considering that in the course of this conversation I've been called a jackass, a nazi, an amoral hypocrite, uneducated and too young to possibly have a valid argument. To be perfectly frank, I could do without that kind of 'argument'.

---

Your answers make me think you doesn't have enough knowledge about religion and history. And raising as Catholic doesn't mean understanding religion even Catholicism, everyone borns in a society and everyone raised in a culture, but raising in a Catholic or Muslim or Buddhist society doesn't mean you know/understand essence of those religions. And i don't have knowledge about specialities of your history class and it's level since everyone get education almost everyone has history classes in their education life and yeah i didn't say you don't know anything, i'm sure you know a few things i just said you don't know enough.

"If you don't want to argue with me then don't" : reason is not your personality as i explained, i don't like to argue with very young or very old people because of some other reasons. And as i know i didn't call you Nazi, uneducated or jackass, i just told you'r too young and don't know enough.

Quote:

---

cuppajoe_9's posts are of a much higher quality than some of the others on this forum (mine probably included). Over time you come to find that you appreciate a person actually reading your posts and taking the time to respond thoughtfully to them.

---

I don't like to repeat my words, but as i told; i didn'T say he has no thoughts, as everyone he has thoughts too and i told it. But without enough knowledge about a specific subject i think it's almost impossible to reach correct thoughts.

From this point i'll try to sa some things i think;

Virgil; i'm not sure about Christianity, because i didn't research about this question in Christianity, but in İslam human is supreme than angels, because according to İslam God give us ability to choose, free will. But angels doesn't have free will that's why he ordered angels to prostrate in front of human and show him respect you know the last part i think. Satan rejected this because of his arrogance (though some İslamic scholars have different thoughts about Satan's manner, according to them Satan was so faithful and that's why didn't want to pray prostrate to man, and that was a "blind" faith, that make him forget obeying orders of God is true faith. An interesting claim. Although this kind of faith also includes arrogance, i think those scholars misses this weak part of their argument).

Back to main subject, human is supreme than animal not because we did nuclear plant. This point of view just fits to materialist-scientisist point of view of western people. So technology makes us more "supreme" than others? Bravo. While Chinese people much "civilized" than Europeans, Brittania invaded their lands and massacred thousands of Chinese. Well now can we say English was supreme than Chinese just because they had stronger ships and cannons? Our humanity and values make us higher being than an animal. Not our technology.

We can try to understand things in universe, we can understand each other's sorrow, happiness, peace etc. We can love, animals can't. For God's sake, i would like to ask people who claim we are animals; didn't you ever fell in love with someone without thinking sex?

Well at the last word i would like to clarify one more thing.

Now we think similar in one point. People who uses technology to kill others nothing but bunch of wild wolves. People who never loved a woman or guy without thinking sex are just bunch of lustful pigs. People who never thinks about others but live for eating, fun and enjoy are just bunch of monkeys, dogs and sheeps. I agree with you, some people can be animal. But that doesn't mean ideal man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Taliesin”

As far We can see, there have been these basic thoughts concerning the opinion that human beings are not animals:

1) religious. God made men in his image and so they are not animals. Can't argue that. Faith is a thing that stands away from logic.

---

This aspect has just come into play. The majority of the thread was conducted without cognizance of theistic issues, and it worked great that way, as far as I can tell. Besides which, your summation of the "religious" side of it is lacking much, I'm afraid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “Taliesin”

2) The fact that we're special and unique. Yes, we are. We see a problem of defining here.

---

We have several facts. One is the opening question:

“Are humans special or are we nothing more the mere rabbits?”

We have the definition of 'special':

- Distinguished by some unusual quality.

- Of a distinct or particular kind or character.
- Being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain.

The answer seems clear to me, and I think we've all agreed on the answer. Is there anything wrong with the following, besides my grammar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

It doesn't matter how many great works of literature or amazing sculptures or breathtaking temples we build, we will still be multicellular organisms of the kingdom Animalia.

---

Of course we are, and of course we are infinitely different than the rest of the organisms represented there.

---

Disregarding theistic issues, can't we agree that humans are “special” in comparison to the rest of life on this planet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cuppajoe_9

I think we're basically in agreement, just coming at it from different angles.

---

Word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by “cuppajoe_9”

You make me blush.

---

We'll see how long that lasts. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pensive

I woke up early in the morning. I go to school. I talk with friends. I come home and eat meal. Then, I start browsing this forum. After this, I do some other activities like having discussion with my grandfather or doing homeworks and stuff. That's my life. That's how I am spending it. That's my concept of life. I am special. My friend's cat is special. My friend is special as well. The monkey I saw in the zoo last year was oh-so-special. So, why not take it that everyone is special? Different in a way or other so special. Everyone knows the "concept of life", that's another thing that their judgement can be different from us. If Rabbits haven't discovered nuclear power or stuff, it doesn't make them less special, or it doesn't prove that "they haven't got the concept of life."

---

Hi Pensive! :banana:

What definition of 'special' are you using?

p.s. I agree, you're special. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

Your answers make me think you doesn't have enough knowledge about religion and history. And raising as Catholic doesn't mean understanding religion even Catholicism, everyone borns in a society and everyone raised in a culture, but raising in a Catholic or Muslim or Buddhist society doesn't mean you know/understand essence of those religions.

---

Well then you're just going to have to take my word for it aren't you? I don't claim any experise, but I understand religion and have a reasonable outline of history. I don't actually recall stating anything whatsoever about history onn this thread, so I have no idea where you're pulling this from. I have some essays about the English Civil War you can read if you don't believe me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

And as i know i didn't call you Nazi, uneducated or jackass, i just told you'r too young and don't know enough.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

...And your point of view is not so different than Nazi point of view...

---

The jackass line was Virgil's. Anyway...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

Back to main subject, human is supreme than animal not because we did nuclear plant. This point of view just fits to materialist-scientisist point of view of western people.

---

Look brah, materialism (in the sense that I assume you are using it) is not the dominant philosophy in the western world. Fully half of the materialists in my city, for example, moved to Edmonton last year. She's a nice girl. Anyway, you are putting words into my mouth (and the mouthes of my fellow materialists). I never said that humans are in any way "supreme", technology or no. In fact, I have been vigorously opposing this viewpoint for the entire thread, as I remember it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

We can try to understand things in universe, we can understand each other's sorrow, happiness, peace etc. We can love, animals can't.

---

That last point is debatable (and it's not a debate I'm particularly interested in having, if nobody minds), but as I said, we're certainly unique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

For God's sake, i would like to ask people who claim we are animals; didn't you ever fell in love with someone without thinking sex?

---

Can't say I ever fallen in love with someone without that thought at least crossing my mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

Now we think similar in one point. People who uses technology to kill others nothing but bunch of wild wolves. People who never loved a woman or guy without thinking sex are just bunch of lustful pigs.

---

Well I (and, I imagine, Virgil) take issue with the wolf imagery. Wolves do not, despite their reputation, go around killing things for no reason. They hunt for food, and when they have enough food they stop hunting. This is not because of any compassion or understanding of the balance of nature, or any such garbage, it's simply because hunting when you already have food is a waste of time and time is a very valuable comodity in the arcitic. As a pacifist, however, I agree with the statement.

I cannot agree with your second sentence whatsoever. There is nothing wrong with sex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turk

agree with you, some people can be animal. But that doesn't mean ideal man.

---

That's not at all what I have been saying, and I think you know it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoutGrace

Disregarding theistic issues, can't we agree that humans are “special” in comparison to the rest of life on this planet?

---

Sure can (except for the part about 'infinitely').

Quote:

---

Well then you're just going to have to take my word for it aren't you? I don't claim any experise, but I understand religion and have a reasonable outline of history. I don't actually recall stating anything whatsoever about history onn this thread, so I have no idea where you're pulling this from. I have some essays about the English Civil War you can read if you don't believe me.

---

Well, then we understand it differen from each other. I was the first one who mentioned about history in this thread i guess. It's because of subject, this question is not just a simple question according to me. To understand something important about man we have to look history, philosophy and religion. And i believe your word, why wouldn't i?

I still say i just called you too young and that's truth i think. Having a common thought-similarity with Nazis about a specific subject doesn't mean being Nazi. Nazis and Communist had many common parts, both two regime affected from Materialism and Darwinism. But both two was different than each other. So as result i didn't call you uneducated or Nazi.

Quote:

---

Look brah, materialism (in the sense that I assume you are using it) is not the dominant philosophy in the western world. Fully half of the materialists in my city, for example, moved to Edmonton last year. She's a nice girl. Anyway, you are putting words into my mouth (and the mouthes of my fellow materialists). I never said that humans are in any way "supreme", technology or no. In fact, I have been vigorously opposing this viewpoint for the entire thread, as I remember it.

---

As i see Materialism is dominant philosophy in western world. In a Capitalist world Materialism have to be dominant philosophy, because true goals of religion completely opposite of Capitalism, first of all while Capitalism is a waste economy religions bans to waste. In this point i would like to tell that Materialism can be in a religion too, so if a religion changed by worldy goals of politicians, clergy class or anything that religion is not a true religion anymore. So even some of the men who's lookin like a believer can have Materialist thoughts (without realizing it) at their background since they grown up in a Capitalist society.

Quote:

---

Back to main subject, human is supreme than animal not because we did nuclear plant. This point of view just fits to materialist-scientisist point of view of western people.

---

And this wasn't for you, read posts before my post.

Shortly 1-2 things more to clarify; wolf is my favorite animal and i appreciate wolves, wolf is the maybe most smart hunter of animal world, but as you know wolf is symbol of wild so i used those animals as metaphor. :) And there's nothing wrong with sex. But i meant something different there...