Do muslims love Jesus (peace must be upon him)???

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Originally Posted by Diadem

Jesus was God the Father manifested in the flesh. Bliblical scripture confirmed it. I posted the exact scriptures. I don't know what else you're expecting me to say? :thumbs_up

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Unfortunately, if you see it clearly, you would see that you are only worshiping:

- A man who was beaten & humilated (Luke 22:63-64).
- A man who was spat on him (Matthew 26:67).
- Who was hiding when he knew that Jews want to kill him (John 11:53:54).
- Who was captured by the Jews (John 18:2-3).
- Who DIED "in your belief" (Mark 15:37), (John 19:33).
- Who was hungry (Matthew 4:2, 21:18) & (Mark 11:12).
- Who was thirsty (John 19:28).
- Who was sleepy (Matthew 8:24).
- Who was weary (John 4:6).
- Who was groaning (John 11:33, 38).
- Who wept (John 11:35).
- Who was sorrowed (Matthew 26:37) & (Matthew 26:38).
- Who was learning through experience (Hebrews 5:8).
- Who was growing and developing (Luke 2:52).
- Who was powerless as he said that he can do nothing by himself (John 5:30).
- Who does not know when is the Judgement Day (Mark 13:32).
- Who had brothers and brothers in law (Matthew 13:54-56).
- Who was circumcised (Luke 2:21).
- Who was delivered through by a woman like any human being (Luke 26).
- even his mother had the pain of delievery as every woman (Revelation 12:2).
- Who sucked the milk from his mother like any child (Luke 11:27).
- Who was eating and drinking (Matthew 11:19) & (Luke 7:34).
- Who could not find a place to lay his head (Matthew 8:20).

If you see all the characters above, you would clearly rule out any possibility that Jesus was God or even befitting to be God. He was a man, a great man, a very noble man, a great prophet "peace be upon him", but not God. Unfortunately, you turned your heart and worshipped a man (A bit similar to what the Hindu does), but you could not realize that a man can not become God, no matter how he tries. Because a man is a very low level, while God is the Greatness, the Creator, the one who should be worshipped, rather than worshiping someone else.

You know no offence to either of you but I dont see the point in religon bashing or trying to change peoples belief. I think Religon should be a private thing and lt people believe in whatever they wish. I mean noone can be 100 million% sure they're right can they . We are afterall all humans. Its my beilef that in the end we will all find out one way or the other who is right and in till then everyone should go on there own paths
:D Diadem (did I spell that right?) its alright just wondered if my grammer has been more wrong than I thought :D

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Originally Posted by lover of jesus

Unfortunately, if you see it clearly, you would see that you are only worshiping:

- A man who was beaten & humilated (Luke 22:63-64).
- A man who was spat on him (Matthew 26:67).
- Who was hiding when he knew that Jews want to kill him (John 11:53:54).
- Who was captured by the Jews (John 18:2-3).
- Who DIED "in your belief" (Mark 15:37), (John 19:33).
- Who was hungry (Matthew 4:2, 21:18) & (Mark 11:12).
- Who was thirsty (John 19:28).
- Who was sleepy (Matthew 8:24).
- Who was weary (John 4:6).
- Who was groaning (John 11:33, 38).
- Who wept (John 11:35).
- Who was sorrowed (Matthew 26:37) & (Matthew 26:38).
- Who was learning through experience (Hebrews 5:8).
- Who was growing and developing (Luke 2:52).
- Who was powerless as he said that he can do nothing by himself (John 5:30).
- Who does not know when is the Judgement Day (Mark 13:32).
- Who had brothers and brothers in law (Matthew 13:54-56).
- Who was circumcised (Luke 2:21).
- Who was delivered through by a woman like any human being (Luke 26).
- even his mother had the pain of delievery as every woman (Revelation 12:2).
- Who sucked the milk from his mother like any child (Luke 11:27).
- Who was eating and drinking (Matthew 11:19) & (Luke 7:34).
- Who could not find a place to lay his head (Matthew 8:20).

If you see all the characters above, you would clearly rule out any possibility that Jesus was God or even befitting to be God. He was a man, a great man, a very noble man, a great prophet "peace be upon him", but not God. Unfortunately, you turned your heart and worshipped a man (A bit similar to what the Hindu does), but you could not realize that a man can not become God, no matter how he tries. Because a man is a very low level, while God is the Greatness, the Creator, the one who should be worshipped, rather than worshiping someone else.

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He did not have godly powers while in the flesh. The father stripped them from him. I thought I already explained that? lol

Anyway, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I was simply posting information as Christians see it.

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Originally Posted by Diadem

He did not have godly powers while in the flesh. The father stripped them from him. I thought I already explained that? lol

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so , he is not a GOD
???

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of
crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?


this is from bible...

i admit that he is agreat prophet (peace should be upon him)...



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and If salvation is through what Jesus has done and not through what you can do, and if Jesus has erased all your sins, if salvation is through what he has done, then why do you care to be even good, just do all the evil things and you will still be saved since you have "an open cheque" of forgiveness. Once you realize these statements that I'm writing, you will see that you are not right is stating that "Salvation is not what I can do. It is in what Christ has done.".

There is no doubt about what Jesus Christ "peace be upon him" did. He did all the good things in this life, but to make what he did a way for your salvation is only a trick that was used by the Devil to let people do whatever they want and still get the salvation. That's why you would see the Christian world nowadays are having the biggest number of crimes, suicides, incest, adultary, children of adultary, alcoholics, homosexualities, murders etc.

This is again a matter of concept: Everyone is responsible for his own mistakes and good deeds. It is already unfair to bring Christ and let him suffer for things that were not done by him. You believe in something that does not make a good concept and it also again shows God as an unfair God who will let someone innocent suffer for something that others did. It is again a character of God which you are underestimating by showing that He is unfair in what He does.

God let you live in this life to believe in Him to worship Him in the proper way and the best way and then by all the good deeds that you do in this life which will bring you at a higher level in heaven. The key to salvation is through the believe that there is no God but ALLAH, the One, with no sons. After you hold the key, then all your deeds will have a value. If you don't have the key of salvation, then you will not get salvation no matter how good you try to be because you commit the biggest sin which is in not believing in the true God or let's say in underestimating God the Almighty.

Moreover, even the Bible states that the son's sin and the father's should be treated separately:

Ezekiel 18:
19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

The above verse destroys the whole concept of Christianity in all its aspects from concept of the original sin to the crucifiction of Christ to save mankind.

lover of jesus, salam,

I do not understand why you keep on bringing up the same arguments over and over again. And Diadem keeps on saying the same thing over and over again. I really don't see the point of what's going on between you 2.

And I don't understand why you didn't reply to my post yet :(
I mean I don't know if you just don't want to answer it just tell me I don't wanna answer and I'll understand. If you do, then here's the post again, http://www.online-literature.com/for...0&postcount=86. Sheesh this is the third time that i post it :S

Shalom :)

over of Jesus, what you say shows an erroneous error. God is perfect, God is smart, God knows better. Therefore how can he say "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause". What is this!! God knows perfectly well that humans are not objective. God knows perfectly well that I might be fighting with you, but we might both be wrong. God knows perfectly well that, if me and you are fighting, then we are both wrong. In no case whatsoever in a human fight or problem, can one side be wrong and the other be totaly right. That's why Jesus has said thou which is without sins cast the first stone. God knows perfectly well that a human being cannot look at things at a 100% objective point of view. Therefore if you give a sentence such as the one above, it is 100% sure that everyone will mis-interpret it. It is 100% sure that each and every person will think that he is right, and the other is wrong, and that he serves a just cause. God is way smarter than that to say such a thing, specialy in medieval times

Yes ,Allah knows every thing even our intention either it is bad or good , He shows us the right and wrong way and give us the right to choose

When you say, if someone does bad to you, you do bad to that someone. What does that tell you? If we go on that example, then not one good thing will ever come. Let's take an example, back in medieval times lets say. You steal an egg of my chicken, I go back and steal one of the eggs of your chicken. You go back and steal more, I do the same. You go back, steal my chicken, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my chickens, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my son, I go back and kill your son. And it goes on

You are totally wrong , if some one kill your son you can either kill him or forgive him but why you will kill his son??he is innocent and you kill the killer not the son of the killer!! this is not from islam at all

And on a final note. When Muhammad started his islamic conquest, he used the sword


I have posted reply for this issue
When we us esward we use it to protect our country from invaders and this is our right

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http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-11.htm


http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-12.htm


both of these links for explain

Thank u Lover

you nice muslim ;)


http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12-img1.jpg


:)

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Originally Posted by lover of jesus

Yes ,Allah knows every thing even our intention either it is bad or good , He shows us the right and wrong way and give us the right to choose

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What kind of answer is this!! You haven't answered it at all. Read again what I said and try replying to it. Allah, is smarter than that. And he knows pretty damn well that statements as such will bring nothing but chaos.

And anyways, where does your Allah give us the right to choose?
Are you talking about the dhimmis? Are you talking about every non-muslim which has to pay taxes for muslims to show that he is inferior. To show that he has submited to the muslims. Because either he becomes a muslim, or he starts paying them taxes so that he can keep his faith, and even to that he lives under filthy conditions which make him inferior to other humans. And if he doesn't accept to live as a dhimmi, he's killed. Oh yeah, Allah gives us the right to choose.

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Originally Posted by lover of jesus

You are totally wrong , if some one kill your son you can either kill him or forgive him but why you will kill his son??he is innocent and you kill the killer not the son of the killer!! this is not from islam at all

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Dude. You're changing what I said and using it to your own benefit. I didn't necesarily mean to kill his son. You can take it as killing him, the same person. Where does that get you. Back to what I said, according to Islam and the Qur'an, if someone does bad to you, you do bad to him. Do you justify this as right? Do you justify this as God's thinking? Do you think that God tells us to go kill a dude if he tries killing us, or if he kills our relatives? Do you think that God tells us to go attack a dude if another dude attacks us? Come on, try answering what Im saying instead of avoiding all what I say and answering in one short sentence which is off-topic anyways.

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Originally Posted by lover of jesus

I have posted reply for this issue
When we us esward we use it to protect our country from invaders and this is our right

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Maybe you've posted a reply for this issue, but I haven't seen it.

Tell me my friend, what country are you talking about? First, Saudi Arabia didn't even exist. There were cities. And, Muhammad went on, outside of Saudi Arabia, and he used the sword to oblige people to submit to islam and to him. The islamic conquest didn't happen in one or two towns in which Muhammad was residing. The islamic conquest happened all the way up to Spain and Europe. Were those people invaders as well?


Last but not least, try giving me a full answer, instead of going around in circles and not even giving a right answer, and giving me links. Weird, how you were attacking Diadem and posting arguments after arguments after arguments, which he even replied to but you would go back to posting the same arguments; while when I ask you questions about your religion, and I give you arguments after arguments after arguments, all you can do is not answer me until I post it 3times, and after that you give me half-complete sentences which avoid what I say and take them out of context, and don't even reply what I said, and then you give me some links coz u can't answer them yourself.

Way to go :thumbs_up

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Originally Posted by prince

Thank u Lover

you nice muslim ;)


http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12-img1.jpg


:)

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Oh, by the way. Doesn't Islam and Muhammad say that the black man is a rotten grain which got sunburned, and that is how we got black men?

I know that isn't exactly what is said, but this is like a summary of how the black man is described (which is also described as inferior)

Dear Lover of Jesus,

I'm afraid your Jesus is not the same as the Jesus worshipped by Christians. I think there is no point of contact which can be used as a ground for making a communication, or a discussion, or a debate about Jesus possible between you and a Christian. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by dark_182_88

Oh, by the way. Doesn't Islam and Muhammad say that the black man is a rotten grain which got sunburned, and that is how we got black men?

I know that isn't exactly what is said, but this is like a summary of how the black man is described (which is also described as inferior)

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This forum is not here to discuss the inferiority, implied or otherwise, of _anyone_ of any nationality, religion, or belief.

And on that note, this topic is now closed.