Excellent point and well stated. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by bhekti
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Excellent point and well stated. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by bhekti
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhekti
Not always. You can't put aside the fact that sometimes people do things based on motives, that relates to certain interest and needs towards other people.
If they do things for themselves, then they are being driven by a motive, albut an egotistical one, but a motive nonetheless. When it is said this is good, how good is it if it is self motivated? Gratification seems to be a bad word that could possibly be applied her.
You totally missed the point. The point isnt that they feel they would get ahead if they do something good, its just general kindness and satisfaction by way of positive emotions that result from that gracious act. You maybe return someone's lost wallet and you feel good about doing that, only without the brownie points with God.
How do religious people decide when to do things? I'd rather have someone help me because he wants to out of genuine kindness, not because he wants a ticket to Heaven. I'd rather he help me because of self-motivation than to be ego-centric with the supernatural. (My friend is Catholic purely because he wants to go to Heaven.)
This, then, is atheists' theism.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSaNtHrOpE
I am afraid that you have missed the point. I know what you mean and the individual will still gain some level of egotistical satisfaction. Think outside the box for a minute.
FYI Nobody really believes in heaven, not REALLY
Okay, I admit that I haven't been following this thread that closely and perhaps have missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satirical
Your post stuck out to me and I had to ask what you mean by this. I am not chosing a side to debate, I am just curious.
I am joking really, I cannot say that for sure. I myself was raised in the heartland of the American Bible Belt and at a young age thought to myself that people do not really believe the scripture, and they were all just acting. I am sure that I am wrong and that some people do believe, but this is here nor there.
I see. Well, your post made me think, so that's a good thing.
Your comment made me wonder about how many people truly believe in Heaven, as in it being a paradise where the faithful reap the reward of a good life, and how many just consider it a better fate than Hell.
As a child I had a Bible school teacher who described Heaven as if it was a never-ending church service with constant worship and singing. That did not leave me all that enthused about my options for the afterlife. :)
I think, and do not quote me on this, that influences of an industrial society, existential, and rebelliousness in those aspects has a large bearing on the way our generation thinks about things of this nature. We are raised to be obedient and commercial with a wide array of technology opening up other possibilities, and showing us other perspectives that make us question. When I was young I doubted my faith for the first time when I realized it to be not a universal position. It has never recovered and probably never will.
I also read much comparative mythology and that may influence me. Influences, however, are another topic in these regards.
A true atheist is a sensitive person, a very sensitive person. He/she is honest, upright, and reasonable, very reasonable. What is lacking in him/her is patience.
And all Cretans are liars.
overrated......
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhekti
It's unfair to generalize theists with such argument. Theist may do good deeds with the reason of humanity, love, or even for the sake of kindness it self. Punishment and rewards may become considerations to some theists, but not always. And I believe not all (or always) atheists do such thing called "genuine goods"....
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSaNtHrOpE
That's nice of you to say, Bhekti, and very generous...but I don't know if it can really be applied to all atheists. An atheist is merely someone who does not believe in a god or gods; nothing more. It would be nice if all atheists were ethical, sensitive, and reasonable, but I'm afraid that would be something of a dream. Every atheist is different, an atheist is (usually) not part of a set group - each atheist can go his or her own way.Quote:
A true atheist is a sensitive person, a very sensitive person. He/she is honest, upright, and reasonable, very reasonable. What is lacking in him/her is patience.
Of course there are atheists exactly how you described out there; however I feel that sensitivity and reasonableness can't be called general traits of the atheist. ;) Some atheists are very unreasonable, and some very skeptical, insensitive, etc. etc. and they're still atheists.
:) Loki