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I find that listening to too much Vivaldi makes me feel like a serial killer. All that violin... the same with Paganini. Actually, especially Paganini. He makes me want to hang out in a graveyard like he did, that creeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
The "problem" with Vivaldi is that the majority of his reputation, until recently, has rested upon his numerous concerti grossi which quite often were lighter music... intended as mere entertainment or dinner music to be performed by the young ladies... orphans of the courtesans/prostitutes of Venice housed within the the Ospedale degli Innocenti where Vivaldi was the maestro di violino.
The majority of the music of the Baroque and earlier was long forgotten and seldom performed. With the growth of the so-called Historically Informed Performance Movement (HIP) there has been a concerted effort to rediscover this vast treasure trove of "Early Music". Two huge caches of Vivaldi's music were only discovered mid-century and are still undergoing transcription and editorial process prior to publication and performance. What has be discovered among operas, choral music, motets, sonatas, etc... suggests that Vivaldi was a far greater composer than initially thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFM9WYz6J2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceazCccMvzI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XZoW...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQx2TWgxX14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zQX2XqAE8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRkyQm_PIWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVqDBxM55w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYbTPuon_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikHCVWv1uvg
I challenge anyone to find a better performance of this. I'm talking about everything here: Tone, technique, interpretation and whatever else comes to mind.
http://youtu.be/LYi6BQlBCl8
I like Vivaldi too, though I only really know the obvious stuff well, I think.
Still listening to these chaps despite not being religious at all of course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnKbPj7EhCg
...
Edit: 'currently' listening to Stluke's top Vivaldi link though, and wow.
Wow, such beautifully channeled emotion. I'm watching through her YouTube oeuvre now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
Yes it's very easy to be sniffy about the new generation of oriental performers who are setting new standards of performance, as opposed to those of established virtuosi of the West, but as someone who grew up with Rubenstein, Gilels, Richter etc. etc., I have no hesitation in saying that these people are simply amazing from every standpoint and musically the equal of anyone already committed to either the concert hall or recordings.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvia
How well respected is the singer meredith monk?
I challenge anyone to find a better performance of this. I'm talking about everything here: Tone, technique, interpretation and whatever else comes to mind.
Brian... I know you like your young Asian girls (not that this would bias your opinion:rolleyes:) but as good as she is for a 14 year old, I don't find her world class... let alone Rubinstein class.
I find Ami far more stacatto... "jerky" as opposed to the fluidity found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHKS1Bjzpos
Grigory Sokolov is also brilliant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPeZZKh-ye4
Nelson Freire's is quite good... albeit a bit to "French" for my taste:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZHAaaaVRWI
Of course Rubinstein has been and remains the touchstone by which all other recordings of Chopin... and especially recordings of the Nocturnes have been measured. Unfortunately, YouTube doesn't have a recording of Rubinstein performing the 20th. Here he is on the magical Op. 9 no. 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRO05WcNDk
Ami may eventually rise to such a level, but you will notice that no critics are rushing to compare her to the greatest concert pianists of today... or the past. Right now she is a child prodigy. What makes her special is her age, but as I stated before, prodigies are a dime-a-dozen. A vast majority disappear as they reach adulthood.
You see, this is precisely what I mean. The Harasiewicz is too slow and the Sokolov one of the most mannered performances I've heard. Nelson Freire's is a fine performance but does not, in my view, match Kobayashi's.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
It's worth mentioning here that the Japanese performance is live and therefore had only one take. As a matter of fact, there have been music critics in Japan and China who are speaking of her with the same reverence that is given to other international pianists. She received a great reception at her Carnegie Hall appearance and also in Russia at St Petersburg. Unfortunately, she doesn't like travelling and that is why the majority of her concerts take place in Japan. Of course I would rather watch beautiful oriental women playing than their male Western counterparts but in the final analysis, it's what I hear that's important.
I have the Rubinstein recording that you have posted and have heard it often, but I'm fairly certain that in due course a performance just as fine will be coming from Asia.
You see, this is precisely what I mean. The Harasiewicz is too slow and the Sokolov one of the most mannered performances I've heard...
Who discerns what is "too slow" (or too mannered) concerning Chopin? Is not Glenn Gould often deemed as "mannered"? I think that common sense would lean toward the interpretation by a masterful Polish pianist as opposed to that of a Japanese child. "Interpretation", of course, involves considering and understanding the intentions of the original artist or composer (Murray Perahia, for example, reads up extensively upon any composer he intends to record... including looking at multiple versions of the original scores). Interpretation also involves imposing one's own artistic ideas. One would suspect that much of the "interpretation" of a 14 year-old girl is owing more to her teachers than anyone else. As for imposing her own artistic vision... this commonly involves having lived a bit beyond middle-school.
Again, she is masterful for her age, but whether she continues to develop and eventually join the ratified ranks of the leading concert pianists... this is a question that will still be decided. The percentage of child prodigies who evolve into leading adult performers is rare. Itzahk Perlman comes immediately to mind.
I have the Rubinstein recording that you have posted and have heard it often, but I'm fairly certain that in due course a performance just as fine will be coming from Asia.
Art is not something that evolves or develops in the same manner as science. Any medical student today knows more about the human body and illnesses than the greatest doctors of the Renaissance. No one alive today (that we know of) composes as brilliantly as Mozart or can draw as well as Michelangelo.
The challenge facing the next generation of performers is something that the leading younger performers are already mastering... and that is uncovering and mastering a body of music that goes beyond the usual core repertoire. At some point yet another pianist who can play Chopin or Tchaikovsky brilliantly becomes irrelevant when we can always access Rubinstein. Why do we need a new cycle of Beethoven's symphonies when Karajan's unrivaled 1963 recording is readily available... and sounds better than even? We don't... unless like John Eliot Gardiner we are offered a radically new historically informed interpretation. Both Hillary Hahn and Anne-Sophie Mutter have risen to the top of the ranks of living violinists as a result of their willingness... their insistence on making recordings of less-well-known repertoire that rivals the finest made of Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, etc... I think that for
Kobayashi to enter the leading ranks of concert pianists she will also need to bring something new to the dialog.
Admittedly where your opinions are biased by the appearance of the young Asian women, mine are biased by a suspicion of the promotional machinery behind the current crop of Asian "superstars" (such as Lang Lang) promoted with an intention of cashing in on the huge audiences of China, Korea, and Japan.
We all decide which performances we prefer by listening to various recordings and if one stands out as being too slow or mannered, then we say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
I listen regularly to the BBC music channel which makes comparisons of recordings of the same work, and the presenters are constantly making such references. Music is subjective and it's impossible not to have personal preferences, as you demonstrate by your preference for Rubinstein who, while he is a great performer of Chopin, is not notable for his Tchaikovsky 1st whereas Van Cliburn's is to my mind the definitive performance: although, once again, it's a personal choice. Moreover I have a recording of Rubinstein playing both Chopin concertos with Barbirolli which I don't think as good as that played by Zimmerman and Giulini. As for Karajan's Beethoven symphonies, he recorded the cycle four times during his career. Once with the Philharmonia Orchestra for EMI and subsequently with the BPO on Deutsche Grammophon. So why did he need to re-record them twice after the first set that you mention as being unrivalled? As a matter of fact, I have that set myself.
I do not share your opinion that a prodigy of 14-years-of-age doesn't have the experience to play Chopin at the highest level, a teenage girl is probably at the stage where she will feel the music as perhaps she never will as an adult and her keyboard technique speaks for itself. It's also worth remembering that Mozart was a child prodigy who received the highest praise whether playing in Vienna, Prague, Paris or London.
The promotional machinery applied to Lang Lang and other concert pianists may well be intended to cash in on the oriental market but his record company, namely Deutsche Grammophon, were experts at cashing in on the western market as witness their promotion of the Berlin Philharmonic when Karajan arrived on the Berlin scene post WW11.
Music is subjective and it's impossible not to have personal preferences, as you demonstrate by your preference for Rubinstein who, while he is a great performer of Chopin, is not notable for his Tchaikovsky 1st whereas Van Cliburn's is to my mind the definitive performance: although, once again, it's a personal choice. Moreover I have a recording of Rubinstein playing both Chopin concertos with Barbirolli which I don't think as good as that played by Zimmerman and Giulini.
Yes. Zimerman is another favored performer as Chopin... along with Martha Argerich. Honestly Chopin is not one of those composers who I am so enamored of that I am likely to purchase several interpretations of each work where I might live with such variations and make in-depth comparisons. I love Dinu Lupatti's classic recordings of Chopin. I have Ashkenazy's, which are solid... but don't jump out at me in any way. I have a good number of Martha's Chopin recordings and have heard Zimerman's and both are impressive... but note strike me as sensitive to the nuances as Rubinstein... especially with the Nocturne's.
Now you are certainly right that no performer is an all-around master of every composer. I would turn to Van Cliburn as well for Tchaikovsky's 1st. For Mozart there are numerous contenders, but Perahia is seemingly the standard-bearer. Beethoven? For the concertos Fleisher/Szell, Serkin/Bernstein, Brendel/Levine, Barenboim/Klemperer, Perahia/Haitink... anyone is great. In other instances there is but a single definitive recording... as isn the work I am currently listening to:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6...d7df18a49b.jpg
The promotional machinery applied to Lang Lang and other concert pianists may well be intended to cash in on the oriental market but his record company, namely Deutsche Grammophon, were experts at cashing in on the western market as witness their promotion of the Berlin Philharmonic when Karajan arrived on the Berlin scene post WW11.
But then Karajan lived up to the hype (as the disc above illustrates) where Lang Lang is a bit more questionable.
Don't get me wrong. I don't underestimate the Asian performers. Suzuki's recordings of Bach are among the finest available:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6...0db5ee5ef5.jpg
Mitsuko Uchida has been masterfully recording and performing Mozart across the world. Her recordings of Schubert's piano sonatas have reawakened interest in this genre and stand second only (perhaps) to Wilhelm Kempff.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...9ec83b56eb.jpg
Yet for all here masterful, elegant touch and classical reserve, she has been equally instrumental in unveiling the splendours of some more knotty Modernist works including Schoenberg's Piano Concerto, works by Berg and Webern, and Debussy's Etudes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6...0cf385d39c.jpg
Myung-Whun Chung is especially adept within the French repertoire. His damnation of Faust by Berlioz is one of the finest and these two discs are essential recordings:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6...1c760fb260.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6...56f830ca19.jpg
Sumi Jo has proven herself as a brilliant operatic singer. This collection of French songs has been repeatedly re-released... a sign of classic status:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7164/6...0c079f1864.jpg
And we cannot forget this recording with Solti:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6...ee8671ae03.jpg
And what of Hei-Kyung Hong? This collection of Korean "classics" largely unknown in the West is an example of an artist exploring the less-well-traveled turf:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6...6871e165b2.jpg
And then of course there's the Asian with the biggest name in classical music... in spite of the actual brevity of his name. Yo-Yo Ma has proven himself in performances of the most challenging classical repertoire:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...78ae97a141.jpg
... often working in tandem with any number of equally talented virtuoso:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7159/6...53b69be6e1.jpg
But he has also explored a broad array of music... from the lush film music of Morricone:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6...6e8763d5c0.jpg
... to the tangos of Astor Piazzolla:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...e2c96c67bf.jpg
... to American folk music:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6...019ffc59f2.jpg
... and the traditional music of Asia and the Middle-East:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6...3ddd57ca4a.jpg
Classical music is truly that word which you so despise: MULTICULTURAL.:D
[QUOTE=stlukesguild;1101789Classical music is truly that word which you so despise: MULTICULTURAL.:D[/QUOTE]
My preference would be for the standard description of music being the INTERNATIONAL language.
I fell for this work when I was very young and I still love it. The harp glissandi at 9.41 used to make the hairs on my neck stand on end.
It is difficult to get the dynamics right because of its cyclical form but here Bernstein in a typically energetic performance succeeds where so many others have failed. The little gesture with his fist after its stunning conclusion is saying "I nailed it."
http://youtu.be/5GbZGJ6uEXA
(not too sure if this was previously posted here....)
For me, great accompaniment for a cold-yet-sunny afternoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbcuteYm-EA