What Attracts You First? Poll #1 for Women Only

[QUOTE=cacian;1155379]can anyone please explain what this Alpha is all about?

The individuals in the community with the highest rank. Where only certain males and females fulfill this role

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I truly find the whole word irritating when combined with the word male. I am sure the Greeks inventor of the alpha word won't be happy to have it associated with a gender.

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I did not research into the Greek origin, but I find it very interesting - thanks for pointing it out. It meant the first letter in the alphabet - so the word evolved from first to mean the top. I suppose if you do not like the word or the natural evolution over time and languages - I dunno what to say. I don't like alot of words, but to wipe them out of the dictionary or usage is not the sort of censorship I would support. Would you?

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In fact this whole alphamism reminds of the men are from mars and women from venus.

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Fair enough- sounds like a reasonable reference.

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Sorry!! when I first saw that I nearly cried of laughter it was that ridiculous.

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Ok.

I am a firm believer that both men and women have a common ground and a different side but all the same are equal in abilities and thinking.[/QUOTE

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We do have common ground, alot of common ground What does men and women being equal in abilities and thinking mean? We as individuals are not equal in abilites and thinking.

I'm beginning to think this whole 'alpha' male thing is a myth made up by other men. I've never ever heard a woman use the term in describing a male for as long as I have lived on this earth. It's just a term men have created in order to describe certain men they admire, and then make idols out of them e.g. such as stars from stage and screen, which are necessarily mythical and fantasized. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood. Am I getting close? How about Bruce Lee? This idea of a man with indestructable resolution and an uncompromising fortitude; who will never cry or lose his cool over a woman, and knows how to act in any and all situations. Smells fishy to me.

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Originally Posted by Babyguile

I'm beginning to think this whole 'alpha' male thing is a myth made up by other men. I've never ever heard a woman use the term in describing a male for as long as I have lived on this earth. It's just a term men have created in order to describe certain men they admire, and then make idols out of them e.g. such as stars from stage and screen, which are necessarily mythical and fantasized. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood. Am I getting close? How about Bruce Lee? This idea of a man with indestructable resolution and an uncompromising fortitude; who will never cry or lose his cool over a woman, and knows how to act in any and all situations. Smells fishy to me.

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You might not be familiar with the concept, but yet I bet you could spot one in a second.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-alpha-male.htm

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In human societies alpha male can mean very different things. Some use the term to mean the guy who seems most at ease with women and can essentially marry or date any woman of his choice. In this sense the alpha male is often good-looking, has a great build, and may have a relatively high socioeconomic status...

In adult social settings, alpha males again may be judged not so much by aggression, but by their ability to get the most attractive women as mates. This is the primary reason for alpha behavior in other animals...

In work settings, the alpha male may be a natural leader, exuding confidence. But he also may be contentious, demanding and difficult to work with. This is thought to be in part due to the alpha male attempting to retain his stature, however unconsciously, as alpha. Being the top salesperson, the quickest worker, the most aggressive boss may contribute to remaining at the top, and the alpha male has a tendency to respond aggressively to any attempts by others to outshine him.

The alpha male in adult society is likely to be confident, attractive, and wealthy. Questions remain as to whether the alpha male can retain mates, since relationships often require ability to compromise, to discuss feelings and to be sensitive. Some alpha males have these characteristics typically thought of as beta, but many of them lack such traits. You can certainly point to prominent alpha males in our society who seem to have poor track records with women, either involving themselves in a succession of failed relationships or marrying one woman after another, with no marriage lasting for very long.

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Aren't intellectuals, like Orwell and Hitchens, the ultimate alphas? Tell me if I am mistaken, but unless you are really into athletics or womanizing, it seems the ultimate expressions of one's alpha male dominance are in the realm of the mind, in debate.

The brain is the ultimate weapon, the most powerful feature of modern man. Women see a guy with a good head on his shoulders and this turns them on, on a surface and on an instinctual level.

To me its all about instincts. Charm is mostly cerebral. The best way to impress a woman is to charm her. Dancing is good too but I find there are a lot of women who are too self-conscious to dance and will only do so if they are drunk.

Which brings me to something I should express my annoyance at. The oversexualization of dance. Dance is not just a sex thing, its a fun thing. I go dance in a bar and I have these bleach-blonde tanning-bed-addicted Oompa Lumpas getting all over me when I really just want to dance. What is with that? Such things are supposed to be done in a bedroom or the backseat of a car, not on a dance floor in front of complete strangers.

I need a time machine. 12th century Ireland is where I belong. Any time God, any time......

[QUOTE=tonywalt;1155386]

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Originally Posted by cacian

can anyone please explain what this Alpha is all about?

The individuals in the community with the highest rank. Where only certain males and females fulfill this role



I did not research into the Greek origin, but I find it very interesting - thanks for pointing it out. It meant the first letter in the alphabet - so the word evolved from first to mean the top. I suppose if you do not like the word or the natural evolution over time and languages - I dunno what to say. I don't like alot of words, but to wipe them out of the dictionary or usage is not the sort of censorship I would support. Would you?



Fair enough- sounds like a reasonable reference.

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We do have common ground, alot of common ground What does men and women being equal in abilities and thinking mean? We as individuals are not equal in abilites and thinking.

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Women and men behave and think in the exact same way. It might not be the same words we use but we sure have the same needs the same feelings and we both are attracted to each other one way or another and so we must have lots in common.
''birds of the same feather flock together'' and so yes we very similar and like the company of each other so we must have many similarities and differences too.

Thanks Neely for that very good description of the meaning.

Darcy, definitely. It is largely determined by intelligence, it's not determined by the physicality of the guy.

I think what the girls on the thread are saying, and I fully agree, is that they do not like the concept or idea. Yea, it's an unattractive and unfair reality - but it's a reality.
I do not like War, but humans will give into base instinct and behauvior and have wars and conflicts - it's just the way it is or not. It's fishy. I'm not sure I buy it - and I definitely don't want it.

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This idea of a man with indestructable resolution and an uncompromising fortitude; who will never cry or lose his cool over a woman, and knows how to act in any and all situations.

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I fully agree. An alpha would have to compromise at times to remain Alpha. And they have to be able to emote - otherwise women will not be attracted to them.

Societal Markers of an alpha male are the culturally derirable consequences of high testosterone males. Women have been socially conditioned to find these qualities important, since they signify a man’s ability to provide and support during the vulnerable stage of pregnacy and raising a dependent young. It consists in broad description of Power, relative wealth-but not a rule, as potential is just as powerful, Status

The Catch-22, however, is that the men who have been able to acquire the power, wealth, and status due to the interplay of their physiology and socioeconomic factors (education, good upbringing) are also the ones who seem to be more likely to display less commitement to use these resources for a long term partnership and parental investment.

[QUOTE=cacian;1155400]

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Women and men behave and think in the exact same way.

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I'm afraid that they don't. Men are attuned to the quick conquest whereas women are looking for the long term. This is the basis for the war between the sexes.

[QUOTE=cacian;1155400]

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Women and men behave and think in the exact same way. It might not be the same words we use but we sure have the same needs the same feelings and we both are attracted to each other one way or another and so we must have lots in common.
''birds of the same feather flock together'' and so yes we very similar and like the company of each other so we must have many similarities and differences too.

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Men and women have an awful lot of similarities, but we do not act in the "same exact way". This sort of idealism that spawned in certian social movements in the 60's and 70's is very very well meaning and I absolutely agree motivation behind the movement(s) - equal opportunities. No exceptions. Always.

The rhetoric gets too dreamily idealistic and filled with bubblegum soundbites. I base my beliefs on reality and try to mix in my kinder gentler dispostion the best I can.

If you want to know what an Alpha male is like, I can send you a couple - they are in the Corner Offices of the building I am in. And they are decidedly and perfectly charming with women(and men for that matter) and not anything like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. But to underestimate their Ambitions would be incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Babyguile

I'm beginning to think this whole 'alpha' male thing is a myth made up by other men. I've never ever heard a woman use the term in describing a male for as long as I have lived on this earth. It's just a term men have created in order to describe certain men they admire, and then make idols out of them e.g. such as stars from stage and screen, which are necessarily mythical and fantasized. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood. Am I getting close? How about Bruce Lee? This idea of a man with indestructable resolution and an uncompromising fortitude; who will never cry or lose his cool over a woman, and knows how to act in any and all situations. Smells fishy to me.

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So, because something is not explicitly named in everyday conversation, that thing doesn't exist?

Christopher Hitchens would qualify as Alpha. I was thinking of guys who qualify as Alpha, but do not conform to the jock or physically tough guy.

Colin Firth qualifies, again brainy, cultured, and not conforming to John Wayne type. Alpha, and that is with or even without fame.

Marlon Brando, although externally athletic, was intellectual. He is a stretch and not a great choice, but could easily fit in on this forum.

Russell Brand. Controversial, and perhaps disliked by a big block of both men and women. Definitely not in the dumb jock camp but complex etc. qualifies as Alpha with or without fame.

Che Guevara. Watch this video(first bit is silent with his plane landing, then audio kicks in), Che is talking politics, but if you watch how he 'carries himself', his eye contact, his presentation, Humour and Intelligence. Politics aside. It's probably the best example or a damn good one on charisma and what an Alpha looks and acts like in this type of situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A Intellect of highest order. Bookish-voracious reader. Introspective. Alpha.

I could go on and on and many may come back and point out which (or all) of the above guys they hate (or all) , and why, and etc.. - but that's not the point. I am merely trying to point out males who do not conform to the overtly masculine type. And I cover the full and very wide spectrum of personality and physical/personality types from Colin to Che.

Conclusion - All of the above would be very comfortable on this forum - not a doubt in my mind. And they all are cover the top three intelligence, humour and nice eyes!

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Christopher Hitchens would qualify as Alpha. I was thinking of guys who qualify as Alpha, but do not conform to the jock or physically tough guy.

Colin Firth qualifies, again brainy, cultured, and not conforming to John Wayne type. Alpha, and that is with or even without fame.

Marlon Brando, although externally athletic, was intellectual. He is a stretch and not a great choice, but could easily fit in on this forum.

Russell Brand. Controversial, and perhaps disliked by a big block of both men and women. Definitely not in the dumb jock camp but complex etc. qualifies as Alpha with or without fame.

Che Guevara. Watch this video(first bit is silent with his plane landing, then audio kicks in), Che is talking politics, but if you watch how he 'carries himself', his eye contact, his presentation, Humour and Intelligence. Politics aside. It's probably the best example or a damn good one on charisma and what an Alpha looks and acts like in this type of situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A Alpha. Intellect of highest order. Bookish. Alpha.

I could go on and on and many may come back and point out which (or all) of the above guys they hate (or all) , and why, and etc.. - but that's not the point. I am merely trying to point out males who do not conform to the overtly masculine type. And I cover the full and very wide spectrum of personality and physical/personality types from Colin to Che.

Conclusion - All of the above would be very comfortable on this forum - not a doubt in my mind. And they all are cover the top three intelligence, humour and nice eyes!

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I agree with everything you say. In fact one could just look at royalty to see examples of men who fulfill the alpha role without being crude about it. Look at Prince William. He is uber-alpha but he's not a cave man/thug.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

We do not go out with the alpha-males. Deal with it.

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I think that "alpha male" is a stupid term (this isn't 50,000 BC, nor are we packs of dogs), but if the characteristics that describe an "alpha male" include strength of character, that's what I like.

It is a really stupid term though. You mean people are attracted to those who look good and aren't neurotic?!? Gasp, shock, and awe! We'd better find an evolutionary explination for such an otherwise unexplainable trend!

To account for the term itself, I think there's a strong element of romanticism it. It stirs images of primal society which is fun I guess, modern society is pretty dull. There's also the dissociation factor. If you can explain something in scientific terms, you can make human interaction like a mechanical system with parts and processes to be identified, which detatches you from the whole equation. Part A is Female, Part B is Alpha, Part C is Beta, and the parts interact like so, it's all so simple.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

Anyways, maybe you don't date alpha males, but you can't speak for all women, not matter how highly you value your own thoughts and opinions.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

You're perfectly right Mutatis and I guess men simply cannot speak for all women's preferences either.

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Exactly, you guys get it. I hate it when I'm included in this big conglomerate of other people with whom all I have in common is my gender, like all women are part of a gigantic hive-mind. I value my sense of self, and stereotypes strip you of that. You're nothing, you're a "woman" and that's all of your identity. It's like a cage.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

I think that "alpha male" is a stupid term (this isn't 50,000 BC, nor are we packs of dogs), but if the characteristics that describe an "alpha male" include strength of character, that's what I like.

It is a really stupid term though. You mean people are attracted to those who look good and aren't neurotic?!? Gasp, shock, and awe! We'd better find an evolutionary explination for such an otherwise unexplainable trend!
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EXACTLY. That's all I was trying to say in my last long post. Putting aside the inanity of the term "alpha male" (and I will use it since there's no better term I can think of, except I'll shorten it to just "alpha"), why wouldn't a woman want to date one labeled as such? Like I said, I was pretty much *****ing because, aside from intelligence, I fit no "alpha male" category. I don't have much money, I'm meek, and hell, I'm disabled, the latter of which is the complete antithesis of alpha-ness in any species.

Which is why I find a woman saying "I don't date alpha-males" funny. It'd be dumb not to. Does it mean one will marry an alpha? Of course not. A guy can be wealthy, intelligent, charismatic, and an a-hole all at the same time. This whole conversation began by asking what traits someone found initially attractive, i.e., what do you look for in a mate--if you're not looking for alpha qualities when you're doing that first inspection, well, I think you're being dumb. And since I can hear someone ask me, "Well, if that's true, how do non-alphas find mates?" I'd answer that there're a ton of ways relationships get started besides people looking to meet someone in a bar.

Fair enough, we can all easily drop the word Alpha, and replace it with "Men who generally attract a relatively high percentage of women ("Attractive Men"). It fits perfectly with the title of the thread. Done.

Again, Che Guevara's video is the best example of how an Attractive Man presents himself, makes Eye Contact, speaks, uses humour, body language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A

I am happy to hear the girls view? Juniper, Py, Helga, Cacian, Juniper, Scheherazade, Pensive, Babyguile?- would Che not be seen as generally attractive to a high percentage of females, who may or may not include yourself? As I hope I am better explaining what many, but not all women would describe as an attractive man

Why does it matter to you if this man or that particular man is found attractive by any of us? Why? This is an exercise in stereotpying. If Juniper or caican say they would fall at the feet of Che Guavera because they find him simply irresistable what would that prove? I'll find three women who aren't attracted to him.

Why come into a thread that was not made for you and berate female opinion? To discuss the bull**** concept of 'alpha males' is to partake in an exercise of stereotyping vast swathes of women. It is a concept I've never heard any female articulate and, coupled with the varied tastes in men that they evidently have, I think any further mention of 'alpha males' should be swiftly followed by a three month isolation in the Cold Ale Bloke's Thread.

Maybe we should have gender apartheid on this section of the forum then all the boys can use themselves to stroke their own egos like they usually do.

http://s16.postimage.org/cewfhazfp/arguecat.png

^ Because it is absolutely fascinating. It's about Le Difference, a subject that engages us all.

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Christopher Hitchens would qualify as Alpha. I was thinking of guys who qualify as Alpha, but do not conform to the jock or physically tough guy.

Colin Firth qualifies, again brainy, cultured, and not conforming to John Wayne type. Alpha, and that is with or even without fame.

Marlon Brando, although externally athletic, was intellectual. He is a stretch and not a great choice, but could easily fit in on this forum.

Russell Brand. Controversial, and perhaps disliked by a big block of both men and women. Definitely not in the dumb jock camp but complex etc. qualifies as Alpha with or without fame.

Che Guevara. Watch this video(first bit is silent with his plane landing, then audio kicks in), Che is talking politics, but if you watch how he 'carries himself', his eye contact, his presentation, Humour and Intelligence. Politics aside. It's probably the best example or a damn good one on charisma and what an Alpha looks and acts like in this type of situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A Intellect of highest order. Bookish-voracious reader. Introspective. Alpha.

I could go on and on and many may come back and point out which (or all) of the above guys they hate (or all) , and why, and etc.. - but that's not the point. I am merely trying to point out males who do not conform to the overtly masculine type. And I cover the full and very wide spectrum of personality and physical/personality types from Colin to Che.

Conclusion - All of the above would be very comfortable on this forum - not a doubt in my mind. And they all are cover the top three intelligence, humour and nice eyes!

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Very finely put. Im surprised so many women don't know what an alpha male is and beta male is. In my mind however the epitome of the Alpha male is this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine...uis_de_Lasalle


Also I think it is wrong to define an alpha male primarily by the fact that woman are attracted to him; as that is a by product of something else which is, charisma is too weak, so let me call it an aura, which has an effect upon all men around him. Merely being around this man changed the men and women around him, for better or worse. Sometimes everyone around him is filled with fear and substance other-times it is courage and virtue.

I always think of Odysseus as the proto Alpha. Not Homer's Odysseus but rather Dante's - where that intangible aura around him shows that the only thing more infectious than fear is true courage, and he has men who are willing to follow him to the end of the earth, not because he convinces them or because they simply trust him; but he is able to imbue in them the same passions which stir his heart and make every man around him into a god. Simply due to that intangible presence, like the stars in the night sky.

Of course Odysseus would be representative of the harmonious and virtuous alpha, there are many types as I have said before. The antithesis to Odysseus's Virtuous Alpha would be Milton's Satan, who possesses the same Alpha type as had Alexander The Great, to wit; the megalomaniac alpha. One need merle look at the similar results of the two's exploits and their effect on the men/angels around them at the beginning and at the end.

I have only talked of Male alpha's but in female society there is equally and alpha element. Amongst men it is more pronounced as men have more of a natural instinct for hierarchy, but simply because female alpha's are not as overt as male alpha's, do not think that there are none. They are there and every guy will know which girl is the alpha. Some famous Alphas from history here would be Cleopatra, or Queen Elizabeth I

In short an Alpha is the type of person whom once you meet, you never forget, because unlike everyone else, they do not deserve to be forgotten.

That is a very romantic view of history is it not? It says he snook behind enemy lines to sleep with an Austrian noblewoman. Is that supposed to be admirable?

No single man acts alone. Sure you can have people with good leadership and in those times, if you claimed a higher purpose, men would follow you absolutely (for a time), and men would follow men who followed you. Think of Joan of Arc.

Odysseus is fictional and romanticised. I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

^ Because it is absolutely fascinating. It's about Le Difference, a subject that engages us all.

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Do you mean LA Difference?

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Fair enough, we can all easily drop the word Alpha, and replace it with "Men who generally attract a relatively high percentage of women ("Attractive Men"). It fits perfectly with the title of the thread. Done.

Again, Che Guevara's video is the best example of how an Attractive Man presents himself, makes Eye Contact, speaks, uses humour, body language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A

I am happy to hear the girls view? Juniper, Py, Helga, Cacian, Juniper, Scheherazade, Pensive, Babyguile?- would Che not be seen as generally attractive to a high percentage of females, who may or may not include yourself? As I hope I am better explaining what many, but not all women would describe as an attractive man

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Hi tonywalt just the name Che Guevara gives me the creeps sorry. Not my idea of attractive at all. NO
To be honest I never what's attractive until I see one. I now know attractive which for is mix of looks charms humour personality attitude and general feeling/aura niceness generosity and cooleness of the person.
I have never had a type in my head and I never relate to pictures or images or TV looks. I find them too fake almost plastic and so I am lucky I do not have crushes on people that removed from my immediat reality so I have to say I never understand people who have crushes or fancy people off a magasine or television .
An example of what I mean is Beiber fever what this is all about is beyond my logic. I do not understand it and it scares me to think that people can relate to fake.
An attractive man is beyond descriptions and words one has to live it and feel it and it gets better everyday every minute you are with them and that is attractiveness for me.

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That is a very romantic view of history is it not? It says he snook behind enemy lines to sleep with an Austrian noblewoman. Is that supposed to be admirable?

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Congratulations, you read the first paragraph. There is much more though. He is arguably one of the bravest men in history.

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No single man acts alone. Sure you can have people with good leadership and in those times, if you claimed a higher purpose, men would follow you absolutely (for a time), and men would follow men who followed you. Think of Joan of Arc.

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There is a difference between following you, and willing to die for you.

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Odysseus is fictional and romanticised. I don't get it.

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So something possesses no didactical value unless it is real?

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Originally Posted by cacian

Do you mean LA Difference?

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I think he means, la différence, but we shouldn't be too pedantic. :D

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

I think he means, la différence, but we shouldn't be too pedantic. :D

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True true although very temptively that LA looks very much like Los Angeles but that's beside the point just felt like saying it.:)

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

Congratulations, you read the first paragraph. There is much more though. He is arguably one of the bravest men in history.

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I don't think I've ever read a Wikipedia article from head-to-toe and I'd like to keep it that way. Also, I'm not the kind of person who trawls through the annals of history in order to find a hero I can look up to.

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There is a difference between following you, and willing to die for you. So something possesses no didactical value unless it is real?

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Didactical value? I'm asking you to prove to me that alpha males exist. Nobody would die for Colin Firth. Also it's utterly laughable that you used Odysseus as an example. What frame of mind where you in when you read about Odysseus from Dante and Homer? For example did you read The Odyssey because you had finished Lord of the Rings and wanted a good sword and sorcery tale to see you off to bed? :goof: If you want to know what the true function of Greek mythology was, and what the didactical motives of tales of Odysseus, Medea, Agamemnon, Heracles etc. were then read Women in Athenian Law and Life by Roger Just.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

Which is why I find a woman saying "I don't date alpha-males" funny. It'd be dumb not to. Does it mean one will marry an alpha? Of course not. A guy can be wealthy, intelligent, charismatic, and an a-hole all at the same time. This whole conversation began by asking what traits someone found initially attractive, i.e., what do you look for in a mate--if you're not looking for alpha qualities when you're doing that first inspection, well, I think you're being dumb. And since I can hear someone ask me, "Well, if that's true, how do non-alphas find mates?" I'd answer that there're a ton of ways relationships get started besides people looking to meet someone in a bar.

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Hello????? How was that conclusion gotten to? At what point did any woman on here say "I don't date alpha males"? This thread is about what we are attracted too at first. What is absolutely perplexing, and what has started this crapstorm is that guys on this site have the audacity to tell me (and the rest of us) I'm wrong and that we are lying about what we find attractive.

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

Again, Che Guevara's video is the best example of how an Attractive Man presents himself, makes Eye Contact, speaks, uses humour, body language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A

I am happy to hear the girls view? Juniper, Py, Helga, Cacian, Juniper, Scheherazade, Pensive, Babyguile?- would Che not be seen as generally attractive to a high percentage of females, who may or may not include yourself? As I hope I am better explaining what many, but not all women would describe as an attractive man

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Seriously? Che? Couldn't find anybody in this century?

Che is a cultural icon because of a picture, admitedly at first glance it's a cool picture but in all seriousness it says nothing about the man himself. Which is kinda been the point the last few pages. Yes there may be an initial attraction, but that isn't the end of it. You can't make a life on initial attraction. At first glance that's a cool picture but once you find out the actual living breathing man that picture isn't so cool anymore.

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Originally Posted by Babyguile

Why does it matter to you if this man or that particular man is found attractive by any of us? Why? This is an exercise in stereotpying. If Juniper or caican say they would fall at the feet of Che Guavera because they find him simply irresistable what would that prove? I'll find three women who aren't attracted to him.

Why come into a thread that was not made for you and berate female opinion? To discuss the bull**** concept of 'alpha males' is to partake in an exercise of stereotyping vast swathes of women. It is a concept I've never heard any female articulate and, coupled with the varied tastes in men that they evidently have, I think any further mention of 'alpha males' should be swiftly followed by a three month isolation in the Cold Ale Bloke's Thread.

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Perplexing isn't?

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I don't think I've ever read a Wikipedia article from head-to-toe and I'd like to keep it that way. Also, I'm not the kind of person who trawls through the annals of history in order to find a hero I can look up to.

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1) We get it you don't like me.
2) I do spend various hours everyday reading pages from head -to-toe of wikipedia, and I fail to see what is wrong with that.
3)Hero to worship? Do you not understand history? When I look back at various historical figures and examine their lives it is not in pursuit of a hero to worship, as if they were some 21st century Justin Beibers, I find men who lead inspirational lives and remind one about the true potential of a human life. If anything it is a motivator, everyday because I know of these men I am pushed to not settle for mere existence but to go beyond the norm. With what dignity can I say I am tired or in pain when I exercise, when I recall to mind that Roosevelt got shot and before going to the hospital finished his speech. When anger takes hold of me and I would strike another, I remember the Marcus Aurelieus and Gahndi and how they tamed their harmfull passions. When I read of DeLassale who said that any hussar which lived past the age of 30 was a coward, or when he would as a general lead the charge with a pipe rather than a sword in his hand, how can I bring myself to fear death when I see in history so many men who isntead of falling to their knees smilled back at death like equalls. Great men of the past serve to remind us that though we are but the sustenance of worms, we posses the potential of the Gods.

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Didactical value? I'm asking you to prove to me that alpha males exist.

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Prove to you that alpha males exist? Now it all makes sense. First how you did not wish to specify your gender to Mutatis, and now this strange behavior of yours, it all makes sense, you are an alien sent to study the human race are you not? Ha! J'acsuse !

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Nobody would die for Colin Firth.

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I think it would have to do with him being an actor, and not a general or political rebel leader like Che Guevera. Nobody would have died for einstein either. That does not mean he was worthless, it means he was a scientist. Oh silly alien, how your deception falls when it becomes so apparent that you know so little of mankind.

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Also it's utterly laughable that you used Odysseus as an example. What frame of mind where you in when you read about Odysseus from Dante and Homer? For example did you read The Odyssey because you had finished Lord of the Rings and wanted a good sword and sorcery tale to see you off to bed? :goof:

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I actually got into Greek literature because the homo-erotic aspects of it made my little richard tingle and feel nice.

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If you want to know what the true function of Greek mythology was, and what the didactical motives of tales of Odysseus, Medea, Agamemnon, Heracles etc. were then read Women in Athenian Law and Life by Roger Just.

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Silly Alien, thinking that behind human religion and art there is function....silly alien, all art is useless.

History is not about reading buffed-up, heroicised Wikipedia articles about war generals but is in fact about identifying trends through time and theorizing over how one system leads to another. Did you forget, in your forays into the lives of these 'alpha males', that war is a vile thing? Be honest with yourself. If you study your history by looking only at the upper echelons of the society you miss the essence of those times. Your version of history is one that ignores the masses of peasant and laborour.

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Hero to worship? Do you not understand history? When I look back at various historical figures and examine their lives it is not in pursuit of a hero to worship, as if they were some 21st century Justin Beibers, I find men who lead inspirational lives and remind one about the true potential of a human life. If anything it is a motivator, everyday because I know of these men I am pushed to not settle for mere existence but to go beyond the norm. With what dignity can I say I am tired or in pain when I exercise, when I recall to mind that Roosevelt got shot and before going to the hospital finished his speech. When anger takes hold of me and I would strike another, I remember the Marcus Aurelieus and Gahndi and how they tamed their harmfull passions. When I read of DeLassale who said that any hussar which lived past the age of 30 was a coward, or when he would as a general lead the charge with a pipe rather than a sword in his hand, how can I bring myself to fear death when I see in history so many men who isntead of falling to their knees smilled back at death like equalls. Great men of the past serve to remind us that though we are but the sustenance of worms, we posses the potential of the Gods.

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Well, go on, repel that worm! I wish you every success in fulfilling your potential to be an alpha God and putting us all to shame for not fulfilling our own potentials. Keep reading your Wikipedia articles and one day you will become great like your idols!

http://s16.postimage.org/t3cbq64f9/e...he_world_w.jpg
http://s8.postimage.org/k1iy0cqz9/ga..._sonic_her.jpg

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Originally Posted by Babyguile

Why does it matter to you if this man or that particular man is found attractive by any of us? Why? This is an exercise in stereotpying. If Juniper or caican say they would fall at the feet of Che Guavera because they find him simply irresistable what would that prove? I'll find three women who aren't attracted to him.

Why come into a thread that was not made for you and berate female opinion? To discuss the bull**** concept of 'alpha males' is to partake in an exercise of stereotyping vast swathes of women. It is a concept I've never heard any female articulate and, coupled with the varied tastes in men that they evidently have, I think any further mention of 'alpha males' should be swiftly followed by a three month isolation in the Cold Ale Bloke's Thread.

Maybe we should have gender apartheid on this section of the forum then all the boys can use themselves to stroke their own egos like they usually do.

http://s16.postimage.org/cewfhazfp/arguecat.png

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Yeah, no stereotyping going on against men in this post.

And I think this is all quite weird for a guy to say. Maybe you're an ultra-feminist?

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Hello????? How was that conclusion gotten to? At what point did any woman on here say "I don't date alpha males"? This thread is about what we are attracted too at first. What is absolutely perplexing, and what has started this crapstorm is that guys on this site have the audacity to tell me (and the rest of us) I'm wrong and that we are lying about what we find attractive.

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Uhhhh, how about right here?

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

You're wrong, MM. We do not go out with the alpha-males. Deal with it.

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I've made my points explicitly clear, even explained where I was coming from with my first "women hating" posts. I discussed how some of us may have been confused about how some were thinking initial attractiveness may only mean physical traits or personality traits. The idea that men shouldn't be allowed to make comments in here is simply stupid, especially since women have posted in the male counterpart to this thread, which no one seems to have a problem with. You're the one now being quite rude, but you're a mod, so I guess it's okay.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Hello????? How was that conclusion gotten to? At what point did any woman on here say "I don't date alpha males"? This thread is about what we are attracted too at first. What is absolutely perplexing, and what has started this crapstorm is that guys on this site have the audacity to tell me (and the rest of us) I'm wrong and that we are lying about what we find attractive.




Seriously? Che? Couldn't find anybody in this century?

Che is a cultural icon because of a picture, admitedly at first glance it's a cool picture but in all seriousness it says nothing about the man himself. Which is kinda been the point the last few pages. Yes there may be an initial attraction, but that isn't the end of it. You can't make a life on initial attraction. At first glance that's a cool picture but once you find out the actual living breathing man that picture isn't so cool anymore.



Perplexing isn't?

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'

It's easy PY. We are talking about Attraction not what is necessary to sustain a relationship. It's two entirely different things. What may initially attract me to someone is not the attributes that will sustain the relationship.

That's why people date for weeks/months and then it doesn't work out. Or other times the Attraction was not that strong, but the attributes to sustain a relationship was strong- a long term relationship.

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Originally Posted by tonywalt

'

It's easy PY. We are talking about Attraction not what is necessary to sustain a relationship. It's two entirely different things. What may initially attract me to someone is not the attributes that will sustain the relationship.

That's why people date for weeks/months and then it doesn't work out. Or other times the Attraction was not that strong, but the attributes to sustain a relationship was strong- a long term relationship.

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uh yeah, so why do you guys keep trying to tell us we are wrong when we give our opinion as to what we find attractive at first? That has been the point of contention from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

Uhhhh, how about right here?

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Let's look at the full context:

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Does it occur to you guys that women might have noticed that humanity has ventured out of caves for while now and that how Alpha male is viewed has changed?

There is little need for 'hunters' and intelligence helps more in the way of survival these days.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
So looks don't matter at all, huh? You're above all that? Sure, Scher, sure you are.

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You're wrong, MM. We do not go out with the alpha-males. Deal with it.

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I've made my points explicitly clear, even explained where I was coming from with my first "women hating" posts. I discussed how some of us may have been confused about how some were thinking initial attractiveness may only mean physical traits or personality traits. The idea that men shouldn't be allowed to make comments in here is simply stupid, especially since women have posted in the male counterpart to this thread, which no one seems to have a problem with. You're the one now being quite rude, but you're a mod, so I guess it's okay.

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Rude? Can you quote me please?

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Originally Posted by papayahed

uh yeah, so why do you guys keep trying to tell us we are wrong when we give our opinion as to what we find attractive at first? That has been the point of contention from the beginning.

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I think you are right. I just say there is a certain Logic and Science to Attraction, and it's not purely Emotional reasons.

In the process of doing that I completed the sin of applying a logic and science to attraction - and I should know better.:nonod:

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Let's look at the full context:











Rude? Can you quote me please?

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Maybe you can explain how the context changes the fact that Scher said "We do not go out with alpha-males." You said no one said that. I showed that they did. Where's the context that nullifies that?

And, no, I'm not quoting or explaining anything in that regard. I'd rather not be baited into banishment, thanks.

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History is not about reading buffed-up, heroicised Wikipedia articles about war generals but is in fact about identifying trends through time and theorizing over how one system leads to another.

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Have I ever stated otherwise? Unless Gahndi was a warlord, I am not sure where you are going with this.

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Did you forget, in your forays into the lives of these 'alpha males', that war is a vile thing?

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Have your forgotten that the only reason you have a computer, and the internet, and are not illiterate has a lot to do with all the wars of Europe's past. Look at India and Africa, the average European has all the advantages over the average Indian or African not because our nations were smarter but because our nations were stronger. Yes war is ugly, but that ugliness and the deaths of thousands before us is the only reason you

1)have the technology and education to post on this board
2) have the right of free speech to say what you think
3) (if you are a woman) Have any rights at all (Nazis took away all political rights from women)


In Italy after the end of the war, everything to do with Fascism and Mussolini was seen as wrong and having nothing to do with Italy. The prevalent thought became that the war was fascisms war not Italy's. In Kefallonia 5000 Italians were executed by the Germans because, rather than acting like the cowards we Italians are, they choose to do their duty and serve their country. The bravery and sacrifice of these men is better know in America than Italy. In fact up until recently, the Italian government would not even acknowledge that these men were executed by the germans. Why does my nation choose to abandon the only men who did their duty and showed courage? Because we lost the war, so everything to do with the war was evil, the loyalty and bravery of these men was not loyalty and bravery because we lost the war. And it is for reasons like these that I detest my country at times, because zealotry is zealotry. Acknowledge that war is vile, yes - abandon the boys (because wars are fought by boys not men) and pretend that they never existed and that their death had nothing to do with their country, it is base. Yes war is vile, so vile that in europe and America poverty is linked to obesity while in the rest of the world it is linked to starvation - Are we not lucky we had all those wars.

You sound like the grandson of a very wealthy businesses who states that work is demeaning, completely ignoring that the wealth he has which allows him not to work was made by his poor grandfather who worked all his life.

Acknowledge that war is vile, yes. Ignore the bravery of ones countrymen who did their duty and showed courage, that is even viler. Ignore that fact that we all enjoy wealthy lives because of the wars we vilify, that is just stupid.

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Be honest with yourself. If you study your history by looking only at the upper echelons of the society you miss the essence of those times. Your version of history is one that ignores the masses of peasant and laborour.

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Have I ever stated that I ignore the masses when it comes to history? You are inventing things at this point. Besides you seem to imply that the upper echelons of society were something utterly distinct from the masses, how old are you? That is like the thought of a teenage which has yet to see the world. When I look at the genealogical tree of my family one fifth of the men died in war. Do you think war is something which involved the lords siting back whilst they sent the peasants to die? In wwI the lie tenants had almost double the mortality rate that the privates.

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Keep reading your Wikipedia articles and one day you will become great like your idols!

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Did you seriously just demonify education?



Look I don't like arguing with you very much, because it feels like an argument I had with an ex-girl friend of mine long ago. Were when she asked me what I thought of her friends, I said they were all nice and mentioned that one of them was very pretty, and from that she accused me of plotting to **** all her friends and betray her. At the time Failed to see the logical gap between "Claudia is very pretty" and "I will **** all of your friends", just as now I fail to see the logical gap between what I said before and what you think I said before.


Also I am not saying all or even most women makes these huge leaps devoid sense; just the crazy bat**** ones.

Hold on a second...

You have accused me of jumping to conclusions, inventing things and assuming what was meant by your words. Then you proceed to do the same.

All I said on the issue of war was that it was vile, which it is, since it is killing another person. Yet you assumed I was doing the following things:

- abandoning the legacy of tragic soldiers
- pretending that the soldiers never existed (...eh?)
- denying that they died for the cause of their country
- denying their bravery and courage

You have assumed the following:

- I live in wealth
- I have a rich grandfather and had a hard-working great grandfather
- peasants and laborours are synonymous with soldiers
- I am a woman
- I am a man

The joys of argiung over the internet. I admit that I jumped to conclusions but you have to when debating on an internet forum since it's more two-dimensional than having a conversation face-to-face; but two wrongs don't make a right, and you seemed oblivious that you were committing the same crime as you gleefully shoved your own interpretations of history down my gagging throat.

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Originally Posted by Babyguile

Hold on a second...

You have accused me of jumping to conclusions, inventing things and assuming what was meant by your words. Then you proceed to do the same.

All I said on the issue of war was that it was vile, which it is, since it is killing another person. Yet you assumed I was doing the following things:

- abandoning the legacy of tragic soldiers
- pretending that the soldiers never existed (...eh?)
- denying that they died for the cause of their country
- denying their bravery and courage

You have assumed the following:

- I live in wealth
- I have a rich grandfather and had a hard-working great grandfather
- peasants and laborours are synonymous with soldiers
- I am a woman
- I am a man

The joys of argiung over the internet. I admit that I jumped to conclusions but you have to when debating on an internet forum since it's more two-dimensional than having a conversation face-to-face; but two wrongs don't make a right, and you seemed oblivious that you were committing the same crime as you gleefully shoved your own interpretations of history down my gagging throat.

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3...8lm7o1_500.png

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F i n a l____W a r n i n g

Posts that are off-topic and/or contain personal comments will be removed without further notice.

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I was on the underground today and there was a woman of about thirty sitting opposite with a paper store bag with name Hollister and what might pass for an Alpha male. This is it:


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...tercloseup.jpg

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

I was on the underground today and there was a woman of about thirty sitting opposite with a paper store bag with name Hollister and what might pass for an Alpha male. This is it:


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...tercloseup.jpg

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no Emil, that is a handsome guy, Tony explained what an Alpha male was before quite well, I am surprised you are just as ignorant about Alpha males as others, it might be a generational linguistic gap.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

I was on the underground today and there was a woman of about thirty sitting opposite with a paper store bag with name Hollister and what might pass for an Alpha male. This is it:


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...tercloseup.jpg

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Humm I am not sure he has a very effeminate look about him me think. It is the pretty face that did it for me.

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Originally Posted by cacian

Humm I am not sure he has a very effeminate look about him me think. It is the pretty face that did it for me.

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Well he may well be one of the many homosexuals that make up the male model fraternity.