Dark Muse, seriously, I woud love to follow the thread, but right it is impossible, so what have been said so sar about CHesterton?
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Dark Muse, seriously, I woud love to follow the thread, but right it is impossible, so what have been said so sar about CHesterton?
Yes, you make a good point, in how so completely opposite these two figures are from each other, which does play with Poe's concepts regarding the double which he is found of bringing out in his stories.Quote:
Originally Posted by weltanschauung
This mysterious unknown figure who seems to have something almost grotesque about him, represents perhaps the other part of the narrator, the dark side of the conscious you might say, the thing lurking inside of him, that he can never really know. As Poe calls it the "imp of the perverse" that all of us have.
Yes it is interesting the way in which you never really learn anything at all about this man in the crowd, as he is followed through the streets, nothing about him is ever really revealed, but perhaps something about the narrator does come to be revealed in this adventure.Quote:
Originally Posted by weltanschauung
Yes I agree that the narrator is the man of the crowdQuote:
Originally Posted by weltanschauung
I love Poe! Just recently finished an essay on Psychoanalysis of "William Wilson." Sadly, I have not read "The Man of the Crowd" yet, but I plan to read this sometime tomorrow. Thereafter, I will revisit this thread and post my thoughts! Thanks for bringing this one to my attention. I look forward to reading through everyone's thoughts when I finish!
I hope you enjoy the story and look forward to hearing your thoughts upon it once you have read it. Thank you for dropping by here. Glad to have you.
What is the next story? You chose very good stories for the thread.
Hey, this thread has been been dormant but if there is renwed interest I can begin to consider a new story.Quote:
Originally Posted by LC_Lancer
If you pick something under twenty-five pages, I'll definitely give it a read. Something like Gordon Pym, though, might be beyond me at this point.
Most of Poe's stories are less than 25 pages. I do have one in mind, and though off the top of my head I do not know ezaztly how many pages it is, I don't belive it is really all that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I just checked and the story in mind is only 10 pages. I will post an offical introduction at the first of next month.
Sounds good. Which story are you set on?
The Premature Burial
Ha, I can't think of a more Poe-esque subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Hehe indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I'm pretty sure this is not a Poe story. It sounds like An Incident at Owl Creek Bridge by Ambrose Bierce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhar
Because of renewed interest in this thread I have decided to begin another story for discussion.
The story that will be up for discussion is:
The Premature Burial
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fna...rtz_burial.jpg
Though this story is considered to be one of his stories of Mystery and Horror it can just as easily be considered to be one of his works of Humor and Satire. It is a story which deals with one of Poe's greatest fears, and a fear that is a reoccurring theme throughout many of his works, in addition to being a real genuine fear for the time period in which he was writing.
That is of course the fear of being buried alive. In a time which lacked the medical understanding and technology we have today it was in fact frightfully common for people to be buried alive and mistaken for dead. There have been coffins found with scratch marks on the inside lid where its occupants have tried to escape.
Though in "The Premature Burial," Poe has a little fun with this fear, and in fact does mock himself. In some ways the story can be seen as a parody of his terror gripping tales.
One of the interesting things about the story is the way in which he helps set up both the mood of the story and the stories narrator by beginning the story with a series of accounts of actual premature burials that were known to have occurred.
Online Text: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blpremburial1.htm
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-st...PremBuri.shtml
http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/wor...866&pageno=111
(There is no difference in the texts, they just provide different formants so readers can choose whichever is easier for them to read)
Enjoy the story and you may begin discussion at anytime. Once I have had the chance to re-read the story I myself will begin posting comments upon the story and different parts of the text.
But we need not follow a specific order if there is something on your mind that you really want to get out there.
Just post warnings if you do want to bring up something that happens later on in the story.
Good story, DM. I'll probably post a response tonight when I get back from visiting friends.
I am glad you enjoyed it, and I look forward to your comments. I haven't yet had the chance to read it again but hopefully I will be able to do so soon.
Yeah, when a piece of fiction begins by explaining that its subject is "too entirely horrible for the purposes of legitimate fiction" one knows something is afoot. The paradox here is a wink to the reader. We start the story knowing that the conclusion cannot be anything satisfying because the work is fictional. Instead of the "severity and majesty of truth," we're probably going to get something a little less divine and a little more absurd. Really, what could be more absurd than the tomb he designs for himself? The thing has more amenities than George Costanza's handicap bathroom. Doesn't he even have food in there? It's a little over-the-top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Poe seems to be going for something similar to Ann Radcliffe's The Italian: an anti-gothic, gothic novel. "The Premature Burial" is a bit of an ant-horror, horror story. Unlike Radcliffe's novel, though, which challenges whether the entire gothic, imaginary world has any substance and truth, Poe seems to leave the door open on horror in general. The true "direct testimony" that he records in the beginning of the story is never actually refuted. It stays unchallenged, and reminds readers that horror does exist. It just can't be fictionalized. Radcliffe undercuts the veracity of imagination and the gothic, but Poe's story reinforces it--in an odd way. Poe's attack on fictionalized horror reasserts horror's presence in actual, lived experience. The three instances of "direct testimony" do more than just lull the reader into thinking that narrator's story will be more "direct testimony." The three mini-stories at the start of the text show the very real presence of horror, and they never get overturned as the narrator's story eventually is. At least, that's one way of reading it. You could argue that the ending of the narrator's story rewrites the early stories to have similarly anti-climatic endings. The narrator's story could be a commentary on the previous "direct testimony." I think that's a weaker reading, though. It seems more likely that the story maintains the presence of horror in real life. The last paragraph, especially, seems to make that the case.
That's how I read the satire of the story, but I could be wrong. This is the first time I've read the tale. I'm new to Poe.
You make some very good insights here. And I really enjoy your thoughts on the idea of the story being an "anti-horror" story. I do think there is a lot of truth in this. It is very much a parody of Poe's other stories where he treats the subject of being buried alive in a much more dramatic way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I tend to agree that I do think that testimony presented at the start of the story is there to remind the reader of the very real presence of the fear. I tend to agree that I do not think think the ending of the fictional story, is intended to also undermine the endings to the previous testimonies or to subtract for the presence legitimacy of the looming fear.
I think the testimonies are meant to stand as they are, and Poe than precedes to have a little bit of fun with this fear. Perhaps it was a way of sort of facing the fear.
With all the extremes that the narrator does go through to prepare for just such an episode of the possibility of being buried alive, I think this does alert the reader that there is something afoot.
And for those that are familiar with Poe's work, the reader would not expect that he would so blatantly spell out the story in the begining, and with the very presences of those testimony's provided, lends to the fact that the narrators own story cannot just be another buried alive story, though I do not think one can ever be completely prepared for the end that is too come.
It would be interesting to read one of those stories after this one--to see how they stack up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Yet, it's odd that the "direct testimony" points to the fear and horror in actual life when within the narrator's story real life is reassuring and it's fiction which makes him fearful. "The Premature Burial" inverts itself during the narrator's story. In the first few paragraphs, we're told that real life is horrid and scary, but fiction should steer away from horror. In the narrator's story that's turned upside down. The stories he reads spook him, and real life is reassuring. I suppose we're supposed to read the narrator's story as a perversion of way things should be. After all, it is a satire on him. But it's still odd that his memories and the real events of his life should be reassuring to him. Those should be what scares him if we interpret the "direct testimony" to mean that real life has terrors. The "direct testimony" proves that there are live burials in real life--as well as plagues and earthquakes. What do we make of his jubilant mood on the boat, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
And you're probably right that that's all it does. I don't think it gives the ending away. Of course, I don't even think the ending gives the ending away. I'm still not sure I entirely understand what we're supposed to make of what happens on the boat. Why does being in the boat cure him? Is his optimistic mood on the boat the correct attitude? If fiction can't examine the horrific, why does Poe write so much about it? The text runs out before many of its questions can be answered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
You pose some interesting thoughts and questions of which I will come back to and answer in detail once I have refreshed myself on the intericate details of the story, and the actual langauge Poe uses. I will try to get the story read tomorrow.
I don't even know if those questions have answers. No need to rush, though. I'm probably going to be gone most of tomorrow again. When I get back, I'll PM some people and see if I can't scare you up some more posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
No they may not, but it will be fun to examine them and that would be cool!Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I reread the story this morning, DM, and I think I see more of what you we're talking about. The story does seem to be a way of dispelling Poe's own fears, and that can help us explain why he reproduces so many actual accounts. These are probably the things Poe himself was coming across. The story may be a way of unburdening himself of those stories that have haunted him. Putting them on paper may have been a way of dispelling pent up anxieties. That would go some way in explaining why he tells us so many different stories when you would think only one would have been enough.
It's interesting to watch both writer and character work through the same fears on different levels. I think it tells you something about the way narrative and character work.
*edit*
I think the ending of the story reflects his actually coming face to face with his ultimate fear, and realizing that he had survived it. The thing that he dreaded most he experienced (or was momentary lead to believe he experienced) and he emerged from it alive, and well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
In a way you can say that it is like the old saying, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. He tormented himself so much with the idea of being buried alive, but in the end he was in fact able to actually conquer the reality of it.
After his experience he acknowledges that it is true that these dangers and fears do exist in real life, but he has the new awareness that one cannot live thier entire life being consumed by the fear, or by the possibility that the worse may happen.
For after all his careful planning and preparation for just such an even of being buried alive, he found himself in a position where it came to nothing. In the movement where he believed he truly had been buried alive, but was denied his precious tomb. This event awakened him to the fact that he cannot control what may happen and even with the preparations he did create, it did nothing to quell is fear, he still lived in daily torment.
I think it was also symbolic of being reborn and given a 2nd chance at life, to actually be able to live for once, as he spent so much of his past life wrapped up in death.
Yeah, that's a good break-down of the boat episode. Generally, I think it's a little hard to believe that someone would forget where they were sleeping and assume they died, but, hey, it's Poe--fantastic, farfetched conclusions are par for the course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Oh, and I tried to rally some posters to the thread, but no one is returning my messages. Bastards. In any case, it's a good story.
haha well I appreciate the effort. Poe does seem to be a tad underappreciated at least around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Yes I can see where it might be a bit hard to believe that a person would wake up forgetting where they were or where they fell asleep, but then I think a lot of people do experience at times feelings of disorientation when waking in a new place, where you have a moment of temporarily forgetting where you are before your brain clicks on again.
It can be seen as an exaggerated version of that, coupled with both the dreams he was having and his fear of death. He awakens a little disoriented, finds himself in a dark place that he does not immediately recognize, and is gripped in panic by his ever present fear.
Discussing literature is underappreciated around here, too. Even when erstwhile popular authors come up for reading, no one shows up. There was a Dante thread not too many moons ago, and everyone supposedly loves The Inferno so much they want to have sex with it. Yet, the discussion lasted maybe thirty posts. Disgusting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Yeah, I agree, and I'm not complaining. It was just a little funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
That is hysterical. I am sorry though I was not around, or otherwise missed that discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
But both the Lawrence and Chekov (sorry if I spelled that wrong) seemed to do well when they were up and running.
We'll have to do another Lawrence or Chek[h]ov (you couldn't google it?) story before the summer is through--if for no other reason, simply to restore my faith in LitNet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Honestly, I confess I was just being too lazy to look it up on google so I just took a guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark