Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
No, Blaze, no. Science is still inchoate and 'swinging in Nature's cradle''!
There are yet no explanations to many many mysteries of the physical and paranatural phenomena! Just look aroud and you will be more than amazed!
Because most, if not all, paranormal claims have been investigated and not one has had any believable evidence whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Even the Parapsychological Association admits that almost all cases of paramormality are false, but that their own results are true, however, upon verification, the PA results themselves have been shown to be wrongly interpreted.
I'm pretty comfortable in claiming that not one single instance of paranormality remains unsolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I am witness to a paranormal scene
Wild healthy and active pigeons loosely held in hand when released were not able to take off for considerable time,,,,some took upto one hour, others more,and some could only flit,,very few could take a straight dive into the sky,,,and the one that was first 'touched' couldn't even move! Instead, his eyes bulged out, red as fire, he trembled and his neck elongated to double its length so I could count every digit of his vertebrae, his feathers fluffed, the shine of his feathers dulled down to a deadly fade! I shoes him, shouted , made noise but nothing would make him budge, He was just dying!
It was horrible. All this happened in the presence of 6 other people in my house! I picked up the dying pigeon and gently placed him in the open so that he could get away. But ot my amazement he just couldnt move! My staff and I stood afar watching as to what happened next but the weird bird won't move from its place! Then suddently a cat then a dog tried to approach him but to our amazement they turned back after taking a few steps ahead and went their way without coming near the bird! The place where the bird 'stood' was an open field ,,,,,,with no other people or noise there! this happened about 12 years ago!
How would my friends here explain this? Atleast i can't figure out what happened to the bird and why the bird could'nt fly,,,why it began to die??:D
seriously? that's your response to "How do you quantify that?". Your response is almost as good as saying "because I said so"?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
1) huh?Quote:
Even the Parapsychological Association admits that almost all cases of paramormality are false, but that their own results are true, however, upon verification, the PA results themselves have been shown to be wrongly interpreted.
I'm pretty comfortable in claiming that not one single instance of paranormality remains unsolved
2) got links?
A ghost threw a hairspray lid at me when I was 12. I was in the bathroom alone. The hairspray lid was on the tub and it hit me on the back. I was standing up which means that the hairspray lid did not FALL from anywhere. If it wasn't a ghost, I don't know what it could have been. It could have been a fast moving alien or something I suppose. Or a strange isolated gust of wind that originated in the bathroom.
No, I was explaining that many genuine researchers have investigated claims of paranormality. I'd hoped people would research it themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
However, links I have, in spades.
I find the best place to start is with the Parapsychological Association.
Then move on to Richard Wiseman, paranormal research and professor at Hertfordshire University in UK.
Another superb reference site is Susan Blackmore, former psychic herself, now a paranormal & psychological researcher and visiting lecturer at Uni of West England.
Then the world's largest and best resource on failures of paranormality, James Randi, http://www.randi.org/ who's spent over half a century debunking frauds and offering huge money challenges to any person able to display a paranormal ability.
This is great - exactly the sort of thing which crops up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalot
There is one potential rational possibility you missed. All aerosol cans have plastic lids which "snap" on. If it isn't put on properly, it can spring off using the kinetic energy stored in the plastic, which is twisted and under pressure. When they flip off, they can travel several metres.
Not likely to be a gust of wind or alien. (Aliens never use the bathroom)
:D
That's a good theory except that it wasn't aerosol. It was Rave super hold in the pump bottle and the lid wasn't on the bottle. it was on the tub. And a curious alien who is observing earthlings might hang out in the john just to see what us humans are up to. It could happen. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
Your links don't really help all that much, it's all pretty vague with tons of links to books or other websites.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I challenge anybody to explain why the pigeon almost died upon touching??Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Why were cat and dog scared and won't come near the dying pigeon?
Why that happened??
I am not sure but I can try that again,,,,with someone haunted!
I chose "I'm open-minded on the subject as to help myself try to ignore The Paranormal, while I do believe in this.
I experience the paranormal on a daily basis, and I don`t know what to call it. It is a long story that i`m not going to bore anyone with it. But I would gladly like to share my over 11 year-old experience of it.
Apart from my experience, I have seen videos of ghosts, and a friend of mine was investigating about lol.. Well so yes, I do believe in the Paranormal.
That's because there have been millions of claims of paranormality/supernatural. You're not going to get a one-page answer to the investigations of claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I guarantee you that if you follow the information contained in those sites and their links, all of your questions will be answered. Those people - even the parapsychology ones - are university funded researchers with worldwide recognition as leaders in the fields of paranormality and human psychology research. (Except for James Randi - he's a magician who's spent his life investigating claims)
Well, I'd be fairly sure there's a rational answer in there. Without seeing the site, products and circumstances, I wouldn't know, but I used the plastic cap as an example because I know that sort of thing has happened in the past. Like pictures "jumping" off walls because something has strecthed over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalot
Anything could happen, it's just how likely it is.
:)
That's the point, what I've seen from those links don't have any hard evidence that would propel me to read further.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
The Richard Wiseman link has two paranormal studies listed. The results I've quoted below :
Hampton Court:
The Vaults:Quote:
Results revealed that:
- people consistently experienced unusual sensations in certain locations
- people who believed in the existence of ghosts reported more experiences than disbelievers
- some of these experiences were caused by natural phenomena, such as subtle draughts and changes in air temperature.
- there was some tentative evidence linking the locations in which participants reported their experiences with certain types of geomagnetic activity.
Then it goes on to say that there are two photos that contained curious anomalies which can't be explained and asking if anybody can help.Quote:
Results revealed that:
- people who believed in ghosts reported more experiences than disbelievers.
- participants consistently reported unusual sensations in the ‘haunted’ vaults.
- there were some correlations between the number of experiences reported in each cell and certain environmental attributes, such as air movement and the visual appearance of the vaults.
If I wanted to convince somebody I'd throw in a few statistics. "Some" is not that quantifiable.
Now if I'm suppossed to be convinced that all paranormal activity has been shown to have logical explanations then perhaps you should leave this link out.
what is your view of magic??Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
If you mean 'me' by ghost/paranormal, sure. But if you mean to go by the usual definition of ghosts/magic and all that stuff, then no, I neither believe nor disbelieve in them.
I already gave you a rational explanation - a ghost was trying to get my attention and threw it at me.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
Can't help wondering why the ghost especially chose a plastic cap to get your attention... There must be a significance to that, surely? Maybe the brand name or maybe the colour? Or even maybe the person the can belongs to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalot
Oh, this is surely case for Scherlock! :D
One of the best forms of entertainment ever! Thank you Harry Houdini, the father of modern magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Just to sidetrack onto magic - which is based on illusion and trickery, no "magic" - it was actually Houdini who got me started on researching paranormality. (No, I'm not that old!) I'd been fascinated by films on Houdini as a kid and read about him, which obviously included his firm belief that the supernatural was a fraud.
Do you ever wonder why professional magicians are so vehemently anti-paranormality?
Harry Houdini, Penn Jillette, James Randi, Chris Angel, Jon Zealando, Banachek; the list just goes on and on. Almost without exception, professional magicians don't just disbelieve the paranormal, they actively challenge it constantly.
Funny how all those people who admit their magic is illusory have such disdain for charlatans.
Like I said, that's the place to start - you'd need to read his books as well. A good one with Wiseman is to Google his name - you'll find links to the meta-analysis Ganzfeld which is where the scientific research is.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I repeat, this is not something that can be explained in five minutes. The James Randi site alone would take months to go through all of the information there. While Randi's no scientist, there are thousands of links to scientific articles.
i still havn't had any reply from the opponents of 'supernatural' on as to the calamity befalling the pigeon on touching! Well, that's no magic, no trick. All was extempore and is substantiated by speaking evidence.
As for professional 'magicians', they are adepts and tricksters.
Remember Disney Show,
The Hand is faster than the Eye!
It surely is!
but herre we are talking about paranormal or unusual experiences witnessed by someone and supported by solid evidence!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Sounds very much like the birds had been poisoned. That would go with the reaction of dogs & cats as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Maybe Shalot's alien/ghost was tired of throwing plastic lids and decided to kill some pigeons?
No. I'm telling you the truth. I, along with 3 other men, rode to the bird market and bought 4 very healthy ,smart and wild pigeons myself. The bird seller lightly tied their feet with jute string and put them in a paper bag so that I could carry them home. Within 15 minutes I reached my house., took out a pigeon and told my wife to hold it so that I could undo the string. I had hardly undid the knot that my wife screamed, ''hey, look what's going on with the pigeon'! My other friends also saw all this happening. I told my wife not to hold the pigeon tightly at which she opened her fist and said, ''I havnt held him tight, look!" Oh, the pigeon lay on her palm unable to move,,just like a dead mouse! Finding this i told my wife to put the pigeon on the ground which she did. To the horror of all present, the pigeon 'puffed' up ist feathers, all shine having gone, he was having convulsions,his neck started elongating and i could even count his neck vertebrae, his eyes were swollen red like burning coal and protruding; he was unable to move! Sighting this no one dare touch the mysterious pigeon so i had to request my wife to pick it up and gently 'place' it outdoors. She did ,,all of us accompanied her. then we hid near out gate and watched what happened next. The haunted pigeon did not take a step here or there, just lay in the open where he was put. I saw a dog then a cat advancing towards him but suddenly both of them turned back and fled!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
We waited to see what went on with the haunted pigeon until darkness began to fall. He stayed there like the' king of the dead,' still convulsing and motionless!
Next morning I went there to have a look at him but he was gone! Gone but where?? Why it took him so long to ''go'' wherever his final destination was?? Why a pye dog and a cat won't come near him?
After observing the fate of the first pigeon, i tried the experiment with the other 3 pigeons. The second one did not die but could fly when released, showing that he was affected by some unknown spell but not as much as the first pigeon. The third bird showed less degree of affection while the
fourth one when released just took a straight dive into the sky and was gone!
Again, I repeated this experiment at a friend's house in another city,,,the pigeons which he gave me could not fly but just flitted and sat for hours on a branch or wall, however none of them died or had the same deadly condition which the first bird manifested.
I still cant figure out why this happened or can even happen if I tried it again! No magic, boy!
I'm sure you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
The bad news is that as any court of law in the world will show you, unsupported anecdotes form only very weak evidence. What's to investigate? We have your word alone, which I'm not going to question.
If you had thought a real paranormal event had occurred, why didn't you keep the bird/s and bag and take the birds to a vet immediately? There will be any number of quite rational reasons why the whole thing may have happened, but without anything concrete, it becomes one of millions of unexplained stories.
so, you agree that 'unexplainable' things do happen...does anyone on the links provided by you ever suggest a 'sscientific reason' for such things?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
Here in Pakistan, human life is so cheap that who the heck is going to care for the poor birds!
the most disturbing thing is that even today if I try the experiment the bird may suffer! Could you please send a Vet or advise the guys at Guiness to witness the scene?
No, I don't agree that unexplainable things happen - I said lots of things remain unexplained, as will your pigeons, since the evidence is only your word.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
I suspect that's being a little disingenuous, since there are plenty of vets in Pakistan, with a long-established society, and veterinary universities.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Well, if you can still do it, then it's your ticket to fame and fortune! At last count, there is over $US5,000,000 available to anyone able to display a genuine paranrmal ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I didn't say there are no Vets in Pakistan, I just said who cares for life here,,,and that too of a bird! The Vets are not that serious folks
here to look at such matters with awe and sincerity
I can still perform the 'feat' but don't feel like 'harming' the innocent birds for the sake of money. I'm greatly intrigued and want to discover as to why pigeons suffered?
thanks goodness I didnt have that capability with regard to humans otherwise I would be the most ''dreaded person' in the world!!
But, I hate getting Midas' ears for touching somelthing for money!;)
Nothing on wisemans website has even remotely convinced me that I should follow the links. As I mentioned previously the research he posted was wildly inconclusive and there was no information to back anything up. I have no reason to believe that his links are anything but the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
There are 2 very nice works by Wilson Colins,,,1. the Occult and 2. the Mysteries
I would recommend friends here going through them
I think it was a friendly old ghost - maybe a dead relative -- who was trying to tell me to stop it with the mall bangs and the Rave hairspray. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
I tend to be fairly skeptical of ghosts and paranormal activity but yet at the same time, I would never say absolutely they don't exist, more like it's just something I choose not to deal with. :lol: However, I did have a weird experience once when I was younger. I was in Boston, being a nanny, away from my family for the first time and I had a...something...a dream I suppose of my Grandmother standing at the foot of my bed, just looking at me, it was a comforting feeling, like I was being watched over and in the morning I got a call that she had passed away during the night. It freaked me out a little bit but at the same time, I felt that I had had the chance to say goodbye even though I was hundreds of miles away.
Here is another weird story I picked up from the web,,,enough to scare your socks off! Enjoy reading it!
A man is hitchhiking along the side of the road in the middle of nowhere on a very dark and very stormy night. It's pitch black, and the rain is so heavy and driving so hard that he can see only a few feet ahead of him. Suddenly he sees a car come toward him and stop.
Without thinking about it, the fellow gets in the car and closes the door -- only to realize that nobody is behind the wheel. The car starts slowly and picks up a little speed. The guy looks at the road and sees a curve coming his way.
Scared, he starts praying, begging for his life. Then, just before the car gets to the curve, a hand appears through the window and moves the wheel.
The fellow is paralyzed in terror, and as the car keeps moving he watches how the hand appears just before every curve.
Finally, he gathers the strength to open the door and leap from the car. He runs to the nearest town, and wet and in shock, he goes into a bar. He orders two shots of tequila, and as he's downing them he starts telling everybody about the horrible experience he's just gone through.
Everyone in the little bar is silent, and they realize the man is still terrified and crying, not drunk.
About half an hour later, two other men enter the bar, and as they look around, one says to the other, "Hey, look, Fred! That's the guy who climbed into the car while we were pushing!";):crash:
A friend of mine posted this like else where and i thought i'd post it here and see what people thought. :)
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.as...entid=15422134
This one gives you a better look at the photo. Creepy.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/eu...otland.ghosts/
I've had a few spooky experiences.
Sensation of someone sitting on the end of a bed i was sleeping on in a friends house. Same house i ended up sleeping on the couch because i had the wits scared out of me. One night, i heard the sound of someone coming down the stairs and i turned and looked at the door and a white hazy figure suddenly drifted through the door and started towards me. well i jumped out of my skin!
When i lived in a gate house in Ravensdale, Dundalk Co.Louth, i was the only person in the house one evening. I was sitting in what was our living room, when i heard the noise of the door from the kitchen to the room open (it was shut when i turned my head) and close and the sound of someone walking across the room right in front of me and the going out by the side door. There have been sitings of an old woman knitting in a chair in that room. It was once part of a vestry.
When i lived in Monaghan, myself and my friend tracy were in the house we were renting. She was in the shower and I was in my room, when i heard the sound of a man laugh from the hall outside my door.
When i lived in Mullengar, the house i lived in freaked me out so much i went to bed with a butcher knife. (no Joke!) For a while there were three of us living in the house, and the two swedish girls had rooms upstairs. Mine was down stairs by the kitchen (renovated garage). They left after a few weeks. They really wanted sleep. I was left in the house on my own for the last two weeks of the dig, constantly begging people from the site to stay in the house some night so i wasnt alone. Every night, one of the bedroom doors upstairs would open and close. (may i point out that this was the only room in the house we couldnt get into because it was locked. The three of us tried) There would be bangings and footsteps for hours.
When i was out one night for a site christmas party in the Dublin Brewing Company, i had a hand placed on my shoulder. There was no hand there and the only thing behind me as a pot belly stove.
When i was in Edinburgh a few years back, i visited Mary Kings Close. I was at the back of the group and someone hummed into my right ear. There was no one beside or behind me. I was there last year again and both myself and my friend heard a childs cry and i felt something take a hold of my jeans leg at knee height.
I've strange experiences in the house i'm sharing with my best friend. i was cooking dinner and i turned around and thought there was a black shadow of a man standing behind me. My heart was pounding in my throat it jumped so much. I've heard strange things in this house but this was the first time anything happened like that. my best friend saw a similar shadow at the top of the stairs another time and it scared the living daylights out of her. We leave the landing light on now...we have an open plan living/ kitchen area and I was sitting in a chair at one end in the livingroom and a wine glass tipped over on its own in the kitchen.
even spookier was while i was lying in bed one night i could hear my exercise ball in the corner being bounced.
My housemate said she could hear noises in my room while i was away in Canada like a door repeatedly opening and banging. I've heard the same thing happen to her bedroom door and only last week i closed the bathroom door over, but didnt shut it, walked into my bedroom and jumped at the sound of it slamming shut.
I also experience strange smells sometimes.
On the recent paranormal investigation i went on in Wales both myself and my friend got our hats pulled up from our heads. Then there is that picture...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...inthecrowd.jpg
Believe these or not, i'd never execpt people to believe stuff because i do. but these are genuine experiences. :) not everything can be explained by science! :)
Once there were two ghosts in a distant forlorn forest. Suddenly, there were a rustle of leaves. One of the ghosts turned back and thought he saw something.
He then said to his buddy, 'Could that be a human?'
'Shut up dumbass! We all know that there is nothing called humans!'
:D :p
do you mean no such thing as humans? :p
That is what the ghosts think... :nod::nod: Just like we don't believe in them, they don't believe in us...Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly: (I'm just using this emoticon coz I havent used it before and its rather cute.)
Edit:- Oh wait...Were you correcting me gramatically?:blush:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Sounds like the movie called The Others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhar
:shocked: :eek2: :cold: After reading this, I will have another sleepless night...it's 10:45 in the night here and I live alone... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
the others is a fantastic movie! I love it!
Oops! Sorry Maddie!
I'm a rationalist and never accepted the paranormal either in the form of ghosts or any other strange phenomenon until something happened to me for which there is no rational explanation. I won't reveal what it was because it was something very personal to me but all I will say is that what was once a certainty as regards the paranormal no longer remains so.
Niamh, not to sound like a total *beep* but what's on the picture you posted that's paranormal? I mean, other than bits of dust and a couple of people I can't find anything (unless there's someone in the picture that wasn't there when the picture was taken but nobody seems out of place ;) )
Just asking because I feel silly for not getting it :s
Btw, actually enjoyed your scary experiences but that's most likely because of my guilty pleasure marathons of Ghost Hunters ;) (ahem, anybody else wanna 'fess up to following the show? :p)
:nod:Wednesday nights...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay