About animals

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Originally Posted by Danik 2016

I am glad Fred went back to his owner because after what happened I don´t know how you would get along .

Of course I am not in a condition to answer these questions, but what they have in common is that they are based on the assumption that both animals acted as certain humans would have acted in that situation. The idea of a chicken comiting suicide because she has lost her companions doesn´t seem totally impossible to me but it is very strange. And I wouldn´t find it strange that the dog tricked you in the spur of the moment, but planing weeks in advance... I don´t know.

Unfortunately I didn´t find anything more scientific but this link might interest you.

https://www.quora.com/Do-animals-hav...the-harm#!n=60

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That link was amazing and I bookmarked it. It also looks like crows and dogs and probably other species can share their desire for revenge with other crows and dogs and get their cooperation. Here is a link from that link showing this: http://www.seeker.com/angry-birds-cr...765286502.html I hadn't considered the social aspect of this, but that made me realize I assume those animals act as individuals. That even needs to be questioned.

My most intense encounter with Fred was after I walked that half mile back to the cabin finding Fred chewing on one of the birds. The surviving bird flew to a perch out of the way, but there was only room there for one bird. She could see all of the damage. Fred saw me, dropped the bird and went inside the cabin as if he were going to defend that place as his own. I walked in and listened to his growling and saw his bared teeth. I got onto my knees so I could more easily defend myself and hold him down when he came at me. I had his chain in one hand and I told him harshly to come to me. We stared each other down and I expected him to attack. I wasn't sure if I would survive that encounter unharmed. Then he lowered his head and walked over submissively and I chained him. I felt sorry for him at that point and forgave him whether he forgave me or not.

I didn´t know that either. Maybe it is just another form of protecting the group. What I miss in the internet are truly scientifical articles in English (written by researchers and not just by journalists). In Portuguese you sometimes find what you want, In English you usually have to pay for the articles.
As we say in Portuguese Yes/No, you poked the tiger with the short stick. The "tiger" in this case acepted you as his master in the situation, probably because you showed no fear.
I shoudn´t wonder if Fred got a bit confused in the beginning about who his real owner was.

I normally don't pay for research articles although I might purchase survey level books. Usually there is some source that will provide the non-expert level of information that I find relevant without cost. If I were a researcher studying a particular field, I would have to have those sources, but then I would probably be a member of those organizations already.

As far as science goes, most of this would be considered anecdotal, which is a kind of uncontrolled data or measurement. They could form the motivation of an experiment that generates more measurements. I usually restrict science to collecting data (including anecdotes), performing experiments to generate data and then constructing a model to explain the data. Anything outside that is philosophy or speculation.

Fred probably thought he was the alpha dog, and that would have been fine with me, but he was inside the cabin where he normally did not go. I would likely do the same thing if I were in his place. I do think it would be possible for him, seeing that last chicken approach him, to feel some empathy and not harm the chicken. That would be a real sign of compassion, but humans rarely do that either.

The lesser known "Google Scholar" might be of use for research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Scholar

It is limited in scope (small / growing database) but can come up with some interesting results.

Example: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...n&as_sdt=0%2C5

Digg is being guest curated by Audubon today; a sample:

Woggins... http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles...m_medium=email

5 missing Audubon birds... http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles...m_medium=email

Thanks, good tip, Tailor, I knew about Scholar but had quite forgotten about him.
What I was looking for, where some solid experiments in animal and particularly dog psychology. Unfortunately articles by Scielo and other scientific magazines are seldomly to be had for free.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I normally don't pay for research articles although I might purchase survey level books. Usually there is some source that will provide the non-expert level of information that I find relevant without cost. If I were a researcher studying a particular field, I would have to have those sources, but then I would probably be a member of those organizations already.

As far as science goes, most of this would be considered anecdotal, which is a kind of uncontrolled data or measurement. They could form the motivation of an experiment that generates more measurements. I usually restrict science to collecting data (including anecdotes), performing experiments to generate data and then constructing a model to explain the data. Anything outside that is philosophy or speculation.

Fred probably thought he was the alpha dog, and that would have been fine with me, but he was inside the cabin where he normally did not go. I would likely do the same thing if I were in his place. I do think it would be possible for him, seeing that last chicken approach him, to feel some empathy and not harm the chicken. That would be a real sign of compassion, but humans rarely do that either.

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I think Yes/No we live in a society that antromorphises everything, animals, objects, robots, aliens and so on, and it seems for us natural to expect that the animals will behave in the way we would or the way we think right. That was the reason I was so shocked about the cat that killed her kitten. As for Fred I don´t know if he would be able to feel compassion or even know what that feeling was. He might be simply fed up with those, from his point of view irritating chicken, but even that I don't know.

Google Scholar looks pretty good. I've added the button to Chrome. There is also a Google Image search interface: https://images.google.com Click the camera icon. Then you can copy the url of an image and place that into the search engine and get information on it.

I tend to anthropomorphize animals, and de-anthropomorphize robots.

Found this on the Scholar link Tailor recomended. I don´t like the Google form of books content display
but this link might interest you. Seems to be a kind of history of taming and pet creating.

https://books.google.com.br/books?hl...hology&f=false

The forward is by Marc Bekoff. He was the ethologist co-author in the earlier book I was reading. That one does look interesting. Thanks!

You mean the one about animal morals? That is a coincidence. Maybe there are not so many scientist that write about the theme. I hope this book or something similar is available in your library.

Just one more article found also on Scholar:
http://ac.els-cdn.com/03043762839011...ce294fb87ce768

A lot of activity going on just now on:

http://nutiminn.is/kattarshians/

First time I see these kittens play. I tmust be getting warmer over there.

There are three views on the kattarshians: top floor, bottom floor and above. I didn't notice that the last time. This might be a way to discretely study animals such as those bats. I also bookmarked the article on you cited on Scholar.

I read that it was actually based on Big Brother. However in this case, there isn't much to watch as the kittens mostly sleep. Anyway it´s a way to make people interested in adopting then.

What do you feed your cat? Or other pets? We feed a dry food supplemented with some canned stuff, but we are substituting that for tuna that humans consume. It is cheaper (surprisingly) than the canned cat food and the cat likes it better or at least the cat finishes eating it.