does religion/God give people a voice?

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Originally Posted by Delta40

From God is Imaginary:
Here are ten passages from the Bible that clearly demonstrate God's position on slavery.......

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The "Bible Passages" you posted are not quoted exactly from the Bible...they are commentaries by someone who doesn't understand their history. And since he has taken them out of context, it's unclear which form of slavery was being discussed. God, in no way, condoned the form of slavery we know of in recent times. I'll explain:

1. Slavery in the Old Testament times was very different from slavery in more recent times worldwide. In Old Testament times it was not based just on race, nationality, or color, but rather social status. Man sold themselves as slaves when they couldn't take care of their families and owed debt. Even politicians, lawyers, and doctors were slaves. Some chose to be slaves so they would be taken care of by their masters.

2. The Bible is definitely against slavery. The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for being Hebrew (Exodus 13:4) so God brought plagues to Egypt to demonstrate how God feels about slavery (Exodus 7-11)

3. The kind of slaves we think of that were kidnapped from Africa and sold (slave-trading) was appalling to God who said, “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). In 1Timothy 1:8-10 it says, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers.

4. "A crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery." Hard Sayings of the Bible by Kaiser, Davids, & Brauch and Logos Bible Software.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

...Why doesn't he perform some impressive miracles? For instance, why not part the Red Sea every time Richard Dawkins drinks a coffee? Or zap an atheist scientist with a thunderbolt every time he says, "There is no God."

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Because a faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. When God performed impressive miracles for the Israelites, it didn't cause them to obey God...they rebelled. Then when they saw God part the Red Sea, they later doubted whether God was able to conquer the inhabitants of the Promised Land (Luke 16:16-31).
God still performs miracles today but all too often people see one, have great faith, and then overtime their faith fades.

Whatever Melanie. Go ahead and choose what is literal, what is relative and what is metaphorical so you can justify your beliefs. It doesn't bother me at all. Science doesn't make excuses and is willing to correct itself in the pursuit of knowledge.

The hypocrisy is further added as you pick and choose which sciences to trust in to enhance your life. It is difficult to give you any credibility as you select and reject at will.

Unlike you I'm not condeming you to hell for having your beliefs nor do I campaign against those who defy atheism since it doesn't teach a doctrine of beliefs to turn good people against others.

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Originally Posted by Melanie

Because a faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. When God performed impressive miracles for the Israelites, it didn't cause them to obey God...they rebelled. Then when they saw God part the Red Sea, they later doubted whether God was able to conquer the inhabitants of the Promised Land (Luke 16:16-31).
God still performs miracles today but all too often people see one, have great faith, and then overtime their faith fades.

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I am not sure that faith fades as much as the things we are told to do because religion says so. the acts of doing what someone says we m ust tend to fade over time. but what does not fade is a belief in something like I believe there is another higher being amongst us in a different world.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Unlike you I'm not condeming you to hell for having your beliefs nor do I campaign against those who defy atheism since it doesn't teach a doctrine of beliefs to turn good people against others.

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Unlike me?? You must be stereotyping me because I never "condemned you" nor even judged you. I only answered some questions here with a few things I know about the Bible...you weren't even mentioned. You sound a little hostile toward me. I don't judge others. I leave that up to God. I'm just expressing my beliefs. I believe the rules state to "respect the religions of others"?

Read Hebrews chapters 7, 8, 9, and 10. That is why Christians no longer need to adhere to OT laws. There is some verses here and there in other books as well, but nothing like this. 4 chapters in a row in explicit detail.

No other religion has better arguments than Christianity as to why God must exist and why we need him, and lack of belief is just plain dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Melanie

God still performs miracles today but all too often people see one, have great faith, and then overtime their faith fades.

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Couldn't agree more, and every day, I see staunch believers tell the world about these miracles, but nobody listens.

Miracles like the bodyguard in Diana's car living, while one of the world's most recognisable altruists got squashed like a bug.

Or Tim Tebow giving thanks to his God for helping him win a really important game of whatever it is, or avoid Taylor Swift - I can't remember which.

And New Zealand's own hero last week, Sonny-Bill Williams, crediting a god with his team's win; a game described by most of the sporting media as a miracle win.

Meanwhile, thousands of children die screaming in a chemical gas attack. Just to test your faith.

That's what I like best about this god fella you guys have - the way he's so cunningly devious to test human faith every day. Treating the entire species with the contempt he showed Job, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, G-d or just plain God. I can only admire the faith of those who see that it all doesn't matter and can smile in the face of a starving child, because who are we to question the will of a being so powerful he can treat us that way.

Delta: I'm in awe of your posting skills.

God doesn't look at death as a bad thing...quite the contrary. He's bringing his children home to an eternal life of glorious bliss...forever and ever. This life is a drop in the bucket. Meanwhile, the method that was chosen to end that life was not God's choice. God chooses to answer the fervent prayer of man, no matter how small or insignificant it may be. God knows what is best for us and all of mankind so He answers accordingly. It's a different scenario each time. Only God knows His perfect plan.

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Originally Posted by Melanie

God doesn't look at death as a bad thing...

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And yet the bodily death of his son was enough to wipe out all the sins of mankind.

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Originally Posted by Melanie

He's bringing his children home to an eternal life of glorious bliss...forever and ever.

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That is the worst torture I could imagine - eternal life. I reckon I'd be ready to throw the towel in after a couple of thousand years, but there are still trillions of years to go. I can't imagine why people are drawn to the idea.

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Originally Posted by Melanie

Meanwhile, the method that was chosen to end that life was not God's choice. God chooses to answer the fervent prayer of man, no matter how small or insignificant it may be.

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Yes, the parents of kids starving to death in Somalia should pray harder.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

And yet the bodily death of his son was enough to wipe out all the sins of mankind.

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Exactly...good thing!...or we would never be worthy to enter into eternal life. And don't forget He rose 3 days later and lives.

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Originally Posted by Atheist

That is the worst torture I could imagine - eternal life.

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It sure as hell beats the alternative, if you get my drift.

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Originally Posted by Atheist

Yes, the parents of kids starving to death in Somalia should pray harder.

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You recently asked about the suffering children and my answer is the same. Maybe you were hoping someone else would respond. Fervent doesn't mean "harder". It means sincere, heartfelt, and ardent. I'm sure there are many many worldwide praying for them so "fervent" is covered. Now we come to why God hasn't answered those prayers. He has. He has either answered yes, no, or wait for my perfect timing according to my plan. There are over 100 scriptures, all with different reasons, why God allows good people to suffer. He doesn't cause the suffering but He has the ability to mend it. In His perfect plan it's all about love...showing our love, bringing families together, growing closer in a relationship with God, receiving love, testing our love, etc etc. Here's one thing....ever notice how every day is filled with tests, large and small? One of the commandments is to love thy neighbor as thyself. He wants us to help others in need like the starving children. Are you doing your part? And if we're the ones suffering, he sometimes wants us to use that for us to experience what it's like so we're better able to be more compassionate toward someone else who may go through the same thing....again, love. There are way too many reasons for me to list here but you can find them in the Bible. I may list a 100 of them someday in a thread, but it will take time to gather them all. Remember, God says He will reward those in heaven who have suffered in His name.

Oops apologies for my assumption. Since 9/11 anti Muslim propoganda has spread like wild fire and I struggle to support a country who would defy the Geneva convention and call my brother's and sisters to war and imprison them in the horrors of gitmo.

Then again with your faith everyone who died that day should be enjoying eternal life and it was part of gods plan so no need for tears...

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Originally Posted by Melanie

You recently asked about the suffering children and my answer is the same. Maybe you were hoping someone else would respond. Fervent doesn't mean "harder". It means sincere, heartfelt, and ardent. I'm sure there are many many worldwide praying for them so "fervent" is covered. Now we come to why God hasn't answered those prayers. He has. He has either answered yes, no, or wait for my perfect timing according to my plan. There are over 100 scriptures, all with different reasons, why God allows good people to suffer. He doesn't cause the suffering but He has the ability to mend it. In His perfect plan it's all about love...showing our love, bringing families together, growing closer in a relationship with God, receiving love, testing our love, etc etc. Here's one thing....ever notice how every day is filled with tests, large and small? One of the commandments is to love thy neighbor as thyself. He wants us to help others in need like the starving children. Are you doing your part? And if we're the ones suffering, he sometimes wants us to use that for us to experience what it's like so we're better able to be more compassionate toward someone else who may go through the same thing....again, love. There are way too many reasons for me to list here but you can find them in the Bible. I may list a 100 of them someday in a thread, but it will take time to gather them all. Remember, God says He will reward those in heaven who have suffered in His name.

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We can't forget that God suffered too. He didn't just watch us suffer alone, but he partook in the suffering with us. What god has ever done that?

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Originally Posted by Melanie

Maybe you were hoping someone else would respond.

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I wasn't, because I could have typed more or less exactly what the response would be, so I'm glad you didn't disappoint.

"...His perfect plan..."

Amen

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

Religion is multifarious. The church I sometimes attend has a female minister and other churches of its kind have homosexual ministers. It is also one of the very largest church denominations in my country. My extensive reading of Buddhist literature offers no indication that females or homosexuals are discriminated against in that religion...

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There are examples of discrimination against women in Buddhism. For instance, ordination of women is totally opposed in some Buddhist traditions. Ajahn Brahm was excommunicated for attempting it:

http://zenmirror.blogspot.co.uk/2012...cated-for.html

I guess it all depends on what people view as discrimination against women...I guess I would be considered discriminatory against my own gender lol.