Is marriage a defunct institution?

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Originally Posted by Patrick_Bateman

They say 50% of marriages end in divorce these days now, don't they?

I think there is a changing attitude towards marriage; some people enter into these unions knowing how easily reversable it now is; due to this fact a lot of young couples rush into such commitments to one another.
Marriage is no longer 'forever'; a binding of two people in love for eternity. But then again you can say that the institution of marriage was even less about love prior to the twentieth century, among the upper echelons of society anyway, it was about political alliances, dowries, consolidating power and influence through connections with a powerful and influential family.

The divorce rates can also be attributed to the change in the role of women over the decades. The proliferation of strong, powerful, independent women means that a lot of women are no longer dependent on a man to provide for them. I also think dating websites and social networking have led to more marriages and there for higher potential for more marriages to fail. And on the flip side the same websites are responsible for a lot of marriage break-ups.

For me, and my girlfriend, marriage itself isn't a necessary or fundamental step in our relationship. We would be just as happy co-habitating for the rest of our days. I think a big reason why people get married these days is because they want to celebrate their love with their families, and because society seems to decree the institution of marriage as a prerequisite to a happy family life; It makes things simpler and more convenient. I don't think people think about it as much as they should, and when they do think I don't think they are considering what needs to be considered.

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Are there any financial benefits to being married in England? In the states, there're a lot of tax benefits, not to mention privileges, such as being able to see your spouse if they're in the hospital (this is often a big point in support of gay marriage, that a man/woman can't visit their partner in the hospital even if they've been together for 30 years).

There are also parental rights issues in a lot of jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Marriage is old, much older than recorded history. Artifacts from pre-history suggest that marriage has existed as long as there's been hierarchical society, and it's existed in literally every single culture, almost every tribe, everywhere. It's not always been about man + woman either, I know off the top of my head that in some places in Africa a woman can be the husband and marry another woman, taking on the male roles if there were no other suitable males available or if she was the most suitable for the husband role. This practice has existed for hundreds of years. All traditions of "regular" marriage are observed, the female husband's family even recieves dowry.

Anyway, yeah, marriage is to do with society, not religion or money. I'm obviously not the wife type, but I think that where there's society, there's going to be marriage. Even if religion ceased to be a factor in society, I believe marriage would remain.

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Thankyou Juniper. I was obviously not the wife type too once when I was your age, or maybe a bit younger. Then I met my husband and still didn't quite know what I was doing, but I was glad I did it!! I think marriage is here to stay. A lot of people stay married for a long time, I've been at it for 28 years. It gets better too as you get older, silly arguments don't matter anymore. And it's great because you and your spouse forget what the argument is about anyways. And you forget about what you thought you wanted to argue about but can't be bothered. As far as the ceremony goes, it doesn't have to be expensive. We got married at my mothers house- we didn't care what other people did.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

Thankyou Juniper. I was obviously not the wife type too once when I was your age, or maybe a bit younger. Then I met my husband and still didn't quite know what I was doing, but I was glad I did it!! I think marriage is here to stay. A lot of people stay married for a long time, I've been at it for 28 years. It gets better too as you get older, silly arguments don't matter anymore. And it's great because you and your spouse forget what the argument is about anyways. And you forget about what you thought you wanted to argue about but can't be bothered. As far as the ceremony goes, it doesn't have to be expensive. We got married at my mothers house- we didn't care what other people did.

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I'm not sure my parents, married nearly 30 years, feel the same. They argue all the time, get genuinely angry at each other, etc etc. I know for a fact they couldn't live without each other, though, no matter how many times my dad says he'd like to get a Winnebago and just drive away (jokingly . . . sorta).

I think the institution is changing. Whether you call that change "defunct" is a personal issue.

I've been married for 13 years, have two daughters, and am happy in my station in life. The relationship is fine. I can count the number of fights we've had on one hand. I think what most people miss, from my perspective is that they think that marriage is about one thing: passionate love.

It's not about just that. Passionate love is a part of the married relationship. But it's just an element of the relationship. . . . . sort of like an arm is to a body. A marriage has passion, friendship, collaboration, business, dependence, independence. . . . . Anyway, I think of it as the sum total of all one's previous relationships wrapped into one. But not excluding any of the others. Mrs. Comedian and I have friends, common and unique, and we love to spend time together. We work to keep house, family, and finances together. We love each other. . . . and so on.

Hell, I cooked dinner (glazed salmon, Japanese buckwheat noodles, spinach salad), and she's reading to the kids before they go to bed while I type this). . . .

But I digress. Is marriage defunct? Nope. Different. Yep.

I am wondering whether marriage is an institution at all. It is not an academy or organisation you join... Marriage is between two people and it is what you make of it.

The rules of engagement are determined between those two people, regardless of what rest of the world population expect or even demand. And if it often comes down to this, I believe: Do you want to make it work with that particular person or not?

The definition of "institution" seems applicable (marriage even being used as an example): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/institution

My dad calls his workplace "the institution" (he's a prison guard). I guess I have always thought of marriage as comparable to a prison.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

The definition of "institution" seems applicable (marriage even being used as an example): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/institution

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I am well aware of the usage; I was simply reflecting on the notion myself... With which I am still not sure that I agree.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

My dad calls his workplace "the institution" (he's a prison guard). I guess I have always thought of marriage as comparable to a prison.

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Life with no possibility of parole? :smilewinkgrin:

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

My dad calls his workplace "the institution" (he's a prison guard). I guess I have always thought of marriage as comparable to a prison.

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It doesn't have to be. I guess if one was married to an overly possessive person it would seem that way. If people are careful in who they select it should not resemble a prison at all.

Yeah, my mom always said that there is usually a rocky patch somewhere in a long marriage, and if people stay through that they come out closer on the other side. I don't know if that's true or not, and it is a generalization. It would seem logical that in a very long relationship that a couple might have to renegotiate the terms. Also, who have you married? Are they who they say they are? I got married, and I got divorced. I really thought, though, that he's stick around to be there for his kids. But on the day he left he put the computer in the car, got in and drove away. He did maintain some contact with his sons for a number of years, but has lately become estranged from them it seems. They were all the last ones to contact him.

So all you can do, really, is determine to be as present as you can. Which I plan to remember the next time I'm in a relationship. :)

One just have to look at the celebrities marriage saga and you would realise how theatrically messy the whole concept is.
Celebrities go through marraiges like water it is almost addictive
there are more divorces then marriages if you go byt celebrities
That is the costs it seems to me of glamorising anything, the end result is usually of a sour nature, not so glamorous after all.

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Originally Posted by qimissung

Yeah, my mom always said that there is usually a rocky patch somewhere in a long marriage, and if people stay through that they come out closer on the other side. I don't know if that's true or not, and it is a generalization. It would seem logical that in a very long relationship that a couple might have to renegotiate the terms. Also, who have you married? Are they who they say they are? I got married, and I got divorced. I really thought, though, that he's stick around to be there for his kids. But on the day he left he put the computer in the car, got in and drove away. He did maintain some contact with his sons for a number of years, but has lately become estranged from them it seems. They were all the last ones to contact him.

So all you can do, really, is determine to be as present as you can. Which I plan to remember the next time I'm in a relationship. :)

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Well, that is a sad story. I must say that after I compared my husband to the other guys I had dated, I knew he was the opposite of them, and that was a critical reason to stay with him. We had 5 years of great fun and interesting times before our mentally disabled son was born, and then after that it was a real commitment on our part to stay together and help him and each other. There was no "us" anymore, our lives were dedicated to him, and it was very stressful. We understood that and still do. Ofcourse there are rocky times, it's just part of being human. But now, even after our son has left home, we are still committed, after all these years we somehow work, and still have fun. We share the sorrow of our son, and would rather share it together. So maybe we are different from others, and it is very isolating to have a son like this, as it is not common. We have been through too much together.

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Originally Posted by cacian

That is the costs it seems to me about glamorising anythin the end result is usually of a sour nature, not so glamorous after all.

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That is not a result of glamourising marriage, but, I believe, a result of marrying for wrong reasons. And sometimes, even though one might start out a journey for the right reasons with a person whom they consider to be "right", circumstances change, people change and develop so it may not last a life time but that is no reason, again in my opinion, not to try.

Very rarely I take celebrities as role models for myself so I am not so sure I want to do that where an important issue like marriage is concerned either.

There are so many real-life stories in this thread and I would like to thank everyone for sharing theirs so honestly.

Whom you marry is key of course but also why you marry. At 24 I decided I was ready to be a mom, I had no great desire to be a wife really but for me, one had to follow the other. I know that I genuinely felt I loved my sons' dad at the time we married but we really didn't know each other that well. He was a good guy and I thought he would be a good father but the fact of the matter was, I was much more ready to be a mother than a wife and I overlooked a few really critical red flags. Once those boys were born, the relationship with their dad became harder and harder to maintain. He was a nice guy, his heart was usually in the right place but those issues I ignored so that I could have babies just didn't go away, we weren't suited for each other, we couldn't communicate, we didn't have the same goals and after a few really honest tries, the relationship just...failed. I stuck around for the boys for many years, too many years, because I thought it was best but when I think of the example of marriage those two boys have grown up with, I feel so sad for them. All they know of marriage is two miserable people that never talk, never touch and who were barely functional as human beings and not at all functional as a couple. We have talked about it since the split, the boys and I, and they acknowledge that they understood it was not a good or normal marriage, in fact their response when told we were getting divorced was, "We're not surprised." but still, it haunts me that is their picture of marriage.

I really thought I would never marry again after that fiasco and it took awhile to get my bearings but...and this is so important...it's all about meeting the right person, the person that makes you feel good about yourself, that inspires you to be a better person, that can genuinely comfort you and someone you can have fun with. I don't think you have to marry in order to have that kind of relationship, some people don't need that piece of paper to tie them to a person or a relationship and that's just fine but I like the concept of marriage and I'm very excited and ready to experience a good marriage.