The Bible is unreadable

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

Because I'd had no success reading the full Bible I thought I'd try an abridged version ("Testament" abridged by Philip Law). But I couldn't even get through that! It still had too many old prophets charging round the desert doing despicable, meaningless and unmotivated things.

I was reading the Iliad at the same time, and turning to it for light relief! I finished that and started reading Dostoevsky, Shakespeare, and Tolstoy, so there was then no hope of continuing the Bible! I ground to a halt somewhere in "David" and just couldn't go on...

The "100 minute Bible" has just been delivered, maybe I can finish that!

Are there any out-takes forn the Bible that are actually readable for someone who expects a reasonable aesthetic experience from their reading? People like Stephen Mitchell have translated parts of the Bible (Job, Gospels...) I've a feeling that might be the way to go, i.e., read the parts that good writers and poets have felt worth translating.... Any recommendations along this line?

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For what purpose are you reading the Bible? I find it interesting and readible.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Sure, any written text can be considered literary. Some even claim the phone book.

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Who exactly? Serious critics, like Howard Bloom, would not count the phone book as literature because it has no aesthetic value.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

But, let me concede that an element of the Bible, not the primary one but a secondary element, is literary.

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Maybe not the primary one for you, but it is the primary one for me. Who made you the judge to say what the main value of the Bible is for everyone?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I just did a search. There are tons of books and I don't want to steer you toward a particularly religiously narrow one from the perspective of one Christian denomination. You can actually start on the internet. Wikipedia has excellent explications of each chapter of the bible. All you have to do is google a chapter, like this, "exudus wikipedia" and it will come up.

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I've done, and am still doing, all that. But you get lost in the snow of "narrow" texts, and a lot more. It took me an age to find "Testament" in this way, and it almost works for what I want. But I'd like something that works better.

To try and be clearer, what I'm looking for is an abridged Bible that retains all the text of literary, aesthetic value with a minimum of the "phone book" & "historical chronicle" elements.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

It lacks a plot and is overcrowded with characters that the author has chosen not to develop. Perhaps it is a picaresque novel. :nod:

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Good picaresque novels do not feel overcrowded with characters and have (at least!) an adequate plot. I've just finished Moll Flanders and it was an excellent read! Recently I completed Don Quixote, an even more enjoyable experience. To call the Bible a picaresque novel is to insult the picaresque novel...

Serious critics like Bloom are a pain in the ***, because Scientific Literature is Literature and not because any aesthetic merits.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

It lacks a plot and is overcrowded with characters that the author has chosen not to develop. Perhaps it is a picaresque novel. :nod:

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Well I don't make that claim. It's the New Historicist critics. More contemporary garbage for criticism.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

Good picaresque novels do not feel overcrowded with characters and have (at least!) an adequate plot. I've just finished Moll Flanders and it was an excellent read! Recently I completed Don Quixote, an even more enjoyable experience. To call the Bible a picaresque novel is to insult the picaresque novel...

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Well I don't make that claim. It's the New Historicist critics. More contemporary garbage for criticism.

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I was referring to the phone book.:lol:

Maybe what I need is a good dictionary. The phone book might be interesting if you had a dictionary of universal biography to hand :D

The "Penguin Dictionary of the Bible" looks promising. Has anyone had experience of this or a similar dictionary? Would you recommend it?

lost my first attempt. I would first recommend a concordance (Young's, Strongs), then a lexicon, followed by a Greek Interlinear, and finally something on structure and figures of speech (not all treasures lie on the surface, but some do) (E.W. Bullinger?). If it's understanding that you seek, I recommend starting to believe what is written, beginning with Romans 10:9-10.

I'd recommend a good dictionary or encyclopedia of mythology. Unlike gbrekken, I'd recommend reading the bible as text written by human beings with all their dated prejudices and misconceptions. As soon as you believe everything that is written there, then you may as well stop reading: it could say anything and it would still mean the same to you. It helps to have a critical eye when reading anything, especially fantastic claims made in ancient literature like those made in the bible. If you wish to read the bible as gbrekken suggests you might like to read Matthew 27 3-8 and follow that with Acts 1 18-19, and then ask yourself exactly how did Judas die? and who was it who bought the field? This should give you a flavour of the problems involved when believing what you read in the bible.

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Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

I'd recommend a good dictionary or encyclopedia of mythology. Unlike gbrekken, I'd recommend reading the bible as text written by human beings with all their dated prejudices and misconceptions. As soon as you believe everything that is written there, then you may as well stop reading: it could say anything and it would still mean the same to you. It helps to have a critical eye when reading anything, especially fantastic claims made in ancient literature like those made in the bible. If you wish to read the bible as gbrekken suggests you might like to read Matthew 27 3-8 and follow that with Acts 1 18-19, and then ask yourself exactly how did Judas die? and who was it who bought the field? This should give you a flavour of the problems involved when believing what you read in the bible.

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Fascinating point, it seems that after hanging himself, Judas managed to buy a field and draw and quarter himself.

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Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

I'd recommend a good dictionary or encyclopedia of mythology. .

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That is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Do you also advise to read the Cliff Notes to War and Peace rather than reading the novel itself? If your prejudices toward religion affects your reading list, by all means do whatever you wish. But to advise in such a way as to not read the single most important book of western culture is incredibly ignorant. Sure read with a critical eye; no one is asking anyone to convert. But no matter what your religious views, don't let prejudices (hateful prejudices at that) affect your understanding of any book.

As to your discrepency, the bible was not written as a historical document. Having multiple authors of varying perspectives over varying times it creates a layering of thought and connotations. Whether you find those thoughts and connotations as being inspired by divinity, that's your decsion.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

That is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Do you also advise to read the Cliff Notes to War and Peace rather than reading the novel itself? If your prejudices toward religion affects your reading list, by all means do whatever you wish. But to advise in such a way as to not read the single most important book of western culture is incredibly ignorant. Sure read with a critical eye; no one is asking anyone to convert. But no matter what your religious views, don't let prejudices (hateful prejudices at that) affect your understanding of any book.

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I don't think Antiguhya was suggesting that one reads a mythology book instead of the bible; she was merely stating that :
1. to begin reading a work with any bias, belief or nonbelief, will sway the persons views
2. also, it is true, that many of the historical accounts in the bible are also shared in several cultures mythology.
As far as I'm concerned, if a person is a great believer in the bible,the fact that so many cultures share one account should be a testament to their faith.
On the other hand, others believe that these stories came from mans need to explain his existance.
I don't think any additional research, on literature, is ever in vain. I have often read cliff notes, Harold Bloom and any other critiques to find out others opinions and perhaps, see something I may have missed in a book. It is obvious that Antiguhya has looked alot more closely at the scriptures than many who are of the christian faith. The point she made about Judas is one I have never heard; and that is why we are on this forum: to exchange ideas and grow from our discoveries.

Some of the books of the Bible, like the Book of Job, work quite well as literature. Many of the psalms are half decent poetry too, but the vast majority of the Bible verges on being unreadable.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

I don't think Antiguhya was suggesting that one reads a mythology book instead of the bible; she was merely stating that :

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If that is so, then I apologize to Antiguha. But I'm not sure that's what she meant.

atiguhya padma is a boy, not a girl :idea: