July / USA Reading: The Road by Cormac McCarthy

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Originally Posted by Hira

And it is curious they are always referred to by ‘man’ and ‘boy’.

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I find it very clever actually. The novel is set in America but since there are no actual names given to the characters and places, one may very well imagine the story to happen in any place and to anybody on Earth. I think this method gives more dimension to the story, that if a kind of apocalyptic destruction that's described in The Road occurs it could/would affect not only one corner of the globe but rather the whole planet itself.

That said, there's a passage in the book that I found quite interesting. On page 204 the man finds on the ground a coin with a Spanish inscription. Has he, with his son, gone all the way south to Mexico perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I haven't finished. I'm about half way, and I must say at this point I can't put the book down. I'm glued in. ;)

Second thing I wish to point out is the style, especially the short clumps of paragraphs. I was going to say that the paragraphs are fragmented, but fragmented tends to imply a disconnect in some fashion, say like William Faulkner does in many places. I don't find that there is a disconnect from one passage to the next, they are just chopped apart.

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As a creative writing technique, double spaced paragraphs are called caesura, and I sense you are looking for a word about what this does for the father's narrative voice. I would not say the short block paragraphs fragment, so much as deliberately break the potential monotony the reader might experience.

I am only in the first 25 pages, so I am bringing up old stuff, but I wanted to focus on what the father thinks to himself:

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He knew only that the child was his warrant. He said: If he is not the word of God God never spoke.

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I know another poster brought this up, but I find it an interesting note to drop in an opening of a story which opens in medias res. I looked up the word warrant, since I figured McCarthy didn't mean arrest warrant, and maybe this definition is most applicable: "Justification for an action or a belief; grounds".

I am too early into the book to know how ironic McCarthy is being here, but I think the way he wrote it meant the reader was supposed to pay attention.

One minor question in my mind is how much research Cormac did on nuclear fallout. It may not suit his minimalism, but I have trouble believing the boy managed to escape radiation sickness--even if the bombs hit just after his birth--but again, this is minor. I think this is a prose poem of sorts, as opposed to a novel, or at the very least meant to be taken as fabulist.

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Originally Posted by Jozanny

I looked up the word warrant, since I figured McCarthy didn't mean arrest warrant, and maybe this definition is most applicable: "Justification for an action or a belief; grounds".

I am too early into the book to know how ironic McCarthy is being here, but I think the way he wrote it meant the reader was supposed to pay attention.

One minor question in my mind is how much research Cormac did on nuclear fallout. It may not suit his minimalism, but I have trouble believing the boy managed to escape radiation sickness--even if the bombs hit just after his birth--but again, this is minor. I think this is a prose poem of sorts, as opposed to a novel, or at the very least meant to be taken as fabulist.

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Yes the nature of the apocalypse did bug me quite a bit as I probably revealed in my rant back there :) as has been pointed out though we don't know for sure that it is nuclear. and yes I also felt it was more poetry than story telling, McCarthy uses this apocalypse with a great deal of artistic licence, he doesn't directly tell us what it is so that he can get away with inventing the details to suit his purpose.

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Originally Posted by DapperDrake

and yes I also felt it was more poetry than story telling, McCarthy uses this apocalypse with a great deal of artistic licence, he doesn't directly tell us what it is so that he can get away with inventing the details to suit his purpose.

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Why does it bug you that it's poetic? Poetic and story telling are not mutually exclusive. May I mention that Homer, Virgil, the Beowulf author, Dante, Milton, and really so many more used poetry to tell their stories? Actually it's the height of literature to combine poetry and narrative.

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Originally Posted by lugdunum

I agree with you Virgil. I think religion is clearly present in the book. There are many references to God but it doesn't say which one nor does it give details so I would tend to think that it's God as an omnipresent force. I don't have the book with me now but I remember at least one sentence where God is quoted:



As for references to Christian religion, I read somewhere that even though McCarthy was raised as a Roman Catholic, as a writer he is atheist. So I don't know if there are any Christian references. Have you seen any Bouquin?

The only one I can think of (and I think that it is maybe reaching quite far) is the reference to a fish (early symbol of Christ if I'm not mistaken) in the last paragraph. What do you think?

Personally, I'm not convinced but would be happy to know your opinions.

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I do not know if the 'God' that is mentioned in the book is the Christian God. Perhaps it just again a 'poetic way' of referring to morality and human goodness. But if that be the case, how come the boy tries to talk to God? (second to the last paragraph). But then he finds that the best thing was to talk to his father... This seems to give the idea that the 'God' here is really somebody or a spirit out there that the boy can talk to (it's just that he prefers to communicate with the spirit/person/memory of his dad) and not goodness and mercy which one rather lives and shows and not talk to. Or perhaps 'talk to God' here is meant to be poetry again.

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Originally Posted by bouquin

I do not know if the 'God' that is mentioned in the book is the Christian God. Perhaps it just again a 'poetic way' of referring to morality and human goodness. But if that be the case, how come the boy tries to talk to God? (second to the last paragraph). But then he finds that the best thing was to talk to his father... This seems to give the idea that the 'God' here is really somebody or a spirit out there that the boy can talk to (it's just that he prefers to communicate with the spirit/person/memory of his dad) and not goodness and mercy which one rather lives and shows and not talk to. Or perhaps 'talk to God' here is meant to be poetry again.

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I got the impression that the 'God' isn't the Christian God. For me all mentions of 'God' reffer to pure faith, not to the one concrete religion. And 'talk to God' hasn't for me a literal meaning.

In the context of the novel what is your interpretation of the phrase talk to God?

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Originally Posted by Agatha

I got the impression that the 'God' isn't the Christian God. For me all mentions of 'God' reffer to pure faith, not to the one concrete religion.

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DapperDrake
Perhaps it just again a 'poetic way' of referring to morality and human goodness.

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Yes I agree with both of you. I think that God here is meant more as an image of hope or goodness and not in the God of any specific religion.

That the child should believe in a God could mean that he still has faith/hope.
On the contrary the old man Ely has lost hope and doesn't believe in God. I like the sentence he says:

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There is no God and we are his prophets

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Virgil
Actually it's the height of literature to combine poetry and narrative.

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As far as poetry is concerned (and here I must admit that I am poetry ignorant) I always associate poetry with beauty and I really like the fact that he uses poetry to tell such an apocalyptic story.

The contrast betwen these 2 concepts makes the book even more powerful.

I dunno, I made it past the meeting with Ely this morning, and if Virgil sees allusions to Robinson Crusoe, I think McCarthy is playing with post-apocalyptic movie tropes. The Day After comes to mind. Night of The Living Dead. Even an honorary nod to 28 Days Later. Maybe he is toying with a bit of Stephen King as well (The Stand), which is very much crucificixion and resurrection themed--McCarthy making a point to downplay this--and a bit of Dumas? The bunker reminds me of the Count's cave, which also very nearly stretches credulity

Yet I am not entirely satisfied, and in comparing this to Doris Lessing's Memoirs of A Survivor, Ms. Lessing's tale is even more ellusive as to what causes her dystopian decline, yet it is a more frightening tale to my mind, more relevant to our early 21st century crisises.

Despite McCarthy's skill, the consistently deadpan tone is a tad monotonous, and I still don't think it is grounded enough. We could have been given a few more cues about the unraveling.

What I do like is what McCarthy does to enforce the metalic sterility of this world. The translucent beast in the father's dream, the cart, which makes me think of metal, the gas station, the ash, the snow, the blackness-- in a way this is a way of living life continually blinded, not being able to see through obscurity.

The cannibalism makes me shrug though. Doesn't reach me.

The allusion to Robinson Crusoe deals with the abilty to improvise and survive.

I think the wife actually mentions the living dead allusion.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

The allusion to Robinson Crusoe deals with the abilty to improvise and survive.

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Not disagreeing. I just don't remember much about the classic, and I am googling now to refresh and draw any further comparisons.

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I think the wife actually mentions the living dead allusion.

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Yes, I think some dialogue before the "coldness gift" but don't feel like skimming back to get it. :p

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Why does it bug you that it's poetic? Poetic and story telling are not mutually exclusive. May I mention that Homer, Virgil, the Beowulf author, Dante, Milton, and really so many more used poetry to tell their stories? Actually it's the height of literature to combine poetry and narrative.

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I don't think it does bug me that its poetic, I think that's one of the things I do like about it in fact. don't get me wrong I think its a good book technically I just don't much like it.
What does bug me, and I've said it a couple of times now is the unrealism of the apocalypse with no justification, I realise that's an integral part of the way the story is written and I'm not saying it should of been done differently... it just bugs me.

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Originally Posted by motherhubbard

We hear stories of shipwreck or other extreme situations where people have to make a choice. To survive they must become cannibals. It is very hard to think of. I know that it is a common practice among some cultures to eat their dead. It’s not part of my culture and so it certainly sounds horrific.

Some of the people in this story lost all humanity. They lived to satisfy their own needs or wants if possible. In that respect the world may be more like the book than the landscape suggest. I feel that it would be better to be dead than to loose one‘s humanity. I suppose that either way it is really death. Is humanity something that can be regained once it has been lost? I don’t think so. I think it would be hard to live with the monsters of one’s past if humanity returned.

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Maybe that was what the boy's mother felt, that mankind has lost all sense of humanity. She said that they were 'the walking dead in a horror film.' That's why she gave up.

I am not saying I don't like the book, though I suppose I will debate selling it back to someone on Amazon, but if this is Cormac's version of post-apocalyptic allegory, I don't have much idea what for. He has offered nothing new but for making the fall of civilization seem as routine as cultivating land for new crops. The boy's compassion would have killed him had the father not sustained the strength to fight for their survival as long as he did. The line between the father, son, maybe the mother to some degree, and the human flesh eaters seems a thin one to me.

And yes, the fish is one of the more intricate Christian symbols, but I think Cormac means to say that the life force itself is a mystery beyond the encompass of any knowledge.

I also think that yes, he was writing this against type as well as alluding to type, and what I mean by that is this is a quiet dystopia. King's The Stand and the other narratives mentioned are nearly manic with hysteria. Cormac's minimalism cuts across that grain with some effectiveness.

I also noticed that the bleakness begins to subtly recede once daddy finds the ship. We have brown and brass tones of the sextant, the man's gray and yellow parka, the patterns on the fish.

Good book, but disappointing to me. I expected more and figure I should put Blood Meridian away for a year or two til I get over McCarthy's latest rise in public consciousness.

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Originally Posted by Jozanny

I also noticed that the bleakness begins to subtly recede once daddy finds the ship. We have brown and brass tones of the sextant, the man's gray and yellow parka, the patterns on the fish.

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You're right, good point:) :thumbs_up .

It's like at the begininning the tones are greyish, metallic and foggy creating an oppressive and suffocating atmosphere.

Then when they get to the sea you can almost imagine the scenes as when your shooting with your camera set on the sepia mode.

And then at the end, the last paragraph, is green and fresh. Makes you want to fill your lungs with some fresh air.