What if there was no god?

Here is an interesting treatise on the philosophy of Sir M. Iqbal (the Poet Of the East) and Spinoza
Those interested may
click on this link:: http://www.allamaiqbal.com/publicati...w/apr04/03.htm

OK people, lets calm down. Everyone has different beliefs, why can't we just respect that? How many wars have been started over people with opposing opinions? Until we learn we are all equal, regardless of our differences, this problem will never be solved.

Laff, and in this case, what our opinions differ mainly about is whether or not I have read Spinoza:

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(Mazhur: ) Niko, although the quote was a transpositional error, it confirms your wrong judgment, argument and knowledge in the subject. It's now no use arguing further as you havnt read Spinoza or other philosophers for that sake. Bye

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just bringing that up although it will not be faced by mazhur probably.

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or other philosophers for that sake.

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goodness.

May Scher indulge me a second please?

Nic you are a dear friend whom I have received again as one from the dead.

maZhur, you and I share poetry space quite often.

I am certain we three know the ways of monkeys and fruit.

Now Monkey N has decidied that he will eat his fruit in peace, and no longer argue with monkey M. But as he gets towards the rind of the fruit, feeling that to be worthless enough, he heaves it in Monkey M's dirrection. Monkey M growls, but Monkey N just shrugs and points to the uneaten fruit as if to say, "I did no wrong."

Monkey M also decides to stop the food fight, but he cannot abide the seeds. So using his mouth like a bean shooter, he fires the seeds at Monkey N's face. Monkey N protests, but Monkey M holds up both hands showing them clean. "I did nothing!"

Well, it doesn't take a genius to see that the two are going to look as bad as if they had had a knock-down, drag-out, smash-the-tray, food fight. It isn't how you word what you say, it's what you say. If you are sorry, apologize and mean it. No harm is done in being wrong, it's in staying wrong. Sometimes the bigger man is the one who can turn the other cheek, and refuse to be drawn into a pointless argument.

I care for both of you.

God Bless

Pendragon

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Originally Posted by Metanoia

OK people, lets calm down. Everyone has different beliefs, why can't we just respect that? How many wars have been started over people with opposing opinions? Until we learn we are all equal, regardless of our differences, this problem will never be solved.

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Do you really believe that purely speculative, metaphysical debate over the internet will spark war?

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Originally Posted by Dark Star

The big bang is not an explosion of something from nothing. It's more like a balloon expanding from very small to very large.

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Of course, but if time and all matter only existed a few moments before the big bang, something had to come from nothing at the point where time started.

jesus shut up. the ontological pickle can never be solved. thats why its a pickle idiots. the most fundamental idea of religion is that god has always existed; the most fundamental theory of physics is that niether matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. science says that matter always existed, religion says god did. both are the same answer, and that is no answer.

Please do not personalise your comments.

If you do not find any posts/threads interesting, please feel free to ignore them.

And while you are at it, please do not make the mistake of confusing a creation, a man like myself, with the creator, Jesus. I am unworthy to be called by that name.

God Bless

Pen

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Originally Posted by thechampion

jesus shut up. the ontological pickle can never be solved. thats why its a pickle idiots. the most fundamental idea of religion is that god has always existed; the most fundamental theory of physics is that niether matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. science says that matter always existed, religion says god did. both are the same answer, and that is no answer.

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What about chaos? It is generally agreed that the universe is progressing from a fairly orderly structure to a uniform, simple one- like a tower crumbling. If we accept this, then we must also accept that the universe has an alpha and omega- a super-structured beginning and an ultra-chaotic ending. The universe cannot have always been as it is now- even the moon is escaping its orbit.

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Originally Posted by weepingforloman

What about chaos? It is generally agreed that the universe is progressing from a fairly orderly structure to a uniform, simple one- like a tower crumbling.

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Oh and maybe you can give some source why such a theory is "generally agreed", and by who it is "generally agreed"?

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Originally Posted by Auriga

You start out by asserting the fact that you're an agnostic, because you find no practical reason for believing the existence of a God or other such supernatural being. However, you begin to delve into the possibility that all religions may have some validity in their claims, but they're all missing the bigger picture, implying your belief that there very well may be a God or higher power, watching and, potentially, judging our actions based on our mis-understanding of his "teachings".

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You don’t seem to make a distinction between “God” and “higher power”.
That distinction was the point of this.
While “Karma manifest” (the manifest “force” of Chaos Theory or The Butterfly Effect) shares many of the attributes that are ascribed to “gods” of different religions, there certainly something it lacks – personhood.
My God is not an entity. It does not have cognizance, intention or consciousness.
I do not hold a belief that a cognizant God exists – that, however, does not necessarily make me an atheist.

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Originally Posted by Auriga

I'm just curious if through the act of writing that extremely interesting post, did you begin to question your own beliefs and were you, in a sense, creating (maybe subconsiously) a new philosophy for yourself?

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Actually, it started out as an attempt to flesh out the spiritual beliefs of a character from a book I’m working on, and the more I delved into it, the more I realized that I was talking about me and the beliefs I had been building over many years of searching.

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Originally Posted by Auriga

In either case, I was very intrigued by your response, and it was certainly thought provoking, regardless of which stand point you decide to sway with.

I was particularly interested in your visual display of how all the religions of the world may only be potential shards of a larger truth that they are too stuborn to work towards. I, too, have always shared this view.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by weepingforloman

Do you really believe that purely speculative, metaphysical debate over the internet will spark war?

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Of course an internet debate will not spark war. I was MAKING A POINT. Fighting over our different views and beliefs is not going to solve anything, whether its an internet debate or a real war. And why not start by respecting each others opinion on the lit-network? It's a step in the right direction. But I suppose you just wanted to start another fight.... It's o.k I forgive you, I'm not going to start a war over it. :-D

Excuse me if I am being a tad frank but I think the only post in this entire thread worth reading is the one made by one_raven on the first page. Considering one_raven follows a religion I chose not to adopt since my faith in God is blind (you may contend I'm brainwashed), I'd be the last person to acknowledge the logical nature of his post in addition to its shedding new light on a timeless controversy.

The rest of the posts here are either self-evident, too self opinionated to validify, or overtly wtritten to proselytize.

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Originally Posted by Metanoia

What if you found out with absolute certainty, that there was no god? No god, and no heaven or hell. (really think about this!) Would the knowledge that there was nothing after this life awaiting us, change the way you lived your life?

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If God does not in fact exist, it would not change my life one bit. Look at all the dead poets and authors we read today. I have bore a child and he is my sense of immortality in this world. I like to think that I have touched many peoples lives for the good and I hope to continue to share my opinions, experience and wisdom with others. It wouldn't bother me one bit.