Post-Is Jesus really God?

Brother Muhsin may Allah guide us all to right path. And gather us in paradise with all his prophets.

rufioag i dont think u read my posts dont you?
You asked me to rewrite what i wrote already, while i read almost of your posts.

You said the father is greatest than the son because the Father is in paradise and son on earth, where is your clue for this explanation, God is not relative to something, if God create something better than other we cant say God is greater if he relaited to the best thing or less if he is relaited to the less good. Greatness of Father is absolute thing, and is Jesus pbuh is God then his greatness cant be misured according something he created. Beside if you read the chapter where Jesus pbuh said this phrase you will find that he was talking about Father, they asked him what is the way to reach life, he answered them that he is the path to God, he is the way, does this mean he is God? every prophet is the way to God, Moses pbuh is the way to God, Noah, Abraham, Isac, Ismael, David, Solmon peace be upon them and all prophets. At time of Abraham pbuh he was the right way becuase he got the right massege, at time of Moses after chainging massage of prophets pbu them before him, Moses became the only way because through Moses pbuh we can know what Abraham pbuh said and what all prophet pbuh said, at time of Jesus pbuh after people chainged massage of Moses pbuh, he became the only way because only with the words and massage of Jesus we can know God (not with the changed massage) and can know Moses and Abraham and all pure prophets pbu them all. Then they ask them to show God he respond them with words that mean who saw me (Jesus pbuh) saw the Father, he wasnt talking about seeing with eyes, because no one see the almighty God in this life, but the more important thing is to understand God, to believe in what he sent, in what he said, in what he ordered, in thinking good about God, in praising him, in believeing the pure peophets (not believing that Lot pbuh was drunk and made adultery with his own doughters, not in believing that Solmon pray to stones, not believing in Jacob that he fight with God, or David that made adultery with the wife of one of his soldiers). ANd he say then than God is greater than him, because its true, Jesus pbuh is man was created in a miracle made by the only almighty God.
If you read also in same chapter you will see that the Father does greater things than Jesus pbuh did (Jesus pbuh did things by his Father not by him self) not only what he did infront people through Jesus pbuh.
There is no one verse that show Jesus pbuh is strong as God or can do miracles alone.

If you have read my previuos pastes u wouldnt write about John 3:16.
The word BEGOTTEN, i saw that you wrote in with big letters, its important word really, because if someone is begotten from someone then he must be in same nature even if they will be 2 persons.
This words was CANSELED from nowadays bibles, you can find it in King James version but not in bibles used in these days, Who canceled it? scholars for sure. Why? because first Jesus is not the begott son of God, second Begotten is an action of animals, it need sex to be happened, and such word cant be used to describe God. This what happen when they cancel in so scilent way the words, cant be seen people will use it, even the phrase with begotten word preachers still using untle these days to preach, while it was vanished, Jesus pbuh is not Begott. Perhaps the answer will be it doesnt infleuence the fact that Jesus is God as usual. Here we must use brain not emotions, thats what i meant.

Trinity, when the principle verse that describe was canceled you said it doesnt infleuence trinity (we cant find in all bible this word, after John1 5:7 was modified by SCHOLARS). Dont know why always when someone explain trinity he begin to give examples: eggs, sun ( light,heat,radietion; but they are not 3 suns they are one, do you see how they play with words, but all 3 are part of sun), sky, geometric shapes, if trinity is the only result that you can get from reading bible, then mention the verses that made you arrive to this result (unlogic result). A user arrived to conclusion that Father is not only one God (dangerous phrase) after a long paragraph explaining trinity. Every one give a difference explination that kill others explinations and complicate things and arriving to conclusion or 3 gods or 3 parts of one God.
Always they say God died for us, who died? Jesus, ok did Father died? no, did Holy Spirit died? no. Mary is mother of God, why is she mother of God? Jesus is her son, Is she mothe of Father? no, is Holy Spirit is her son? no. Dont know which language is this.
Rufioag explain with your simple words trinity.

Paul, always Paul, where is Jesus?
Who is Paul? Paul was the 1st enemy to the followers of Jesus pbuh. once when he was walking (once he heared voice and didnt see light, once he saw light didnt hear voice, once he saw light and heared voice) and then became christian and even BECAME PROPHET, why? because he said so. And he began to get words from God.
All you gave is verse from Roman words of Paul, Jesus pbuh was circumcised, Paul canceled it (who gave him authoroty?)

Mathew 19:17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
But Paul has another opinion.

Here in chrismas my friend went to a party in center of the city, he made a little video, then when he was back he said to me come and watch what they said, then i saw in the video that there was a lady with microphon, and was talking to the public who is wearing red underware? and then she took her underware above pants and said i got one ( here in christmas people wear red underwears it will bring luck). Another friend said to me that he drink like a mad person (first miracle Jesus pbuh did according bible was changing water to wine). Sure the lovers slept toghether, disco all things, but how many where in church in that night, the night in which God according you was born. No preist talked against these things, every one dance drink in yards shouting. Do you know why all this happened, because every one believe he will get into paradise because Jesus died for him becuase no good deeds make them enter paradise, what ever they do is not important Jesus pbuh did all for them, no respect in that day, at least in that day for thier god, this what happen when you carry this thoughts, you cant say its right or wrong, because not doing right or wrong will make you enter paradise but believing Jesus died for you.

Crucifiction of Jesus is not logic from the begining, first if God love humanity he can simply forgive Adam and Eve pbu them, they mistaked, but thier children dont carry thier sin, not logic, not fair, beside God before he create Adam he knew what they are going to do, and from begining earth was prepaired, God doesnt play and create things because he feel lonely or to show his glory, God is wise, almighty he know what will be and what was. You cant say God COULDNT (this word cant be used with God) forgive humanity, and then the poor Jesus pay for all.
As i wrote before sacrification need 3 parts, one who accept sacrification, one who is gived as sacrification, and the one who sacrifice. Son of Adam gave sacrification to God, so he will be pleased with him, so and every generation after doing bad they present sacrification to God or in religious events . If God couldnt forgive and he need sacrification, how it would be that he killed him self so he forgive, who is the one who accepted the sacrification? the one who died? the one who died killed him self so he could forgive people? Logic? who gave the sacrfiied Jesus? God gave a sacrifice him self to him self? logic?
About sacrification we can talk about it and see if Jesus was really sacrified.

I would like to hear something about the canceled verses, or modifeid vereses, contraddiction. and how u could untle now use them to approve things u believe while the bible is chainged (the unchangable word of God). Or you behaive like they werent written at all or heared said it doesnt change any thing, but perhaps the base of belief also changed like all others.Beside all canceled modified added verses touch the base of christianity: trinity, begotten, prophecy (like the canceled one in Mathew), sexual language, history.
May Allah guide us all.

My apologies if you believe that. I do read them but sometimes have a hard time following, this is why I asked you to rewrite the question you asked in a way that was easier to find agian. Once again, my apologies.

Its ok, i am the one who must appologize for thinking such way, glad that u read, perhaps i write long posts.

Brother Muhsin sorry if i didnt write my name, you can call me shield&sword ;) niiiiiiiiiiiice to meet you,

Muhsin and Shield> In the light of your recent posts, I will have to ask you to make your points clearer and avoid simply quoting verses or other websites in your posts please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muhsin

Greetings,
It's in this forum I'd asked a question as: is Jesus really god? Some weeks passed, but unfortunately ended up without a single satisfied answer that can convince me to do believe that yes he is or not.

---

What kind of answer are you looking for anyway?

Personally, I never really understand why someone asked such question. If you then became satisfied that you finally be able to decide to believe or not, so what?

In speaking of THREE EQUAL PERSONS WHO are EACH, wholly GOD, there is no anomily to reckon with. The FATHER never emptied HIMSELF. The SON emptied HIMSELF, but this does not mean HE nullified HIS DEITY - HIS emptying involved humble submission to HIS EQUAL. A woman is no less than her husband. If the couple has children, the father may keep working and be head of the household, while, as a concession to serve the care of children, the mother sets aside many rights of adulthood to act as mother. She entrusts her lot to her husband in so doing, living off of hie provision to some degree, yet her work for the children is a replication of her husband's own parental concern that the children have a good mother, no less than her own original sentiment enacted (if he is a godly father). The LORD JESUS CHRIST, being spoken of in Scripture as the WISDOM of GOD, in feminine cases grammatically, did in an infinite way what many a great, self-sacrificing mother does. Her acting in this concessional way does not weaken her husband's worldly connections, nor her ability to regain what she laid aside later, once a mighty work has been accomplished. Great is the Work of the SON, which proves the Virtue of the FATHER, in that the SON acted in concert with HIM in Heart.

Stop quoting verses??!!!! We are talking about relgioun, we are not going to throw them behind our backs and talk from our minds, are we?
Sites were to give example, sorry if it wasnt leagal to put sites. Youo can all go to Protestant church and catholic church and buy both bibles and check what i said, dont enter in sites if you want. ( before i wrote wrongly that catholic and protestant have 2 varses more in bible, i am sorry i meant catholic and orthodox, protestans dont haav 13 and 14 of Daniel.
Verses i quote show so clear that they were fabricated and changed, my idea is clear. A seriuos verses were fabricated, and they present the base of christianity, if there is something not clear i will try to make it more clear.
Beside if we are not going to use verse then what we are going to use, its religious talk, and verses are best who can talk.

The question of where Jesus pbuh said i am God or worship me, because in every relgioun God present him self directly in so clear way, because God is base of religioun, and if you read verses of sending Hello from God in Paul's writings you will find names, so clear names, check it. While one single verse that Jesus is God, all what we saw is canceling dangerous verses, trintiy, begotten, son of God, prophecys.
While we see so clear that Father presented him self as God in more than one verse, and that Jesus pbuh is massenger.
Thats why its not logic to worship someone didnt present him so clearly. Go back to posts before.
About trinity, In your example father and mother they are 2 persons, are there 2 Gods son and Father? beside, If God is The Father and the son, my question simple, DId the Father died? Did the holy spirit died?
In every example you give you will arrive to the conclusion or there are more than one God, as in example of now, or they are 3 parts as you said that the Father is not the only one God. Always priests say The Father is whole God so and Son is whole God, so and Holy Spirit, but they are not 3 Gods they are one, While you said Father is not the only one God (so clear, or there are more than one God, or Father is part of God, there are no other choices, you cant create third choice to explain this phrase).
Try to use the verses that made you arrive to the trintiy. You said that its the thing that you will conclude trintiy, please show me verses, and how you concluded.
I say again if there is something not clear please point it.

A note to everyone:

Please keep cutting and pasting verse from texts to a minimum.

"These forums are not here for preaching, or attempts to convert, nor promote other religiously affiliated websites."

Sword and Shield, please understand that no example can perfectly explain a belief and understand that sometimes an example that makes sense to one person will not be relevant to another.

"Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." (Isaiah 48:16)

ve-'atah adonay YHWH shelacha-niy ve-rucho

How can God simultaneously exist as both singular and plural? It is a logical impossibility if God were restricted to the three dimensions of space and one dimension of time of our physical universe. However, the attributes of God, given by the Bible, provide a reasonable explanation of how this paradox can be resolved. God transcends time and space(this is biblical) and therefore cant be restrained to our knowledge of our physical universe.

But i have concluded once and for all.

My point was that trinity every one explain it as he like, not only here i saw explinations. Only wanted to asy that there is no one definition that gather all christians, some say they are parts, some say they are three complete but not three they are one, and watching the explination of the second opinion will arrive to that they are 3 parts, or they are 3 persons (gods). My point was that trinity verse gone, and any one who take the bible that people use nowadays and read it (wihtout having previuos opinions, or knowledge about trinity or that Jesus pbuh is God) he wont arrive to any conclusion of trinity, or that Jesus pbuh is God, especially if he know that seriuos verses vanished.

Me too learned more and more through this thread, i searched more in bible and learned new things. All i hope that you didnt feel any offence Rufioag or any christian here, or attacking your religioun, because me too believe that Jesus pbuh is equal to Muhammed, and believe that he is one of the greatest prophets, and his birth was a miracle made by Allah ( if Allah say to something be and its, he is not son of God, he was an alive miracle of Allah), and i believe that his mother Mary pbuh is one of the greatest women on earth she is pure and vergion(first miracle in islam that Jesus made was that he talked when he was baby and showed that his mother is innocent from what people said about here (that she made adultery) all in Mary chapter in quran 19), i believe that Jesus pbuh had a book from God called vangele (Muslims dont believe its what we have nowadays). So all what i wrote wasnt to attack Jesus pbuh, and ho could attack him or any prophet of God they all are pure and most honest they didnt mistake or were drank or made adultry God protected them, we pray to God that he gather us all with his prophets in paradise. At the end i say even if i believe in Muhammed peace be upon as prophet and refuse Jesus peace be upon him as prophet then i am out of islam and wont enter paradise, same thing if i refuse any other prophet that Holy Quran talked about or didnt talk. May Allah guide us all to right path.

No offense taken Shield and Sword. Just as you adamently(really) believe that Jesus was a prophet equal in status to Muhammed and that the Holy Bible has been changed, I strongly believe that Jesus lived life without sin and represents the 2nd part of the Trinity. You are clearly entitled to your beleifs and your points were well taken. I honestly cant explain all your questions becuase I have never asked them myself. And, just as you searched for answers, so will I.

Rufioag only i pray that Allah guide us all to right path, only my advice in searching is to use compleatly the mind, and consider all parts, not to leave emotions contol us. Only adviiiiiiiiice ;) . was nice talking, a little bit strong , but nice. I think me too cncluded here.

That is good!

Ok.... Here goes, for a third time.

There are amazingly interesting views on this in Sigmund Freud's

The Future of an Illusion.

It's a book. It's literature, actually. This forum is entitled "religious texts" I believe, so... this post should be ok.

Nothing else about the Freud. I won't say anything at all...

I love Jesus. Jesus is also a great guy, thought I'd throw that in there too...

I've just re-read my post, from the top to here. THIS ONE SHOULD NOT BE EDITED. I AM SURE OF IT. DON'T WORRY WITH IT, I ALREADY CHECKED IT OUT. IT'S FINE.