Atheists....

Then how can either one of us be right if we cannot prove or disprove the existance of God or even life after death? Point we believe what we wish to believe and for me I have my own proof but I could not prove it to you nor should I. That would be stepping upon your toes and that is not proper for me to do. I do not think you will have consequences after death for not believing in any type of God or idol. Unless you committ murder before you die then that is a different story. Belief for me is giving to power for growth of one's self and even in a higher being or not. I do want to thank you all for the insight and I am learning more each time I visit. :)

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.

"Why cannot life have both purpose and nothingness? Why do we think so one dimential when the world is not? Otherwise why have life at all if there is no purpose, no meaning, and nothing awaits us after death? Life is never just one single thing I have had patches of nothingness along patches filled with purpose. I do not think a few words can truly describe life but that life is a ongoing learning process and I for one will enjoy as much as I can." - Ancestor

I'm a little confused as to how you jumped from saying life should ecompass both nothingness and purpose and then rather quickly accuse nothingness for making life pointless. Somehow I feel the idea of living for the sake of living has been lost. Its cropped up a few times, and I was glad to see this view brought forth. For what is wrong with living in a way that makes one happy and content? Nothing, it would be foolish to say there was some great flaw in living in such a manner, providing such a life abided in some sense an ethical and moral code, and followed laws. Who could fault peacefulness and such a contented existence?

Seize the day, live in the moment, live as if it will be your last.

While the last may be a bit dark, the message holds true. Live in the now and don't worry about what might happen later. Be content in the knowledge that you're a good person. Why does it matter if there is nothing after death, it should not change the way life is percieved. Life is a precious state that should be enjoyed and lived as happily as possible, with the thought of what may come after saved till the occassion arises.

After all, these questions will all be answered when we die. :P

I meant that we all have spots in our life where we feel nothingness and there are spots in life where we feel purpose. Nothing is clear in the beginning our journeys and I surely for one have felt both but you are live your life as happy as you can be.

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Originally Posted by Satirical

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.

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Everything that might be proof of god might equally well be a trick.

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Originally Posted by Satirical

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.

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thats a stupid thing to say, going on that basis i could say that Seattle is actually a piece of plastic as no-one has given me solid proof that its there and i have not been there.

You can say what you will, it is meant for one to keep an open mind about everything. If you would rather agree with dogma then that is for you. If you would rather not than that is equally up to you. The problem with this subject is the attempt at being universal when universal was as incomplete a topic as the "soul".

No strong convictions. And maybe somewhere there is a piece of plastic named Seattle, or maybe it is not, either way that would not be the problem would it?

As far as proof for God being a trick then it may very well be and it may not, once again either way there is no point in such a circular discussion involving it. We have a tendency to view problems as problems if they are unsolvable, instead of soluble. Some things in life are part and the base of life. Or even the origin lol.

There is no evidence of God's existence, and it helps to look at things objectively. God's existence is a circular (invalid) argument:
"P1" is Premise 1
P1: God inspired the Bible
P2: Everything the Bible says is true
C: God exists.

One cannot accept this argument if he does not already believe in God. After reading the Bible objectively, as a piece of literature without religious significance, it is hard for me to understand why anyone can take the book seriously, let alone literally. The things that God does in the OT are incredibly cruel, sexist, and "bad," especially comparing the laws and actions to our modern society.

Take Adam and Eve, for example. Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge and God punishes them. First, God must have planted the Tree in the first place, and second, what does that say about Him except that he wants his followers to be ignorant?

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 explicitly states that disobedient children can be lawfully murdered.

And how about poor Job, his life destroyed because of a little game between Satan and God? Does God really not care about human life?

I also do not feel that Jesus' actions make up for his Father's abuse of Humanity. Thousands of years before Jesus was Gotama Buddha, a far more benevolent teacher without an abusive Father. Buddha's teachings, also, did not result in widespread violence, sexism, and corruption thousands of years later.

As for Creationism/Intelligent Design, the idea is compatable with anything. "God put the bones there." It's a circular argument, again, and is wholly unacceptable if the listener doesn't accept God's existence in the first place.

Just as a side note, where I am from everyone seems to believe that the greatest thing about the Bible is that it was written by several people, but is as one. I bring this up because you brought up Job, and to this I say, Come on people! That story is written completely different from the rest! It is incredible what people accept as they have been primed as it were. Another thing about it being so concise is that the church fathers excluded many "apocrapha" that they conveniently thought was not divinly inspired. Once again, Come on! Check this out misanthrope, you may enjoy it as much as I do http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/

they don't believe in anything. They believe NOTHING!

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Originally Posted by Satirical

Just as a side note, where I am from everyone seems to believe that the greatest thing about the Bible is that it was written by several people, but is as one. I bring this up because you brought up Job, and to this I say, Come on people! That story is written completely different from the rest! It is incredible what people accept as they have been primed as it were. Another thing about it being so concise is that the church fathers excluded many "apocrapha" that they conveniently thought was not divinly inspired. Once again, Come on! Check this out misanthrope, you may enjoy it as much as I do http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/

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It doesnt matter who wrote which section, I know it was written by several people, but Christians believe it just the same. I am referring to the widely-accepted, traditional Bible, not the omitted texts. Not only that, but you are avoiding my arguments. :flare:

It's not true that atheists believe nothing. I believe what is earthly, objectively provable, and externally valid. I tend to be very skeptical of people who say "God told me," and I will NOT jump into his bandwagon to give him all of my money for a free ticket to Heaven.

There is a big misconception that atheists have inadequate morality, and this is simply not true. Atheists do good things purely because they want to and find satisfaction in it, not because a Big Brother/Santa Claus figure is watching their every move. In fact, many studies found, such as the Journal of Religion & Society and The Science of Good & Evil by Michael Shermer (Copyright 2004), that the more religious a person, or a society as a whole, is, the more likely he will do bad things, or the more "social ills" that society will have. The JoRS can be found here: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

I was unaware that we were in confrontation. I thought that I had made it clear that the discussion was circular to begin with. Even with the misunderstanding, I say that we are still in agreement. You have said nothing that I have not thought myself. I was merely pointing out something humorous to me in the context of the discussion.

You are right by the way, it does not matter who wrote that compilation of ancient myths, but I guess my sarcasm was lost in the writing. Either way, I do agree.

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Originally Posted by yellowfeverlime

they don't believe in anything. They believe NOTHING!

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'Nothing is better than nothing' - Samuel Beckett

Read the Tao Te Ching.

I don't think atheist believe nothing...I mean I think they do believe in friendship, love, humanity.. just don't believe in divine being...

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There is a big misconception that atheists have inadequate morality, and this is simply not true.

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I'm a theist, but I do agree with you there Misanthrope

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Originally Posted by MiSaNtHrOpE

... Atheists do good things purely because they want to and find satisfaction in it, ....

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So when they do those good things, they are doing them purely for themselves. Good.