D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

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Originally Posted by Janine

Where did this progression lead? In Lawrence's own life, it lead to a sort of 'quest for the truth', and an exploration in his novels, stories, poems, writings, etc.; and a forming of his own ideas on eternity or life after death.

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From what we've read in these short stories, truth seems very important. So many of the characters appear hopelessly deluded. When do you suppose this quest for truth started?

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Originally Posted by Janine

Well, I think after reading this several times, I understand what you are getting at, Quark. I do agree that Cathcart does resist or avoid the awareness of infinity, and finally, his own death; only at the end does he seem to give in to the idea, when death cannot be avoided. I see this very much like Lawrence himself in his final hours. He fought death for nearly his entire life and finally death overcame him, as it must all humans. I think this whole story is a statement of avoiding thoughts of infinity and then having to eventually accept these thoughts. If you follow the progression of Lawrence's writings and mind and thoughts on infinity and death you can see how this would lead. Lawrence also had an idea of a utopia and at sometime he had to know this would never be realised in his lifetime. I think this is true of Cathcart but also there is a strong element in the story of irony. This irony I see as Cathcart's own search in life for perfection and his inability to compromise or modify his 'perfectionist views' caused his downfall and demise. He truly brought on the lose of island #1, island #2 and was left to the desolate and undesirable island #3, which would be his tomb. BY the end this human had totally alienated himself from other human beings, and resides in a most 'unnatural' state of isolation on island #3. As we suggested before, I think it was Dark Muse, the three islands could represent stages in a man's life, the seasons, even the great circle, cycle of life. Nature is a huge element to this story.

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Yeah, I sort of moved away from my original claim that the "infinite" is a kind of antagonist, but now I'm starting come back to it. I think it works, somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Janine

I think in a broader sense this story says much about human tendencies and how people react to things and situations.

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Unfortunately, we never really got to talking about this part. I mean we never really got specific and talked about individual choices and reactions that Cathcart had. We took a rather abstract look at this one with concepts like the "infinite" or utopia.


So, what's up for next month?

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Originally Posted by Quark

From what we've read in these short stories, truth seems very important. So many of the characters appear hopelessly deluded. When do you suppose this quest for truth started?

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Quark, I read your post last night, but I did not know how to respond any further. Maybe my poor brain is just tired by now and of hearing about this story...:lol: Q, you must really think I am briliant. ;) :lol:
I will attempt my best to answer you.

Q, do many of the characters seem deluded? I think this might be more true of the later works of Lawrences (MWLI is a much later story, in Part 3 of the Short Story series, I believe). His early works are more a slice of life or whatever. Whatever Lawrence writes I do believe he is very honest and forthright with his depictions, sometimes brutally so. I do however, think his later period of short story writing take on a more surealistic quality. Another example of this would be "Rocking Horse Winner" and, also "The Man Who Died" - his novella.

'When do I think Lawrence's own personal quest for truth started?' Is this whe question you are asking? I think if one reads the biographies, it began very early on in is life. Perhaps it began after his mother's death, but seeds of it certainly were evident prior to this significant event in his life.

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Yeah, I sort of moved away from my original claim that the "infinite" is a kind of antagonist, but now I'm starting come back to it. I think it works, somewhat.

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You sure like to waver, something like Lawrence himself.:lol:
I think Lawrence uses the work 'infinite' and other words directly related to the concept to make it appear to be a big part of the story and theme. I don't know why it has to be labeled the antagonist. I don't see it that clearly. I think another antagonist is the man himself, Cathcart. As they say "we are our own worst enemy". I think many of the decisions C makes are to his own detriment and downfall. So one could say he also is the antagonist.

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Unfortunately, we never really got to talking about this part. I mean we never really got specific and talked about individual choices and reactions that Cathcart had. We took a rather abstract look at this one with concepts like the "infinite" or utopia.

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I am not sure if that is entirely true and if it is you could have brought up this aspect of the story yourself, I think you would have received many responses. In throwing it out there, we certainly would have discussed it in more detail. I do recall talking about Cathcart's poor choices and his intolerance of anything that did not go as he expected it to or wanted it to. This lead to the idea of his own will. I think he did try to force his own will onto nature and the occupants of the island and it did not workout, of course, so he abandoned them. His expectations were those of a 'perfectionist'; nature is unpredicable and so is life; therefore Cathcart was unable to accept these changes or these obstacles that presented themselves to him; one could say he did not even try to confront them and solve his problems or overcome the obstacles of his environment. He, likewise, became 'intolerant' of the other humans about him; therefore, eventually bringing on his own total isolation. I think the story is about much more than merely a man being deluded. I think this story works as a lesson to all, who think they can isolate themselves and exist solely appart from other human beings. As the saying goes - "No man is an island".

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So, what's up for next month?

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I have been thinking about this, and reviewed a few stories last night. I wondered if we could read/discuss a simplier and shorter short story this month. I wanted to go back to the early ones and perhaps do one I read last time I was trying to choose the story; I will re-read it again, of course. The story is called:

"The Shadow in the Rose Garden".

Even though not a happy love story, still involves a lost/found love, a rose garden, and I thought this would be good for this particular month with Valentine's Day approaching. Let me know what everyone thinks?

Sounds interesting

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I guess we're just about wrapped up with The Man Who loved Islands. Since I'm currently reading The Aeneid and I did want to participate in the Book Forum read (I think it will The Name of the Rose) I was hopig to take a break next month from this short story. I'm a little overwhemed. But if really want to, I think I could squeeze it in.

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I'd love to read a new story with you guys, but since I couldn't joing you for the whole discussion, you're probably more overwhelmed than me here. So anyways, I'll join the discussion whenever you guys are ready and have the time :D

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Originally Posted by Janine

I am not sure if that is entirely true and if it is you could have brought up this aspect of the story yourself, I think you would have received many responses. In throwing it out there, we certainly would have discussed it in more detail.

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I'll try not to be so narrow-minded next time, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Janine

I do recall talking about Cathcart's poor choices and his intolerance of anything that did not go as he expected it to or wanted it to. This lead to the idea of his own will. I think he did try to force his own will onto nature and the occupants of the island and it did not workout, of course, so he abandoned them. His expectations were those of a 'perfectionist'; nature is unpredicable and so is life; therefore Cathcart was unable to accept these changes or these obstacles that presented themselves to him; one could say he did not even try to confront them and solve his problems or overcome the obstacles of his environment. He, likewise, became 'intolerant' of the other humans about him; therefore, eventually bringing on his own total isolation. I think the story is about much more than merely a man being deluded. I think this story works as a lesson to all, who think they can isolate themselves and exist solely appart from other human beings. As the saying goes - "No man is an island".

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Yeah, I would agree that "a man deluded" is probably an insufficient summary of the story; but, I do think that he was deluded. That was some of the point I was trying to make earlier when I pointed out that Cathcart's original plans were based on misguided selfishness. The problem with Cathcart isn't so much that he fails to live happily on an island. It's that he wants to live on an island in the first place.

You do remind me, though, that some of Lawrence's characters do differ radically from Cathcart and that the stories are not all about some deluded person. "White Stocking" was much more about the complicated relationship between two main characters--neither of which were deluded in this sense. I was more thinking about "The Odour of Chrysanthemums" which had a similar storyline to this one.

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Originally Posted by Janine

I have been thinking about this, and reviewed a few stories last night. I wondered if we could read/discuss a simplier and shorter short story this month. I wanted to go back to the early ones and perhaps do one I read last time I was trying to choose the story; I will re-read it again, of course. The story is called:

"The Shadow in the Rose Garden".

Even though not a happy love story, still involves a lost/found love, a rose garden, and I thought this would be good for this particular month with Valentine's Day approaching. Let me know what everyone thinks?

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Is this one online somewhere?

You can find it here

http://www.literature.org/authors/la...-07/index.html

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

You can find it here

http://www.literature.org/authors/la...-07/index.html

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How do you reply so fast? Literally, by the time my screen refreshes with my post, you've already responded.

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Originally Posted by Quark

How do you reply so fast? Literally, by the time my screen refreshes with my post, you've already responded.

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Quark,
:lol: Dark Muse should be on Jeopardy - I bet she would be great on the response buzzer! :lol:

You also can find the story complete text right here on this site:

http://www.online-literature.com/dh_...ian-officer/7/


Quark, I don't see where you were being narrow-minded at all; what are you talking about? Were you joking with me?
I am not sure how 'Odour of C' relates to 'MWLI' but I will think on that idea.

Well, if it alright with everyone else, let us say this discussion is closed on MWLI,.... and so we can progress onward to the next story.

Then let it be

SHADOW IN THE ROSE GARDEN

We can all begin reading it, so that, hopefully, we can post by the first of February. Enjoy reading everyone!

LOL probably becasue I am already here on the computer, not doing much of anything else, so as soon as I get the e-mail notification I respond

Shadow in the Rose Garden? Sounds good. Will start reading it on the weekend. Too much assignment work these days!

Can we delay the start of the discussion until Monday?
I don't have time to read it this week either; the weekend would be better, like Hira plans on doing.
Monday would be great for me.

That is fine by me

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

That is fine by me

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Thanks, DM
You were fast on that trigger again! :lol:

LOL I know it is sad

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

LOL I know it is sad

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What too much time on your hands and too much computer, right? I have the same problem but I should be ignoring computer and doing stuff I really need to be doing (real life beckons!).