Quote:
Originally Posted by Redzeppelin
See, you clearly don't understand atheism or Buddhism.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Buddhists don't have a god.
Ergo, Buddhists can be atheists - and most of them are.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redzeppelin
See, you clearly don't understand atheism or Buddhism.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Buddhists don't have a god.
Ergo, Buddhists can be atheists - and most of them are.
You answered your own question. Say spiritualism refers to belief in a supernatural entity or dimension. God is a supernatural entity. Isn't it logical, therefore, that if athestic Buddhists do not believe in God, then they believe more in the spiritual dimension?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redzeppelin
I think I asked a silly question that I wasn't fully clear on. Excuse, please.
God was created by man in his own image. Before we were aware of our mortality, we didn't build churches, we didn't pray, we didn't imagine some omnipotent "eye in the sky" watching us or watching over us. People are religious because they lack the intellectual resources and personal determination to work out ethical questions on their own.
Why would someone who wrote fourteen hundred years ago, two thousand years ago or five thousand years ago have more wisdom than people who live today.
And why are churches ond of the most lucrative businesses on earth today?
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And why are churches ond of the most lucrative businesses on earth today?[/QUOTE]
Wow, I knew I was at the wrong church. Lucrative?? I've been around Protestant churches on and off over 30 years and have only known a couple of ministers that owned their own homes. SO where is this rich and well off establishment so I can put on my best presentation of a fallen saint that needs picking up? Where oh where--please tell me beacuse it sure isn't in Ohio.:yawnb: :yawnb: :yawnb:
Incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
Would you mind identifying this era of our history? When exactly were people unaware that they eventually would die? I figured that would catch on pretty quick (within at least a generation or so, don't you think?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
Wrong again. Unbelievably wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
Because wisdom is not a product of technology, "civilization" or whatever it is you think we have that they didn't. Another wrong idea that we moderns have some sort of lock on wisdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
You must be in the wrong church.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpspur
Blokes like this have no troubles - cars, Harleys, Caribbean cruises...
He is by no means alone in being a very wealthy preacher. Never heard of Benny Hinn? Or noticed that the Roman Catholic Church is one of the richest organisation on the planet?
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
I'm amazed at how often I get a sense of deja vu on this subject - I covered exactly that this morning. God is everything we would wish him to be - the ultimate big-daddy who not only kisses it all better, he also lets us live foreever! Who wouldn't love the guy?
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, man has always had gods. The human construct of the Abrahamic god/s is quite simple to acknowledge, but earlier than that, there were certainly religions which dealt with death as one of the subjects. That's one of the finer ironies in christianity - the only way to eternal life is through Jesus and god. Yeah, right. Thousands of years earlier, the only way to eternal life was through Osiris, Baal or other deity. There's nothing new in christianity, people have worshipped gods since they first realised they could think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
I'm just loving the fact that a creationist denies that this is true, because I can prove, beyond any doubt that the more intelligent a person is, the less likely he are to believe in the sky-daddy, and conversely, the dumber he is, the more likely he will be to attend a church, be a creationist, an Amway salesman, or all of the foregoing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
I know some very clever christians, all of whom have a far different opinion of god and creation from fundies. The level of gullibility and doublethink required to be a creationist ensures that the lowest intellectual group will fall for it. Some of them may appear quite smart on the surface - I know a fundie with an IQ of 190, he has appeared on tv as "the human computer", yet he is a complete loser with no personality and is therefore able to practice doublethink on himself to ensure that he nevers asks questions, thus preserving the only social group he will ever fit into.
Amen to that, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
Do we still mill corn and wheat by hand? Do we travel by donkey? Do we go to the toilet, or do it on the side of the road? I think that in this, at least the Amish are honest - they just ignore the past thousand years or so.
Because it keeps them in business. Money buys television time which sells product and brings in new believers who tithe more money so more tv time can be bought, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivenor
The Old Testament sets the financial scene quite nicely for religion when the sky-daddy himself tells the Hebrews:
I can't be bothered finding the precise quote, but that covers it exactly - god has always loved cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by YHWH
Actually, you're completely wrong, wisdom is acquired through experience. Humans today have the collective wisdom of thousands of years of science and society to start from. Children leave school with more wisdom that people used to collate in all their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redzeppelin
This is another point fundies miss entirely - there is 10,000 years of human wisdom and knowledge to refer to, yet they only refer to one book, which hasn't been updated for 1700 years or so.
I knew I shouldn't have made the joke about lucrative churches. I also need to stay off this forum. BUT to be serious. I am a believer in the Lord Christ as a personal Lord and Savior for sins to anyone who believes in Him which makes him available to anyone whether they have wisdom or not. I also know I'm a weak Christian in the faith due to my predilection for doing a Jonah--thinking I have a better plan then God for the "way it ought to be." If you think about the 10,000 years of recorded history for wisdom and the fact that the ONE BOOK doesn't need updating to get the lesson across should be a telling testimony to its authority. Professing themselves to be wise they become fools. Best to stick to the basics. With respect and no real interest in batting back and forth. I leave that to the more erudite amongst us. Faith, people, faith. All else is dust ands ashes.
mtpspur, I've been staying away from the religous texts forums for quite a while, but I've noticed several posts lately, and had to say. To Atheist - Do me a favor...please...TONE IT DOWN. I agree with many points you make, but you can take it too far. The intelligence of a person is not related to their belief in a higher being. Faith is the major thing. I would have quoted mtpspur, but its just above my post. Its true, the ability to believe is paramount to faith.
Only part right, experience and reflection can lead to wisdom, but experience alone will not lead to wisdom. What else can be involved? Gee, I don't have my all knowing recipe.Quote:
Actually, you're completely wrong, wisdom is acquired through experience
I know that people feel passionate about these topics, but discussion is one thing...I wonder why religous topics give me a headache.
Couple of nice coherent posts for a change!
I have no problem at all with faith - as I've said, I know some extremely clever christians who accept pretty much all scientific truths, including evolution, without any trouble to their faith at all. Those kind of people, who see a philosophical need for a god and have faith that he exists, I can admire. I can make an excellent case for god myself within those parameters, I just don't buy it.
What irks me, and it's not just in religion, is wilful ignorance - the refusal to accept that gravity works, physics rules the physical universe and that the laws of mathematics cannot be broken. Creationists are among the worst at trying to avoid these things.
And yes, mea culpa, my patience with them is thin!
I'll tell you that I was raised Roman Catholic, and quite a stink was made when the diocese spent 3 million dollars on a glorified garden. I know that there is a lot of things that could have been done with the money, but a garden doesn't seem high on my list.
Revise: "Couple of posts [that agree with my worldview] for a change!"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
"Clever" apparently, because they agree with you. The people you described above do not sound like Christians at all - at least Christians who truly know who God is and recognize their need of Him. People who see God as a "philosophical" need have equated Him with some sort of intellectual "vitamin." I question that type of "Christianity."Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
Since I rarely see you make any real case here (but I do see you dismiss other people's) why don't you lay out your "excellent case for [G]od" - I would love to read it.
You know little about Christians - perhaps you ought to hang around some and listen to them on occasion so that you might stop making such ill-informed statements about them. We acknowledge science's veracity in many areas (Christians who deny that gravity works would be denying the existence of God - because He created gravity). Your comments are based largely on your non-stop begging-the-question of the truth about evolution. Once again: you have a theory, with some pieces of "evidence" that appear to support that theory. Congratulations. Quit pretending that evolution is equal to gravity - to do so seriously puts to doubt your credibility as a spokesman/woman for evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
We try to avoid things that are flat-out mistruths if we are able to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
We forgive you.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
Thank you, B-Mental.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Mental
I think this is a suggestion we can all benefit from.
Please do not personalise your arguments and/or post off topic comments.
And The Atheist, I think it is very lucky for us all that the patience of the Moderators of this Forum is not so 'thin'.