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What people? :lol: I think it will basically be just the three of us....but that is ok with me. Even two will work, don't you think? Another story that sounded good to me in the book was 'Dreams' - I will try and check the stories out tonight. No rush on this end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Yes I think the three of us would be fine. It worked well enough when it was just me and Quark
DM, sounds just fine to me. I will review some of the stories over the weekend. Maybe you could also read a few and see what you think. If Quark is too busy, I can choose one or he can if he would rather do so. Q is the boss here. haha....
Sorry to disappear so suddenly. I've been busy with this questionnaire Scher sent me which has something like fifty questions in it. When I signed up I wasn't expecting it to be quite so onerous, but I'm almost half-way through it now. Hopefully I can finish tonight so we can get on with the Chekhov story.
As for picking one, I think either "Dreams" or "The Country Doctor" would do well. I'm a little less fond of "The Trousseau." It's not a bad story, but I think there are better stories that we haven't done yet.
That is ok, Quark, I just wondered where everyone ran off to; either I could not find anyone or else I was not looking in the right threads. Maybe some people are on vacation. I know what you mean about forms. I hate them, too. I had this important paper had to be send in about some medical business and it really irritated me; I was relieved when I retrieved the papers I needed to copy to send and finally put the whole business into the mailbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I will check the stories out this weekend. 'Dreams' sort of intrigues me, because I am an avid nite dreamer. Of course, that title might throw me way off, but we will see. Either one sounds like a good story if you say so; you should know since you are the Chekhov expert here.
If I can just pop in here, we do get significant cues as to Varka's mental state. She is emotionally and mentally exhausted by her poverty, by the past incident of her father dying on the floor with his "boo boo boo". The father not only prefigures the infant, but I'd say his pain and death are the actual monsters Varka wants to defeat, and tries to, in transferring the monstrous onto the infant without truly realizing the horror of infanticide. I've read a significant amount of Chekhov, and "Sleepy" is a superb little gem. It is sparse, dramatic, real without being maudlin. Varka is little more than a young girl herself, therein the tragedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
"Dreams" is an interesting story. I would be glad to discuss that one. As for the other story, which doctor story is that? There are two. One is called (on LitNet) "The Doctor" and the other is called "A Doctor's Visit." Which one are you thinking of? Does it involve a doctor visiting a family that owns a factory, or is about a conversation between a doctor and mother who's son is dying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Yes, by that point in the story we know quite a lot about Varka, but what I was trying to say earlier is that Varka's reasoning isn't clear to herself at that point. The two paragraph that DM and I were discussing were told from Varka's perspective, and hence we're not privy to her inner reasoning. DM didn't like this so much, but I argued that it was important for the effect. If we were more privy to Varka's reasoning, than the declaration "That foe was the baby" wouldn't be as chilling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
Varka might hate pain and death in the abstract, but don't you think her real antagonist in this story is her masters? They're what's keeping her up. When Chekhov says that she looks around to find what's keeping her up, don't you think Chekhov means the masters? Varka, of course, fails to see that, however, and she blames the baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
I completely agree. It's probably best story from that part of Chekhov's career. I've gushed about it quite a bit already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
:) Hi again Quark, I guess it was 'The Doctor's Visit'...hahah...I did not read it yet...sounds cheery;) :( ...Quote:
"Dreams" is an interesting story. I would be glad to discuss that one. As for the other story, which doctor story is that? There are two. One is called (on LitNet) "The Doctor" and the other is called "A Doctor's Visit." Which one are you thinking of? Does it involve a doctor visiting a family that owns a factory, or is about a conversation between a doctor and mother who's son is dying?
Let's do 'Dreams' then - that one is short and sounds interesting to me. If you say it is 'interesting' I will believe you. I think it would be fun to discuss that one and hopefully not too taxing for the time left to us in this month. They don't kill any babies or small animals, do they? :( hahaha
Okay, if DM doesn't have any objections I'll go ahead and post an introduction tomorrow. There's no rush as far as reading the story, but I do want to get the intro out as soon as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
No, there isn't any infanticide or wanton killing of cute animals--nothing too objectionable. It's a pretty humane story, so feel free to read this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Ok I will see if it it in my book, and if not look for it online
You can find it on LitNet (http://www.online-literature.com/anton_chekhov/1189), if nowhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
That is the beauty of interpretation.;) I agree that the family who keeps Varka doesn't seem to have any compassion. Chekhov seems to have neither the space or time to supply it, and so it is up to the reader to supply it ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
At the risk of disturbing Janine, however, I admit I have a dark fascination with toddler/infant vunerability in literature, and "Sleepy" is one of the best of its kind I've come across. Eliot's Adam Bede is another but with a much more common occurrence, one which is still prevalent in our day, that of a pregnant girl who disposes of the newborn as a consequence of what *we* as a society deem the immorality of sexual activity before marriage.
Bede starts slowly but if one stays with the novel Eliot packs quite a wallop. I almost like it better than Middlemarch. An instructor told me once that Ibsen had such a play or story too, but I haven't been able to ferret it out on the basis of what he told me.
Now Doris Lessing, of whom I am a huge fan, has one where she pushes the envelope, and the child itself is the *Monster*, but I haven't read it yet, and she published it before she was awarded the Nobel in 07, but I have some idea of how she'd treat the issue.
Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Quark
It's not just that they have no compassion for her, though. It's that it's their abuse which is keeping Varka up. Therefore, when Varka searches for what's keeping her awake we, the readers, know that she's looking for the masters. That isn't to say that death and poverty are not weighing on her mind--far from it. You were right to point to those causes of misery, and I liked how you linked the father and baby. However, the misery that those cause doesn't keep her awake. Pain and death are actually what make Varka want to sleep. It's the masters who prevent this, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
You must share DM's dark streak. I don't know how I felt about the whole thing. Ambivalent, maybe. I thought the effect was great, but if it could have been created without infanticide I think I would have preferred that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozanny
I'm starting to read "Dreams" now, so I should have something posted on it soon.
I have to disagree with you there. I think without it, the effect of the story would have been signifcinatly lessoned. Perhaps the same point could have been gotton across, but it would have been a "taking the easy way out" Personaly I like a good story that does not cop out of a tragic ending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark