Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll get cracking :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll get cracking :)
You can find many of these books... or similar volumes on art history... in most good used book stores for considerably less than new.
Well... let's start posting some work by some of the most interesting artists who have been active over the past 30 or 40 years.
Francis Bacon falls at the extreme of that time limitation. He first garnered some degree of attention in the 1930s and 1940s, but really didn't gain any real notoriety until the 1960s when he was oddly clumped along side Pop Art. Bacon's work was profoundly influenced by the fragmentation of Picasso, by film and photography; icons and altarpieces... and by his own personal life. By his own admission, Bacon was into the Sadomasochistic Homosexual scene... the "rough trade", and his erotic obsessions are given clear voice in his paintings where coupled with the forms and colors and themes (especially the crucifixion) of religious icons and altarpieces, and images of struggle and violence drawn from photography, the paintings have been recognized as a comment on the horror and violence of the 20th century:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ptychsmall.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...c62_center.jpg
The triptych, Three Studies for a Crucifixion, completed in the early 1960s and currently housed in the Guggenheim Museum, NY, is quite possibly, Bacon's strongest work. Bacon employed the triptych format... historically reserved for religious altarpieces... quite likely inspired by the German Expressionist, Max Beckmann. The painting employs a rich, painterly handling of paint, a brilliant glowing red that undoubtedly alludes to blood and to the background of many crucifixions, including that of the Flemish Renaissance master, Rogier Van der Weyden:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...io/th_VDWf.jpg
In the central panel, Christ's martyrdom is echoes in the agonized torture of a figure writhing in pain. The bed is blood-spattered and the body contorted and having the appearance of rotting flesh.
In the left panel, we are given a glimpse almost as from the point of view of the tortured figure on the bed. Looking down his own contorted body, past his legs, stand two onlookers... figures in suits. We are left wondering whether they are friends... faceless bureaucrats, or his torturers. I find myself leaning toward the idea of the horrific bureaucrat ala Franz Kafka or those who organized and documented the "final solution".
In the right panel we see a hanging cow carcass which undoubtedly alludes to Rembrandt's famous painting:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ghtered-ox.jpg
...as well as that of the more contemporary Expressionist, Chaim Soutine:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rcasofBeef.jpg
But there is also a suggestion of the horrific "still life" paintings made by Gericault during the height of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ult_limbs3.jpg
Bacon has admitted a certain fascination with meat... and the butchers' shop. He has spoken of the hanging carcass as perversely akin to the image of the crucified Christ: so much hanging, dead flesh.
Bacon remained obsessed with images of horror and violence staged in an iconic manner. In the painting, Triptych Inspired by the Oresteia of Aeschylus, humanoid figures are staged in a stark setting not unlike the artifice of a classical Greek play. The central figure... Agamemnon... sits hunched over on his throne... behind him the typical "cloth of honor" often hung behind images of the Holy Virgin or the Pope. Blood runs through the open doorway on the left as the image of the Fury hovers in the air. On the right... a headless muscular figure suggests the "hero", Orestes.
Perhaps the most disturbing of Bacon's triptych's is his Triptych- May-June 1973:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...triptych73.jpg
In this painting we are presented with an iconic view of the death of Bacon's long-term lover, George Dyer. Dyer is seen rushing to the sink in the right panel where he vomits. In the central panel he staggers in the dark... beneath a burned out single light bulb... the shadow hovers over him like some great bird of prey... until he collapses... and dies on the toilet. Only bacon with his cruel sense of irony could have appreciated... and painted the pathetic death of a loved one in such a manner.
Bacon's paintings are certainly not "pretty"... but they are stunningly gorgeous... "beautiful" in aesthetic terms. I had the chance to see nearly the whole of his major works at the retrospective recently staged at the Met in NY. The colors absolutely glow... and there is a freshness to the work that appears as if it were just painted yesterday and was still wet. He's not an artist whose work I would want hanging in my living-room... but then again, I don't want to look at many of Goya's paintings everyday, nor watch Schindler's List repeatedly.
The next artist I offer will be something quite removed from the harrowing aspects of Bacon.
You haven't addressed my points regarding mass manipulation and control that has been clearly presented in The Century of The Self I posted.
I want to end our discussion since I feel uncomfortable when my points are ignored.
I don't really see how these have anything to do with the purpose of this thread... or with Modern Art.
Second, I looked at private life of a few artists. I have found pedophilia, incestuous relations, prostitution, contracting syphilis, and alcoholism. It is not a secret. I am glad that I have done it...... everything become crystal clear.
It is the art I judge and not the artist. Caravaggio pandered homoerotic images of young boys to high-ranking clergy with similar tastes, and was a known murderer. That doesn't effect my assessment of this painting:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ggio_death.jpg
Bacon is a new one on me and judging by what you presented I must say he was "out there".
I can't quite discern what is depicted in the first triptych example, comes across as a smoked oyster.
While you prepare for the next artist, here’s some miscellaneous time filler.
Regarding books for Pierre, there is one that I picked up several years ago titled Medieval Art – Painting, Sculpture, Architecture 4th – 14th Century by James Snyder.
Philosophical quotes:
I tend to defer to Will Rogers
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. "
Something related to your next period.
I had visited “The Modern” museum of Fort Worth last year. I wasn’t aware of what was currently on exhibit before entering. As it turned out they were featuring paintings by Richard Diebenkorn (1922 – 1993) including his “Ocean Park” series. I was not familiar with Diebenkorn prior to that visit, but I was impressed enough that I can at least recall his name along with a lasting impression of Ocean Park No 54:
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...painting-6.jpg
I was drawn to the palette of colors used and their tones as they are similar to those I instinctively use in watercolor. Beyond the use of color, there is a subtle three dimensional “layering” aspect that is interesting parts of which appears as folded paper.
Another by Diebenkorn I admired is Cityscape:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cape_I_360.jpg
I see it as creating tension along the well defined edge between urban sprawl and the unspoiled landscape on the right. I was drawing similarities, between Diebenkorn and these images I rediscovered from Charles Macintosh (from the name the painting game):
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...th_MPclue1.jpg
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ntingFeb14.jpg
Speaking of The Modern, Tadao Ando’s architecture ain’t half bad either:
From museum website
http://theteenartistproject.files.wo...rthmodern1.jpg
http://www.themodern.org/
I quite like Diebenkorn's work myself. He... and the whole of the so-called California/San Francisco School of Figurative Art are far more rooted in the colorist tradition of French Modernism... Matisse, Bonnard, Degas, Monet, Vuillard than in Picasso, Cubsim, Surrealism, Dada and Formalist Abstraction... which had a far greater impact upon the paintings of the New York School.
One needs only look at these paintings by Matisse:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...errace1901.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._matisse51.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...matisse100.jpg
... to see where Diebenkorn's Ocean Park series is coming from. It may also owe much to the light and landscape of California... so different from the urban environment of New York... that led the California painters to look to a different group of artists for inspiration.
Other interesting painters from the California School include:
Elmer Bischoff:
Bischoff merged elements of the rich painterly brushwork of Van Gogh, Soutine... and DeKooning with the color and everyday subject matter of Impressionism and Post-Impressionism... and a nod to Edward Hopper's views of the American landscapes and cityscapes:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-047-E.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...xjpg-550x0.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rofile1960.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...52d0be91_z.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...46ca3692_z.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...40jpeg_700.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...an_On_Sofa.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...schoff_L-3.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hoff_TN-11.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...566x56-p51.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_CA6ZZZXI.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_CAYDM3MV.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Bischoff_1.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...sson_EB_p0.jpg
Bischoff's paintings... like most of the works of the California School... were incredibly juicy in their paint handling:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rbischoff2.jpg
David Park:
Park was another leading figure of the California School. His paintings employed an even broader use of the brush than Bischoff... and a subject matter suggestive of Social Realists such as Walt Kuhn, Isabel Bishop, and Raphael Soyer:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_12am235.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...david-park.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...-TuttArt32.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...1954SFMOMA.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...IIh1qa1cnp.jpg
Paul Wonner:
Wonner was still another leading figure in the California School:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_055.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_202.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...io/th_0531.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._199745_1b.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...7714wonner.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...io/th_Gods.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...m-filtered.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ON-017-500.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...nnerWoman2.jpg
Rolland Petersen:
Another senior figure in the Bay Area Figurative School, Petersen focused as much upon pattern as on color making him stand out among other painters of the group:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-042-E.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-068-E.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._Rowboat_1.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...397070-001.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...d-petersen.jpg
Joan Brown:
The California School was somewhat unique in that a number of the leading painters were women. Joan Brown was part of what is considered the second generation of the California School of Painting. She studied under Elmer Bischoff and was married to the sculptor, Manuel Neri. Many of her early paintings allude to art historical/Biblical themes merged with references to her personal life/inclusion of friends/lovers/and her dog.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_12am234.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...1c47a10f_z.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...8769840472.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB4.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB5.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB6.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB9.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...an_brown20.jpg
You gotta appreciate the clown who tries to copyright his photographs of someone else' paintings. The Supreme Court, by the way, ruled that photographs of original art works are themselves not "original" works of art and cannot be afforded copyright protection.
Another marvelous female painter of the school is Linda Petersen:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...in-kitchen.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...fruit-bowl.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...o/th_lg_81.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ning-water.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/.../th_studio.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_tea.jpg
The impact of the San Francisco/Bay Area/California School of Figurative Painting... which was at its peak during the 1950s and early 1960s... continues into the work of any number of contemporary artists.
Kevin Bean's figurative paintings are based upon non-descript family snapshots. These are filtered through the haze of memory... losing all details but gaining the "perfume" of atmosphere and mood wrought by his expressive use of color:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ging-Light.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...uation-Day.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...-Listening.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_IMG0045.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...3-60x50-oc.jpg
Another marvelous female painter working in the tradition of the California School is Kyle (pronounced Ki [with a long I] Lee) Staver, a New York artist who merges elements of the French Intimist (Matisse, Bonnard, Vuillard) tradition... which was itself a major inspiration for the California School... with the painterliness and funky drawing of the Bay Area artists:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...days_paper.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rning_bath.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ggie_paint.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...fall_paint.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...selanterns.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_hammock.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8047/8...f61b9799_m.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8329/8...ecc9d0a1_m.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8...e0cf5fd5_m.jpg
Another interesting artist who has built upon the tradition of the California School is Stephanie Kim Frohsin, whose paintings owe as much to the graphic elements of Pop Art and 1960s psychedelic posters (another California art form) as to the Bay Area School.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8331/8...92248e22_m.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8...8c9821ef_m.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8196/8...077a14cf_m.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8...2773ccfe_m.jpg
My own work is far more traditionally rendered than the work of the California School... but I have long appreciated their paintings... and especially their mastery of an expressive use of color.
I had to read…...there was no free lunch at school. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by stlukesguild
I might add that I also suspect that outside of the quotes you found on the internet, you actually have never read Goethe. If you had... you'd be aware of his vulgar Walpurgisnacht as well as a any number of erotic poems that surely challenge his quote on "taste". Or one might alternatively suggest that it is likely that Goethe's concept of "taste" may not be at all in line with what you think of as "taste".
I don’t separate the work of the artist from his life.
I can be moved by erotic poetry written by a young man……but Goethe was 64 when he fell in love with 18 years old woman and 74 when he proposed to 19 years old. It is disgusting.
It reminds me about Luis Falero’s “Faust’s Vision"
http://img3387.imagevenue.com/loc555..._123_555lo.jpg
And Annibale Carracci, An allegory of Truth and Time , Royal Collection, London,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CA...e_(1584-5).JPG
But I will read his Theory of Colors and I totally agree with him that “personality is everything in art and poetry" So, I don’t throw everything in the garbage bin. :p
I don’t separate the work of the artist from his life.
I can be moved by erotic poetry written by a young man……but Goethe was 64 when he fell in love with 18 years old woman and 74 when he proposed to 19 years old. It is disgusting.
The inability to separate the artist from the art work becomes problematic when the individual bases their judgments of the artist's achievements not upon the art but upon their judgments of the artist's personal life. I think many might question just what gives anyone the right to set themselves up as the judge of the personal lives of others. Goethe is "disgusting" because he still had erotic feelings at 64? I guess that means Peter Paul Rubens was a real pervert, after all he married a 16-year old that he was passionately in love with at age 53... and went on to have a slew of children with her. And what of all those homosexuals? Ewwww! How disgusting. I'll never look at a Michelangelo painting again.:rolleyes5:
It is not inability but a choice. It is a big difference. Yes, for me it is disgusting for 74 old man to have erotic thoughts about 19 years old. I am a female and we may differ in opinion. However, my male friends are also disgusted but it. It would be not fair to put everybody into the same box.Quote:
Originally posted by stlukesguild
The inability to separate the artist from the art work
BTW, I didn't mention homosexuality and I appreciate Michelangelo’s talent.
True . . . but still, condemning someone like Caravaggio for being a murderer isn't that much of a stretch . . . unless you've taken the stance of Alex and become a complete cultural relativist. :D Even taking Caravaggio into account, does him being a horrible person devalue his art? I don't think so. But can it effect how we look at it? I do think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
How can you be disgusted by an old man having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old? Or even a 15 year old? Or any female who has reached puberty and is developing in ways that man is biologically and genetically programmed to find arousing? I suspect your male friends are just agreeing with you so you don't unjustly label them as perverts, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftil
Well, it is not just to have erotic thoughts. 74-year-old Goethe persuaded his friend, the Grand Duke Charles Augustus, to make a formal marriage proposal to 19-year-old Ulrich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
Where did I say perverts? Don’t distort my words. :yikes:
There are men who are locked in teenage mentality……..refusing to grow. :lol:
Yes, because associating the word pervert with calling someone disgusting for having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old is a real stretch.
I also find it ironic that you accuse others of being in a teenage mentality when you can't write two sentences before using an emoticon, a teenage behavior if there ever was one.
No, it is only your opinion and your interpretation of my words. I may say again I didn't’ use pervert. But if you want to distort my words and use as an argument…….I better go back to my reading. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
LOL! You perhaps don’t need to express the intensity of your feelings. I do. Please don't assume that everybody is like you.Quote:
I also find it ironic that you accuse others of being in a teenage mentality when you can't write two sentences before using an emoticon, a teenage behavior if there ever was one.
On a final note, images speak lauder than words.
77 year old Goethe, 3 years later after his marriage proposal 19-year-old Ulrich. :lol:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...jpg?uselang=pl
Lulius Sebbers, The portrait of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1826
Enjoy Litnet,
"The intensity of my feelings"? Are you serious? The only reason one uses emoticons is because they're unsure of the clarity of their language, or, in your case, to distort the message.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftil
Thanks for the picture, though. I didn't know what an old man looked like.
Wrong assumption…….Again. http://sanctumzone.co.uk/components/...s/facepalm.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/290.gif
Nope.
Enjoy LitNet.
People like you are the reason rape jokes are funny. You take serious topics and treat them with such totalitarian moral and social stances that you render the topic ridiculous; and comedy and satire become the only logical way of protesting such absolutist views, for how can you use logic when your opponent does not acknowledged it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftil
I guess, you haven’t read what I wrote…....or you didn't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander III
It is a serious issue when some men refuse to grow up. You may find many research about that subject. Perhaps, you would want to hide it. I don't especially when such behaviour lead to exploitation of women and children.
take serious topics and treat them with such totalitarian moral and social stances........I am afraid that you use words you don’t fully understand.:lol:
Immaturity is the incapacity to use one's intelligence without the guidance of another.
Immanuel Kant
She's a lost cause, Alex.
~
This thread is now closed due to... Well, I think it is rather obvious why.
Those who find themselves unable to show respect towards those who do not share their own views might like to consider not taking part in public debates.
~
StLukes> Please feel free to start another thread on this topic.