Yup :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Neely
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Yup :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Neely
That's right good. :party:Quote:
Originally Posted by TurquoiseSunset
While I am not against digital books, I do think a smart shopper can still find paper books of classics at crazy cheap prices by shopping only at Used bookstores and library sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I once went to a good library sale and walked away with something like 25 books for $15.
That's probably true to some extent. I enjoy hunting around second hand bookshops looking for unexpected goodies, as I suspect many of us do, but also there are times when I want a particular book there and then. Also you can't really beat free for price. It's not just that though it's the space issue for me as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkshadow03
As mentioned I'm also interested in using the dictionary and highlight features. Good practice when reading is underlining unfamilar words or phrases and look them up and so on, but to be honest I can't recall doing that for months and months. The dictionary feature will make it easier to do that.
It does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I have a Kindle Touch on pre-order. The 99$ price is insanely cheap.
As part of a generation who has grown up with the internet, personal computers, MP3 players, smart phones, digital readers, etc. I have refrained from buying an e-reader like the Kindle or Nook. My sister has a Nook and loves it for all the same (very legitimate) reasons people have posted here. But personally, I've never enjoyed them. There is something about the printed word that to me an e-book can never capture. The feel of the page, the sound it makes when you turn it, the smell, flipping through the dictionary to find a single definition, the dog-earing and underlining and annotating are all things I love. I like lugging books through the airport, having a pile next to my bed, tripping over them in the night. I have always been able to physically connect with a book and remember where and why I bought it or who bought it for me, when I read it and what I felt. You'll never have a loved one hand you an e-book with an inscription in it (Unless they add that feature, which would be odd.) Then there's the kinship that comes with exchanging books. It makes me feel like I am participating in something that mankind has been doing since the layman could hold a book in their hands and read it. I could go on. Perhaps these are sentimental or archaic reasons for my preference, just like writing snail mail, but they're the reasons I love the printed and written word. When an e-book can recreate the sensation of the tension in your fingers or emit the sound a cover makes when you pull it back for the first time, then I will consider buying one. A page is a depth that poses itself as a surface, it is water.
Regardless of my dislike of e-readers I completely understand WHY people buy them. They have their place and practical purposes. Hopefully they realize their full potential to disseminate knowledge and stories.
paper books definitely. there is nothing as delightful as sitting in a corner and reading a book.
It seems more likely to me that the Kindle will detect your WiFi router and then the download will start automatically - so it might look as if they're already on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I'm so backward that I only just got a WiFi router - and it didn't work with the first gadget I tried (a Sony Media Player). I ended up having to hardwire it to the router via ethernet. If you have problems, do not kick the router or the Kindle :brickwall.
Is the dictionary feature quick to use? I have visions of spend minutes scrolling left and right with the buttons. I'd like to just tap the word and the definition springs up - but Kindle doesn't have a touch screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Neely sat eating a cheese sandwich and recalled the days of Hugh Fernley Whittingstall and real bread and cheese as opposed to the cardboard and plastic he was now munching.
How things had changed from those halcyon days when people knew how to enjoy the good things in life. Those were the days of real books with genuine covers and pages, not the metal thing that he now held as he tried to read Oscar Wilde from its illuminated screen. Then there had been bookshops with real books stacked neatly on shelves, waiting for the avid reader’s outstretched hand, but they had gone and all that remained were the rows of Kindles to remind everyone that Big Kindle ruled.
He glanced out of the window at the large poster adorning the wall opposite; it read 'SHAKESPEARE IS RUBBISH! READ HARRY POTTER'. True, Big Kindle still allowed a few of the old classics to remain as examples of the decadent past but now they had mostly been replaced with the ‘new literature'.
Neely put down his kindle and went out into the street, where large hoardings showing pictures of Big Kindle lined the pavement. He made his way through a narrow alleyway to a little shop, and rang the bell that stood on the counter of the deserted room.
A little old man came from a room at the back and greeted him enthusiastically, “How are you Neely? I’ve been waiting for you as I have some interesting volumes that arrived recently.”
He led Neely into the back room and there, piled on chairs and a large table were stacks of books. Neely looked nervously over his shoulder, for to be in the presence of books was forbidden. "How much do you want for this one?” He said as he tenderly handled a copy of Icelandic sagas.
The old man gave a sardonic grin and said, “ Nothing, because you won’t be reading it where you’re going,” and with that, he opened the door to the kitchen and out stepped A.Mazon, the right hand man to Big Kindle.
“You’re going into room 101 for attempting to buy the old literature,” said A.Mazon, taking Neely by the arm and leadings him outside to a waiting car.
When they arrived at the Ministry for Digitalisation, Neely was taken to room 101 where he was strapped into a chair and subjected to his worst nightmare by being forced to listen to the Poet Laureate reading the whole of Harry Potter.
Four days later, he was released and went home to order the latest tome by JK Rowling for his Kindle. Big Kindle had won.
He loved Harry Potter.
:lol: Love the dystopian take on the Kindle, ha, ha. I thought it was going to end as I was electrocuted in the bath but never mind. Reading Harry Potter instead of dying in pain is a better end.:shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
I know, I know but there is really little option. I've got about another 40 years of reading so unless I come into a large amount of cash and can afford a bigger house and my own library, or I no longer feel the need to want to be able to consult a text again at my own ease, I must get the ereader. Besides there are many benefits as already expressed.
As it happens I'm going to see old Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall tonight talk about vegetables. :party: No seriously I am, I think he is plugging his new book, I'll have to forgo the author signature though, obviously...
I'm sure that there was a gasp of nostalgia when monks changed to paper from cow skin, or when the candle makers lost out to gas and electricity. There is little the individual can do in the way of social evolution, whether we like it or not, it's just like spitting in the wind you can't do anything about it.
I don't know. I think you just move the cursor over the word and job done.Quote:
Is the dictionary feature quick to use? I have visions of spend minutes scrolling left and right with the buttons. I'd like to just tap the word and the definition springs up - but Kindle doesn't have a touch screen.
Oh and thinking, I hate the smell of old books as I'm allergic to dust so they make my eyes and my nose stream like mad...
[QUOTE=Neely;1080396 Reading Harry Potter instead of dying in pain is a better end.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm....
Well guess what just dropped through the post about half an hour ago? Woo hoo!!!
First impressions are very promising. Very smart looking device, easy to navigate (even for me) and I've already got used to the features that I'm interested in using such as the dictionary and highlight/notes/bookmark functions. Very promising.
(To use the dictionary function during reading you just simply move the cursor behind the selected word and up hovers the definition, with the option to press to go into a full ramble. Very quick and easy to use.)
I have created my first folder into which I have put my free copies of Dorian Gray and some collected short stories of Maupassant and Chekhov. I'm quite a happy chap.
Apparently there is a three hour charge and then it should be OK for about a month, but it still lets your read/play with it while it is plugged in via the USB cable. Definitely the future of reading. Sorry Emil.
Edit: oh I also love the fact that it automatically remembers where you have been reading. This means that you can have several works on the go, if you want, and there is no fuss in regards to finding your place. No more losing bookmarks too.
Well, a balance of both, but being a college student, I've had to depend more on the latter.
Glad to hear you have received your Kindle and are enjoying it. I got one of the first available in UK and I believe later versions have a longer battery life, but anyway it all depends on how much you use. I dont get much more than a week with mine.
Well Enjoy!
Thanks Neely, I'm almost persuaded. I'm still worried about using it 'long term'. But to test that I guess I'll just have to get one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I just read that the Kindle uses the New Oxford American dictionary, with a choice for the Oxford Dictionary of English. I love my old Concise OED, so the Kindle having its big brother makes it very attractive.
Amazon don't have hundreds of Chekhov short stories for free, I notice. But Project Gutenberg do!
There's some fuss in the Washington Post about 'characters' uploading Chekhov short stories into Amazon from Project Gutenberg and making $ from the efforts of editors working for free. Fortunately Gutenberg has a Kindle option, and Amazon even tells you how to download from Gutenberg.
Haha! Brilliant Emil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
Neely, or to any other bathtub bookies, if you would have held off ordering your Kindle for one more year, the RD department has been developing the "Kindle Kanoe" and Nook is working on the "Nookie Dinghy" complete with dock cleats that attach to the side of the tub for tie off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Glad to hear you enjoy it.
I've had a Nook for nearly a year now. It is a nifty device. One great advantage over the real McCoy, is the ability to read outside on windy days and not having to worry about pages blowing over. However, I will never give up entirely on paper books for the many reasons Emil and others have cited above, but most of all to satisfy my lust for the smell of old paper. Perhaps e-book RD can add a scratch and sniff feature.
.
Thanks a lot. I wish I had got one sooner now, especially during university, it would have saved me a deal of time and money. Never mind. I'll see how long my lasts on a full battery then, though it obviously varies with how much you use it. However mine was fully charged after about 2 hours and you can just plug it into the back of a computer or laptop so it's not even a bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasider
Thanks I've just got The Idiot (been wanting to read that for a while) to my kindle from Gutenberg dead easy. Just download to your comp and then email it to your kindle (you get your own kindle email address). Yes the Chekhov short stories I've got for free are smaller collections on Amazon.Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
Oh damn, never mind, I'll just have to use those old fashioned paper things in the bath. How behind the times!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilliatt Gurgle
I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.
You raise several interesting points. I notice that you are posting from France where the dichotomy between technology and the arts is a major topic of the media. This is understandable because France has become digitalised more noticeably than other European countries and its social impact is proportionately stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Laumness
I don't think literature is admired anywhere more than in France where it is almost like a religion but, conversely, there are few peoples who have taken to digitalisation with more fervour than the French.
Much of what you say regarding the psychology behind the use of E-readers is true, but the lure of gadgetry, that is constantly being fostered by the companies that produce it, will most likely ensure the eventual disappearance of books.
We live in unprecedented times for both books and technology. This myth of building your own library from a careful consideration of choices is a relatively recent phenomenon. 100 years ago the literacy and finances did not exist for anyone but the well off to achieve. This perpetuated into the 50s and 60s when, whilst there were books available that were cheap enough, the reading habits of the lower classess were still not attuned to what can be possible. In our house we had few books, though luckily by the 70s, they were cheap enough for me to afford with my pocket money.Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Laumness
So we've had 50 years of books being available widely to a reading public, yet I recently read a report on Adult Numeracy where the statistics talked about children in households with less than 20 books being at a serious disadvantage. So there are a statistically significant number of households that have 20 books or less.
In my view anything that does give access to literature and any reading is good, because it won't - in Britain anyway - now be the cost of books, but the habits of reading that preclude collections in houses.
As for philistines and slaves - well there are plenty of owners of e-readers on this forum.
Edit: Oh and don't mention the bugs and stains to the obsessive/compulsives.:biggrin5:
Yup, a ten year old Penguin smells like a Penguin that has been dead for ten years.Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Laumness
Paperback publishers only have themselves to blame for the Kindle taking over - they should have ploughed some of their excess profits into publishing on acid free paper -and they shouldn't be charging top prices for authors that are in the public domain.
Easy for rich American to say. Neely and myself are Brits., our houses are tiny 'cause Brit. developers are especially greedy, our wages are small, and the climate is cold. 'Our library' can't usually stretch to more than two bookcases.Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Laumness
The average paperback is no better formatted than a newspaper. I have read excellent hardbacks and didn't feel any important difference between that experience and reading a (new) Wordsworth classic - it's the words that count not typeface or particular brand of dead wood (unless the paper isn't acid free and has been lying around for a few years...)
I'm not more attached to what I paid for - I'm as happy reading Dickens from the library as paying for a Wordsworth classic version.
The Kindle users in this thread aren't idiots. I can't see them downloading tons of free books for the sake of seeing long lists of titles. The complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, are listed on Amazon and the library database. Does that mean you don't know here to start?
I don't think that there was a dearth of books 50 years ago, in fact there were public libraries throughout the cities in the UK, and small towns were often served by commercial libraries run by chain stores and bookshops where it was possible to borrow a book for a nominal fee. There were hardly any books in my childhood home but I had access to a great quantity in the two public libraries that were equidistant from where I lived and I read literally hundreds of books during that time.
As an adult, I began to buy books that had become relatively cheap and kept those that had some literary value: storing them in bookcases while dispensing with the rest. I never bought a book on the strength that it formed part of a collection. It was simply that I wanted to read it and, if it were worth keeping, it went into a bookcase as a matter of course.
For all their obvious advantages, E-readers cannot replicate the sight and physical presence of books. If I go into someones home and see rows of books I can look at them and learn something about the character of the occupant. Whereas a small metal slab tells me nothing except that its owner might be as interested in gadgetry as in the literature that remains hidden within.
I agree, I think things were *better* forty/fifty years ago. I also didn't have access to many books at home, but the public library I visited as a child was built into an old manor house, with a reading room that wouldn't have been out of place in Downton Abbey. The books on loan were, mostly, pristine hardbacks - none of the tatty paperbacks that are now omnipresent in libraries. The librarians kept the place silent, and only let me use the adult section after an interview that determined I was ready to read at an adult level, and to use the facilities quietly and with respect. Now libraries are full of mobile phone users, screaming kids, and nosiy librarians (!) The council turned that wonderful library into a cash-cow tourist museum, placed the lending library over a supermarket, ditched the large number of hardbacks for a smaller number of rotting paperbacks, and didn't bother to provide a reading room. The old library was better than a Kindle :), but I wouldn't now dismiss buying a Kindle, you have to move with the times, don't you?
This reminds me of the debate we used to have on emails 15 years ago. Many felt that emails lacked the personal touch of hand-written snail mail and joy of receiving through the post and ladeeda. However, today all of us communicate through emails: who has the time and patience to wait, right?
Having an e-reader does not mean that we should burn our printed books or start making paper planes out of them. Just because ready-made frozen meals are available at the supermarkets, we do not give up cooking, do we? I love cooking and having a cooked meal but always keep couple of ready-made meals in the freezer for "emergencies" and I know that, on more than one occassion, I was grateful that they were there.
It is possible to enjoy both and e-readers are undeniably convenient and clever. Embrace the novelty while still cherishing the tradional.
Quote:
I don’t think I shall use the e-book because:
- the paper book is not only an object, it is a living object that has a smell, a distinct form, a body made of pages and a skin that is the cover; an object that grows old, with pages that become yellow, that are sometimes torn and stained, between which it happens you find a hair or a dead bug; an object that has an history, that you bought one time – and generally you remember when –, that you read in order to appropriate the content for your own use, and thus you are the proprietor of the book, not simply of an indistinct product, even if it is mass-produced; and being proprietor, you can make notes on it, you give a supplement of life; and being proprietor, you can hand down your books to your friends and heirs;
- the library is part of your history; for a well-read person, it is even the most precious part of the house; for that, you always find a place, otherwise that would mean your books have no value;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you can read in the same format, in the same conditions, a masterpiece, a newspaper and a trashy book: this tool of non-differentiation is a great danger for the idea of singularity of the work and of the author;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, you have access to tons of free books, but one is always more attached to what one paid;
- with a tool such as the Kindle, it is inevitable that you will download tons of free books, the complete works of Chekov, Maupassant, Dickens, Hardy, Voltaire, Balzac, etc., but will you read them? not sure, because when you have too many choices, you do not know how to start, and eventually you read nothing or almost, at least you will not read the books entirely and profoundly; because a good reader does not know what he will read in a month or in a year; he does not know what he will discover, nor what he will want to reread: it is absurd to make long lists of books you plan to read, as absurd as if you want to fix your future life;
- with those technologies, which are fast and changing, you will not have the patience to build a library one book after another, you will not have the concentration necessary to slowly absorb the content, you cannot help using all the possibilities of these technologies hic et nunc and acquiring many books in a short time; but have you ever read a thousand books in… let’s say five years? no, of course, rare are those who read over a hundred books a year;
- therefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.
Here is a photograph of one of my bookcases.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2272/s6301388.jpg
All of these are mine, minus half the pile on the left-hand side, which belongs to Mrs Neely. My other bookcase is smaller but just as crammed, in fact more so, with easily about a hundred of my kids’ books in front of rows of other books (more classics and about 50+ Agatha Christie novels).
Of these books there are a handful that I have not read and some that I have only partially read, but I would say that I have read about 95% of them, and some of them more than once (particularly the likes of Shakespeare and Wilde and of course poetry that you dip into from time to time).
Now, of these books I would say that they represent about 10% of what I have read over the last 16 years (I say 16 years because I only started reading at 17 and I am now 33). This is because I have bin bags of books in the loft (most of which are trashy novels from my late teen years and deserve to be in there) but also of course this doesn’t count the hundreds of library books I have read, the books I have given or thrown away, it doesn’t include the secondary literature that I have selectively ploughed through during my university years or the books now hidden on my other bookcase, nor the books on top of my wardrobe, nor the books I have placed on my dad’s smaller bookcase as a “loan”, nor the books that I have lost, or have sat under the chair of this computer, nor the pile downstairs by the sofa, nor on the fridge, nor hidden in stacks of other places etc, etc, you see the point. Now the Kindle, which came yesterday, has the potential to fit all of those in my coat pocket!
I don’t go on about this at all to try and boast in some adolescent manner about how much I have read or have at all, in any way, (in fact the more you have read the less you feel you have read), but rather to try and demonstrate the gravity of my situation when I say that I just don’t have space in my small, two bedroom, terraced council property of which four of us share. I just don’t. I cannot “make space”.
Now with luck I have about another 40 years of reading left in me, so the ereader wins hands down. It’s not even a contest, not even close. I can understand the nostalgia attached to books I really can, but in terms of practicality at least, it’s just not a contest on any level.
This I strongly disagree with. Technology, like everything else, is a tool in the hands of the user, to used correctly or abused either way. That same technology that you speak of is the same technology which allows us to express our opinions on here via the internet, (in my opinion one of the greatest achievements of mankind). Why not go back to the typewriter? Tap tap tap ding ding. Or the ink pot? The new technologies are the same instruments of power which allow people, right now, organise things like this:Quote:
[T]herefore, the readers of e-books are or will become superficial, philistines, slaves of the technologies, whereas the book is ideally an instrument of liberty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...london-assange
If there is anything the elites fear to keep their grip on power and wealth it is the new technologies...but back to books.
Seriously, in my opinion paying £8.99 for a rehash of a classic work, with a new front cover and mini introduction, where the author might have been dead more than 150 years, is nothing but a disgrace. There is not liberty there. The liberty comes with the reader being able to access thousands of out of copyright material as and when for free.
This doesn't mean that I'm going to get rid of my books of course (though Mrs Neely would love that). It doesn't mean that I'm not going to return to them again and again, I will, (I will primarily be reading them in the bath) but the Kindle/ereader, is absolutely the future and what a marvellous piece of technology it is too.
Yes we have to move with the times, even when they are not propitious, but I will abstain from buying a Kindle as I have just about read enough for my own requirements. I totally agree with the comment about the debasement of public libraries, which now resemble one-stop social help points as much as places for selecting and reading books. The one closest to where I live is housed in a very nice Victorian building which was due to be demolished and replaced with an absolute monstrosity, ironically to include a section for new technology. The current economic crisis has put paid to that thankfully but many libraries are being closed as local authority money begins to dry up and will probably be sold to property developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
[QUOTE=Neely;1080660] The new technologies are the same instruments of power which allow people, right now, organise things like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...london-assange
Or this.
http://youtu.be/grYliexnm0w
As you say, it can be used correctly or abused either way. Let's hope that we never have to go through this again although, the way things are shaping up, it doesn't look too good right now.
I have a kindle, and I love it. I am one of those strange people who needs all their books with them at all times - since I travel a lot this with real books is impossible but with a kindle it is the simplest thing.
As to Libraries, in my parents house we have a a library room full of books and with soft couches and armchairs as my mother reads quite a lot, but to be honest I have started to see books as only deco. When I was younger I would buy beautifully bound books with special papers and each page scented. I never actually read them, I only wanted them as objects of beauty in my room like all the statues and flowers and posters which I had in there. With a kindle a book is a book. You read for the book - it is rawer and purer, as with beautiful books I always find myself more interested in the actual physical book than the words. With a kindle I am not distracted by the book and thus can enjoy the literature calmly.
Neely, I have understood your lack of space, and that the Kindle should resolve this problem. But after having bought it, you said: “What have I done?” You felt there was something wrong. You guessed it was not just a matter of place, but that it would change many things.
You are perfectly right to say it is a shame to pay 10 € a classic work in paperback of an author dead 150 years ago.
You said that having access to thousands of books for free was liberty. I don’t speak of that liberty of the consumer, by which one can choose between several goods and possess them; I speak of the liberty by which an individual tries to understand, to evaluate and to act without prejudices, without being influenced by the powers, whether they be economical, political, ideological… Do you think you will be more able to have a critical mind towards the technologies with a Kindle? Will you be in the best disposition to read Jacques Ellul or Theodore Kaczynski if you read them on your screen?
You said the technologies can be used correctly or abused depending on the user. But there are inventions that are intrinsically bad, like the nuclear bomb. That’s not new: Ariosto wanted to throw the firearm in the abyss; for him, this diabolical invention was the ruin of values such as physical courage. Some will reply that you cannot stop the progress. Indeed, the technological society has its own rules that prevent it from reflecting upon the moral impacts of the technologies.
You said the Internet was possibly one the greatest achievements of mankind. I’m not so enthusiastic, although I appreciate many of its possibilities. If I were cynic, I would say the Internet makes the Earth smaller, spreads uniformity and destroys diversity; that it leads to an atomization of the society, each person staying behind his computer; that you find there much garbage and not much gold; that for many people it is a marvellous tool to write crap, to make silly things, to lose time stupidly for instance with video games; that finally, with the Internet, the human beings are shown more than ever in their ugliness and their absurdity.
My main problem with e-readers is the need for power. Another is the apparent lack of proofreading of e-books; Amazon's comments are loaded with complaints about the huge number of typos in the electronic versions of books.
Yes my initial shock after placing the order is a clear testimony to just how much we cling on to old habits and misplaced nostalgia. It seems so silly. When first placed the order did I feel like I had had an affair or ate at McDonald's. When it arrived however, and now after 24 hours with it, I am very much a Kindle/ereader convert and only wish I had bought it sooner. It’s absolutely one the best items I have ever bought.Quote:
Neely, I have understood your lack of space, and that the Kindle should resolve this problem. But after having bought it, you said: “What have I done?” You felt there was something wrong. You guessed it was not just a matter of place, but that it would change many things.
You are perfectly right to say it is a shame to pay 10 € a classic work in paperback of an author dead 150 years ago.
You said that having access to thousands of books for free was liberty. I don’t speak of that liberty of the consumer, by which one can choose between several goods and possess them; I speak of the liberty by which an individual tries to understand, to evaluate and to act without prejudices, without being influenced by the powers, whether they be economical, political, ideological… Do you think you will be more able to have a critical mind towards the technologies with a Kindle? Will you be in the best disposition to read Jacques Ellul or Theodore Kaczynski if you read them on your screen?
You said the technologies can be used correctly or abused depending on the user. But there are inventions that are intrinsically bad, like the nuclear bomb. That’s not new: Ariosto wanted to throw the firearm in the abyss; for him, this diabolical invention was the ruin of values such as physical courage. Some will reply that you cannot stop the progress. Indeed, the technological society has its own rules that prevent it from reflecting upon the moral impacts of the technologies.
You said the Internet was possibly one the greatest achievements of mankind. I’m not so enthusiastic, although I appreciate many of its possibilities. If I were cynic, I would say the Internet makes the Earth smaller, spreads uniformity and destroys diversity; that it leads to an atomization of the society, each person staying behind his computer; that you find there much garbage and not much gold; that for many people it is a marvellous tool to write crap, to make silly things, to lose time stupidly for instance with video games; that finally, with the Internet, the human beings are shown more than ever in their ugliness and their absurdity.
It terms of being able read critically free from prejudice, I say no more, no less. It makes no difference. It is completely immaterial to me whether the print is traditional or e-ink. It’s pretty impossible as it is, and always has been, for the individual to live in a social vacuum free from political, economic or ideological prejudices. The ereader and the technology behind it does nothing to change that. There is also nothing in the Amazon mission statement of wanting to get every book ever written downloadable within 60 seconds, to suggest that they want to force you to read Harry Potter!
Yes absolutely, technology is a tool in the hands of the user. Intrinsically it is neither good nor bad – it is just a tool. The user of the ereader can, as you said earlier, download thousands of books and not properly read any of them. Or, the careful and dedicated reader can use the Kindle, or other device, to gain access to those same books and read and study them with fervour. The device is just the medium. As ever, it is human nature and the individual, which makes that choice. It is not technology that makes human beings ugly or absurd, as you say, but human beings themselves. By the same standard, people are using technology to do beautiful and noble things.
Well I’m not sure how long a full charge is going to last. Anywhere from a week to a month I’ve read. But the process of charging seems to take about 2 hours and you just plug it into the back of your computer using the USB provided and job done. You can even buy a standard plug adaptor if you wish. In terms of typos I suspect that some will be better than others, but I’m sure overall they will improve rapidly as the demand for ereaders inevitably increase.Quote:
My main problem with e-readers is the need for power. Another is the apparent lack of proofreading of e-books; Amazon's comments are loaded with complaints about the huge number of typos in the electronic versions of books.
This really is a problem, and gets quite annoying. Not only are there typos, but missing indentations for paragraphs and other formatting errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calidore
The "typo problem" is a real problem.
You can find properly edited paperback classics new for £1.99, and you can buy 44 of those for the price of a Kindle!
It's difficult to see which Kindle editions are properly edited, or just thrown together by some geek.
As long as there will not professional sub-editors for these electronic editions, this will be another good reason not to buy a Kindle or a device of that kind.
I usually read the reviews of the Kindle editions, many reviewers will mention bad editing or formatting.
Usually though, if it's a free edition I don't mind giving it a try if it doesn't have any reviews yet. If it's really terrible I just delete it. It's not like I lose any money and I can then write a review warning others.
Are Amazon reviewers trustworthy? The geek uploaders might be reviewing themselves - or a competitor might be giving them an undeserved trashy review.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurquoiseSunset
What if it's not obviously terrible? For instance you might download Oscar Wilde's "complete letters" with many letters missing, or some not involving Oscar Wilde at all!
There needs to be someone with a job & reputation to lose doing the quality control, that is an editor an established publishing house. And that means you have to pay for it - and don't good editors deserve to be paid?
By downloading books for free you are putting good editors & publishers out of a job.
Obviously that happens and with books too. If I read one review complaining of formatting, spelling, omissions, etc. then I don't download the book. If there aren't any reviews about that then I assume a 50/50 chance of it being badly edited.Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
What if this, what if that... If you worry about something like that you can always research his letters (for example), download a free sample (in case the Kindle version you want costs something) and check the table of contents. You can also "Look Inside" of the book versions at the table of contents to see how they match up. Or you can just buy the Penguin or Wordsworth Kindle version... It's up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
I'm not putting anyone out of a job downloading pre-1923 books for free. And if I download the free version of a contemporary book, published on Amazon by the author, it would usually be that the book was published by the author on Amazon, because they had a hard time getting it published...Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them. Penguin do, but they are expensive. The Kindle version of Penguin's "Arabian Nights" is £15.99, while the paperback is £11.37!Quote:
Originally Posted by TurquoiseSunset
Yes some of the pricing for Kindle books are crazy, but you have to off-set that by the fact that there are so many available for free on Amazon and Project Guttenburg.
In terms of the formatting/typos I think it is not ideal but not necessarily the end of the world either. If there is a major problem with a book your have purchased Amazon will refund you in full. If it is a free book then you have wasted 10 seconds downloading it, try again and move on. It is worth remembering that it is still only early days and these minor issues are bound to improve.
I remember that I was put off for first going on the internet as it sounded like too much hassle and I could get all the information I needed from books! (On that I have just had to order another laptop as my very old one has finally died. :angel: There goes another £360+...ouch...expensive month.)
Anyway, I've have had a good opportunity to use the Kindle over the last few days - despite another busy, crazy week, and I would still very much recommend it. It's very neat and easy to read from and I've had no major problems at all. The only gripe about the new Kindle is that the highlight facility is not perfect and the text style pop-up keyboard wouldn't be suitable for writing long notes. This is because the keyboard has been dropped in the new Kindle to save space and to reduce cost. My minor gripe with the highlight function is that you cannot delete a highlighted note in the "My Clippings" section (the folder where all your highlights go). This I feel is a fault as surely it wouldn't be hard to add a delete function. You can delete the highlight within the book, but not within the My Clippings.
However, for reading from the Kindle, which is after all the main thing, it is very good thing, even easier than reading books (especially laid in bed) and of course the fact that it is so easy to download tons of books into one little device, means that it is a real winner for my money.
Although I still prefer and appreciate the tradition of a tangible book, I recently went with a Kindle for the sake of cost, I cannot afford additional books anymore nor do I have the room.
For the most part Kindle will still let you do most of what you can with a regular book such as, take notes, save pages, highlight and skip ahead; however, it's all electronic of course so you are relying on a hard drive to save all your work which could malfunction at any time. I'm already on my second Kindle due to some e-ink explosions on the screen. And it is true about some of the formatting with typos and pages missing, although I don't see it happen too frequently. At least with a regular book you feel more complacent with getting the whole of the book, but they can have their typos as well. I have over 400 books on my Kindle, already finished at least a quarter of them, and I haven't paid for one of them so I'm not going to complain much is some of the formatting and editing is a bit off. I don't usually upgrade with the times much if I'm still satisfied with what I already have. The new Kindle Fire is suppose to be in competition with the iPad which I don't see myself getting since I don't need most of what it offers. Technology is meant to manipulate and regulate people for the sake of empowerment. Good ol' traditions don't have to be obsolete if they are still 'traditionlized.'
I just saw Modern Library versions of classics as well (I made a mistake regarding Wordsworth).Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
That is something I don't like either. I would also like to be able to jump to the quote in the book from My Clippings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely