Owning Pets Is Cruel Debate

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Originally Posted by Delta40

is owning a pet, an animal, despite what species it may be nothing more than an extension of the human ego? Sure, you say you are a loving compassionate individual. Is that what 'owning' an animal is really about? That is not altruistic. So what is it then? It is about you, the human. It must be translated into selfish terms. It isn't about the welfare of animals, since free choice is not given in the first place. Don't we need to identify that place which resides within - which humans need to satisfy. It turns out that pets have a marvellous knack of filling this void. Why paint it any other way than what it is?

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All humans work in their own interest. Whatever YOU do, YOU'RE always going to be working in YOUR own interest. Saying that having an animal for the sake of increasing YOUR own ego is diluted.
If I take a piss in the morning, I'm working in my own interest. If I buy a house and have a kids it's because I want a house and kids.

Are you saying that, although I'm developing a parasitic relationship to an animal, I'm suddenly impacting its life in a negative way? No. If I have a pet I'll take care of it. In exchange, he gives me his lovin'. But is that selfish? No. I don't see how your argument really is, errr, arguing much of anything. Just saying that humans have pets to increase their own peen is natural. umans, by nature, hell, everything and anything by nature, is always going to work in its own self-interest first and foremost. As long as you take care of the dogs, jeez, feel free.

Everything is an extension of the human ego. That argument can be translated into EVERY argument possible. Jeezus, I swear, man. I've said the same thing whenever I ran out of things to say.

Sheep, if it makes you feel any better, I'm with you. This is silly. Dogs and cats are domesticated animals. I know it's a big word, but what part of domesticated don't they not understand?

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Originally Posted by aBIGsheep

All humans work in their own interest. Whatever YOU do, YOU'RE always going to be working in YOUR own interest. Saying that having an animal for the sake of increasing YOUR own ego is diluted.
If I take a piss in the morning, I'm working in my own interest. If I buy a house and have a kids it's because I want a house and kids.

Are you saying that, although I'm developing a parasitic relationship to an animal, I'm suddenly impacting its life in a negative way? No. If I have a pet I'll take care of it. In exchange, he gives me his lovin'. But is that selfish? No. I don't see how your argument really is, errr, arguing much of anything. Just saying that humans have pets to increase their own peen is natural. umans, by nature, hell, everything and anything by nature, is always going to work in its own self-interest first and foremost. As long as you take care of the dogs, jeez, feel free.

Everything is an extension of the human ego. That argument can be translated into EVERY argument possible. Jeezus, I swear, man. I've said the same thing whenever I ran out of things to say.

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You know, that was wonderful. You are right and I salute you. :thumbs_up

:DDD
Fo surius
I'm glad you agree with me.

Lol. Perhaps you're right. I am not sure where the word 'cruel' comes into the debate. However, I do know that owning a pet is for my satisfaction first and foremost and secondly the animal's - or to put it another way; I would at least rationalize that it is in the interest of the animals once I decide to own a pet, domesticated or not. Do I need to look further on this topic? That is rather like asking me if Chum is superior to Pedigree Pal.

Not to beat a dead horse, but yeah: adopting a pet, feeding it, and giving it all its necessities and more is not cruel by any means. I guess we own pets because of their naive loyalty. It's a bit self serving, but even if you have a terrible day, even if you wake up to discover that the world hates you, your pet will continue to love you (something that a lot of humans can't compete with). We try to put animals on par with humans but it just isn't so. An animal is not like a human. Does that mean we should butcher them into patties? Well, that's for you to decide, and I think that would have been the better debate, because I can't understand how having a pet is remotely cruel or even morally wrong.

To say that I love my cat would be an understatement because she is the light of my life, but the relationship is entirely symbiotic, which is why she constantly jumps onto my lap when I am sitting down reading and why she often sleeps on my back at night.
As far as the original thread is concerned, it is simply a case of rationalism gone mad.

I usually am well received, at night, when I arrive at the building, by the two cats of the generation. (There has been some generations of cats, since I arrived here ...)

Now there are these two, whom I call Narica (Little-Nose) and Pingada (Drop, cause she has a drop at the forehead). They do like always to see me, and I to see them, but I don't think it's so much about me. I like to put the hands on them, and move my fingers on their heads. Of all kinds of caresses I've tried, this is, oddly, what they like the most!

I don't feed them. (Others do.)

I only say hello, talk to them. We're friends. Like brothers, or something. They're definitely not human. If they were, they'd possibly don't care whether I came back home or not. They'd be in the internet! :lol:


Libri~
:crash:

But you like to put your hands on them. A choice which you make. How would they manage if you didn't touch them at all? My point is this. Your action is about you and not about the cats, despite how they respond. I have a dog and a cat. Hung Phat Chow has his own peculiarities and I am sure they are borne out of our unique relationship and our responsiveness to one another. This does not detract from my desire to want this in the first place and so I make the choice to fulfill or satisfy this need.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

But you like to put your hands on them. A choice which you make. How would they manage if you didn't touch them at all? My point is this. Your action is about you and not about the cats, despite how they respond. I have a dog and a cat. Hung Phat Chow has his own peculiarities and I am sure they are borne out of our unique relationship and our responsiveness to one another. This does not detract from my desire to want this in the first place and so I make the choice to fulfill or satisfy this need.

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My point is this. All your actions are about YOU.

Exactly. didn't you allude to urination somewhere??? (lol) what is the purpose of the thread then? That selfishness does or doesn't equate to cruelty?

Hey, I'm hungover and my brain hasn't kickstarted into 2009. Perhaps my actions rather than debates on whether they are selfish need to be addressed in the context of being cruel. Is that better ABS?

No that's wrong. Is it cruel to own a pet notwithstanding that all actions are about me. Got it!

So you're saying, everyone is cruel for trying to live? That's ridiculous. You could've condensed everything that you've said in 4 words:

Everything is about you.

Which is true to a degree, but also ridiculous when you say it's cruelty. The point of this thread is about animals. Not about how cruel you are.

Now, now I'm a short story writer. NOT a philosopher! Cut me some slack on this

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Originally Posted by Delta40

No that's wrong. Is it cruel to own a pet notwithstanding that all actions are about me. Got it!

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Hey, I'm hungover and my brain hasn't kickstarted into 2009. Perhaps my actions rather than debates on whether they are selfish need to be addressed in the context of being cruel. Is that better ABS?

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Definitely didn't see that. But chyeah, I'm not a philosopher either. I'm a short story writer.

And ABS? That's a first. I like it.

The fact of the matter is we don't actually treat our pets, puppies, kittens, all that differently from the way we treat new born children- But here's the thing: Animals ARE different to people, no matter what how you treat them. I'm not saying worse, or better, just, think about it: The reason it's not cruel to own a pet is because it doesn't develop in the same way people do.
Babies learn the language, develop, and wish to move out, get married, get a job etc. If pets wished the same things, to be free from their caregivers, they would. We're not imprisoning them!
Animals act differently, and should be treated differently as such. That isn't cruel.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

But you like to put your hands on them. A choice which you make. How would they manage if you didn't touch them at all? My point is this. Your action is about you and not about the cats, despite how they respond. I have a dog and a cat. Hung Phat Chow has his own peculiarities and I am sure they are borne out of our unique relationship and our responsiveness to one another. This does not detract from my desire to want this in the first place and so I make the choice to fulfill or satisfy this need.

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Do you look up at the sky, when you're walking out? ... Do you marvel at the small things even this *cruel* (since human first built a city) civilization cannot erase, or destroy? A leaf of a tree falling ... A white bird flying around? A cat at the stair of your building? ... No, it wasn't only a decision of a man to put hands on the world around. There IS the world around, with cats, stones to stumble onto, girls -- damn girs ... bless them! --, with fathers & mothers, with sharks and butterflies ... And sheep ... And flying saucers that are not ... (to me).

No, it wasn't a mere decision of mine to put hands on those cats. What led them to live across my way? I won't answer this. It's ... personal, aye? Maybe coincidence. Maybe ... Dildrum, the king of the cats ordered them. Maybe it was Palas Athene, Minerva ... or the god of Jacob ... Who will know? Who will tell anyone else what it was. Because, maybe it was cruel selfishness, another modern god ... It all depends on what you live based on.

:crash:

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Originally Posted by 6079

The fact of the matter is we don't actually treat our pets, puppies, kittens, all that differently from the way we treat new born children- But here's the thing: Animals ARE different to people, no matter what how you treat them. I'm not saying worse, or better, just, think about it: The reason it's not cruel to own a pet is because it doesn't develop in the same way people do.
Babies learn the language, develop, and wish to move out, get married, get a job etc. If pets wished the same things, to be free from their caregivers, they would. We're not imprisoning them!
Animals act differently, and should be treated differently as such. That isn't cruel.

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Cruel or not cruel? ...

To some, it will be always cruel. To others -- lucky these ... blessed? hm! -- to others it won't ever (never!) be cruel.

& We're even too different human beings among ourselves to reach any agreement on this, which leads me to close my participation in this vain discussion, and think about (or wait someone else to do so) opening another more interesting place to talk about dogs, cats & horses. (& Elephants, if we will, because there are places on this vast world where even elephants are happy (or unhappy? poor them!) "pets".

Elephants who (who??) who run away from tsunami.~



I'm through this | & sorry for the rough answers, but ... come on! :bawling:

&, however, what kind of human beings would we be, if we didn't discuss, and disagree? ...

Hey, I'm impressed this thread is still going. Everyone is a slave to Lote and his inflammatory, if slightly misguided, tendancies!

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Originally Posted by 6079

If pets wished the same things, to be free from their caregivers, they would. We're not imprisoning them!

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Hey, that's funny 6079! Just last week I was walking along the street and I bumped into a pair of Ciclids (they're fish, for the uninitiated) in their freshwater suits with backpacks over their shoulders. They were standing at the bus stop. I asked them what they were doing and they said they'd been for a nice holiday and were making their way back to Lake Tanganyika, back to their kids. Had a great time they said. Weird, huh? ;)

Forgive me, I'm in a silly mood today.Couldn't resist.