no. he believed armineans ( i that what their "race is ) was an unevolved species of human.
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no. he believed armineans ( i that what their "race is ) was an unevolved species of human.
they are a what???
According to this website, I would question that information: http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/hitler/hitler1.htm
And religion of course has the evidence of circular argument; a book that says that the book is true. Not so much credible evidence as gullible evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRupert
Atheism is not a religion. It is a denial of the validity of all religion. It is a belief in the non-existence of a god of any kind.
I also have faith in the innate corruptiblility of government and the fact that the England football team will win the world cup (although perhaps not this year!) Does that make me religious too?
And if my belief in atheism makes me religious, does your disbelief in atheism make you an atheist? ;)
And once again the boxing gloves are back in the game...
throw light punches, XC, you've got a new member on your hands there!
wink wink
I know no mercy sdr. :lol:
Words, like windmills, are there to be shied at.
Yeah we know about you and your lack of mercy!
i was not saying faith=religion, but the ideals of, say, a religious person being fervent in their ideas. ( ie {almost slang form of the word}that man is religious in his conversations with people.... that could be interpreted as he makes sure his ideals are the motives for how he talks[what he says]..i try to think like a christian) religious meaning atheism controls your thinking as much as christianity mine. you probably have certain ideals driven by atheism.
anyways this is probably going nowhere and my ideas wont change as much as your's will...continue if you like.
Why is that? Are you not prepared to change? Not prepared to listen to arguments and judge them using your own intellect?Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRupert
That is dogmatism. Blinkered thinking. Is that really how you want to live? Coccooned in your faith and unquestioning? Isn't there a parable about not using your talents? Does this not apply to the talent of reason? The talent of intellect?
Why am I asking these questions? You already know your not going to listen - right?
Live happily in your closed mind; your ivory tower of christianity. If that's what makes you happy, I hope no-one ever kicks the doors in. But you can't blame me for wanting to try a few keys in the lock, can you? :brow:
For the record, I question everything. I admit my doubts, and if they grow bigger than my current beliefs, I change those beliefs. This is how the world progresses. If everyone followed your dogged trust in some millenia-old book, we'd still think the world was flat and we'd fall off the edge if we sailed too far.
Sorry if I've offended you. But you'll find worse than me in the world. :nod:
no offense taken, but, to be frank, i have no problem with you calling me narrow-minded, But very very earnestly believe, that my beliefs are right (christianity) and your's are wrong ( atheism)
good day,
ps. the bible does not say the earth is flat....
*It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: isa. 40:20
Rupert,
I said closed-minded, not narrow-minded. You said your beliefs weren't subject to change. That's what closed-mided means - not influenced by others.
"dogmatism"?? "blinkered thinking" you say??
X, It really surprises me you are familiar with the concept. It is true that it was you who brought plato's thought to the thread and that it was you who said "an unexamined life is not worth living." But your posts here reflect the least amount of "examining"
Perhaps I may infer that since you are "settled" with regards to religious belief, that you are done "examining"
Personally, im not offended by how proud you are to be an athiest. I am largely offended, however, by an attitude im sensing; that you r "already there" and that whoever is not "there" with you deeply demisguided.
I am not an athiest but I do not consider myself to be a believer either. I simply do not know. I "examine my life" and look for clues to help me along the way. Reading your posts makes me promise myself (and repeat the promise) that when I am "there" (wherever that might b) I will not stop "examining" and I will not stop studying clues that may come my way. I know ur probably quite sure of ur beliefs regarding this topic. But r u really sure that ur having the right attitude for the discussion?
I do not wish to offend anyone. Above all, I aim to challenge MY own beliefs.
xc,
my ideas not changing means, Christianity
Being a nihilist sucks.
And doesn't satan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lady
Then there are men who know they are married to the best women, and women who know they are married to the best men, that commit wedacide on a decent person they know to be decent.
There are police that know something about law and order, but undermine both.
And there are business people that know customers want a cheap price, but they give only the opposite, with cheap quality.
Some have seen me give a good example, then have either avoided me and forgotten what they themselves praised in me, or they decided to hate me, in order not to listen to the conscience within themselves that had empathy for me.
Do not masters of Hitler's sort have an amazing skill for murder, regardless of whom they know the goodness of?
Whether he believed in GOD or not, he certainly wanted those that loved HIM dead, whether they were Jew or Catholic or Lutheran. He did romanticize about a Norse "god" or more at times, according to some nazis' statements about him.
I’m not Mary Poppins.Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
Why should I be sorry? For defending my own beliefs against the claim that they make me an incomplete human being? The significant part of the quotation for me was,
“Yes, by Saint Patrick, but there is, Horatio,
And much offence too.”
A ‘friendly’ tone can hide nasty assumptions as well. It’s not conventionally rude in the way I am but it is both patronising and dishonest:
“When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it?”
Another bastard
They make advances on my spirit and my soul.
So now I am a sadomasochist as well? :D Would it count as one of those beliefs that should be respected? If so, I might subscribe and then place special emphasis on the doctrine “Do unto others…”Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
Some can say what they like. Don’t like such views; don’t read him. I offered it as some kind of explanation of my own sympathies, not as a philosophy for others to adopt.Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
I wasn’t offering an intellectual excuse for my ‘savagery’. Perhaps I have misunderstood.Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
And I’m a bit mystified about why you care. Where do I suggest that I want to convert believers? Is that what you think I’m doing? My early argument on here was with the assumption that faith is logically consistent. To me it isn’t. Believe what you like but don’t tell me that if my beliefs differ it is either because I am too stupid to understand or that my beliefs make me an incomplete human being. If I really were as pessimistic and cynical as you suggest, I would surely want to encourage people in their stupidity? It would justify my sour view and give me all the more to laugh at.Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
Firstly, what do you mean by a ‘lack of literature’ complaint? My complaint was about anti-intellectualism and the offering of religious panaceas. It was not a complaint about this particular thread or the existence of an area for the faithful, but about the site as a whole. I have only posted to six threads in total on the ‘Religious Texts’ section (there are currently 220). On one I made just a single comment and two I started (one as a joke). So your claim that I ‘hang around’ these threads is unfair. I ‘hung around’ this thread simply because of XC. He is (nearly ;) ) always worth reading. I came back to the thread when I was quoted in a contribution that suggested that atheists are lacking something as people.Quote:
Originally Posted by “blp”
As a final thought (not a justification for anything) have a look at WB Yeats’ Meditations In Time Of Civil War - Ancestral Houses:
“What if those things the greatest of mankind
Consider most to magnify, or to bless,
But take our greatness with our bitterness?”
This is getting silly – I guess because we are wary of each other. I think an uneasy alliance is possible, though – perhaps born out of a kind of grudging mutual respect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whifflingpin
I know you were being funny – that’s why I posted the lol smiley. It did actually make me laugh! I was going to post “not many will get that” but I thought you might take it as a criticism.
Don’t forget that my desire was deleted (not for the first time in my life). I’ve just had a quick look at the thread and I don’t really know what to say. The deleted comments concerned his tussles in the French courts (anyone who wants to know over what will have to find out for themselves).Quote:
Originally Posted by Whifflingpin
I will try to respond, though. Of course, that does mean posting on yet another ‘Religious Texts’ thread. :brow:
a) Well done you.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unnamable
b) Film version or book, Mary Poppins wasn't that nice.
c) I said a bit.
No, not for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unnamable
More for that. Why would you want to be conventionally rude anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unnamable
How do you know you don't on theirs?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unnamable
So - the choices are between overt rudeness and false politeness? And is that it?
:nod: :lol: [smilies meant sincerely.]Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
Seriously? I have to like a writer's views in order to read him? All of them? Isn't this just another way of saying, 'if we don't agree we can't talk?'Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
I didn't mean to state categorically that you were. It's more a question. As I say, it's a seductive quote. The idea of being a searing, merciless truthteller and hang the hurt to irrational comforts is seductive in general. After all, what could be wrong with it? Well, it's a bit of a cliché for one. And for two, it's a bit melodramatic - and, here's where the question really is for me - that melodrama could so easily be a ruse - for viciousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
Maybe because I'm finding the atheist faction here (of which I count myself a member) a little too cosey, a little too brutally sure of itself in the face of an easy target. Maybe because I care about the 'incomplete human being' jibe too - and its attendant charge of lack of values.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
Oh, mate! You don't have to tell me all that. But you don't have to feel so aggrieved either. Lots of people here agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
Mmm. I suppose. I didn't say you were cynical or a pessimist. I thought I remembered you saying you were a pessimist. Maybe I misunderstood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
I can see your point, but what to do? This isn't and will never be the Harvard debating society. Anyway, when both sides aren't just repeating pat arguments, though they are most of the time, I find it interesting to have some religious types around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
Oh well - perhaps I misunderstood again and it was my complaint - which I never got around to making. Mods, why are there all these threads that aren't about books in a section of the forum called 'Religious texts'? Couldn't they all be moved to general chat? Or is it that we're supposed to be writing the religious texts ourselves?
If I understand this right, then, well, it's exactly what I was getting at. Awkwardly, admittedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnamable
i still can't decide whether or not God exists. either he doesn't exist because there's so much evil and unfairness on the earth, or he's an omniscent and omnipotent creator who made us becasue we're so incredibly complex that we couldn't have come to be any other way. anyone know the science on the creation of life?
I still can't figure out why you all are having these silly discussions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir
God exists. I believe the big bang theory:
God said it. It happened.
Scientists will tell you that these two huge rocks in the void of space collided, that a single water molecule formed a gigabillion years later, then it somehow multiplied and covered the rock it was on, then some of it dried up, then a cell spontaneously became an ameoba, and a gigatrillion years later, after all life forms stemmed from the one ameoba, you showed up.
You know what? It takes FAR more faith to believe that load of crap than to just believe that God created us.
I have a new perspective that I would like your opinions on~
I may not agree with what my fellow human wishes to say, but I shall defend to the death his right to say it.
Feedback please...thanks.
I dont find the discussion incredibly silly, rather "fruitless". :brickwall
For me, this is quite an interesting discussion, even though it does not involve relgious texts. posts from XC and the Unnamable really stir it up. It would be nice, though, if they tone it down a bit. It's not really a fight. So some people make some illogical arguements, big deal! ;)
It's enough for us to correct him/her in order to get back on track. I might add, I find a lot of false logic in their posts too. Some people here, like myself, mayb reading in search for answers or for a belief. So it wont kill anyone to JUST make their point without all the hostility. :wave:
lol! Thanks, R. I'm still chuckling in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
Welcome, mccrane!
Fine words indeed. Here’s my feedback:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdr4jc
Are you prepared to defend my right to say what I would really like to say about Islam?
Voltaire also said,
“As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.”
You suggest that I should adopt a more conciliatory approach and then dismiss scientific explanation as a “load of crap”.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdr4jc
Presumably, as someone who believes in the scientific explanation, I am a supporter of crap. :confused: - Very conciliatory.
The probabilty of life every spontaniosly being created is just below none. In truth look at the new studys disproving that the world is old (did you know that organic material in the last hawian eruption was said to have happend 1.4 million years ago by carbon dating...) As to why would God wait, well, why would he reveal himself at all? Who the hell knows.
yes, i definitely agree to that. but it doesn't mean that you can't debate it, as long as you don't try to put down anyone else's ideas, only offer your own. i guess the main thing that makes me skeptical about God is that humans wrote the bible, which is the main text we use to discuss God. i wonder what we would beleive about Him today if the Bible had never been written.
sorry, i meant that in response to sdr4jc's "feedback please" thread
Why, thank you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
I would but I can’t seem to find my blandness control dial. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
Perhaps in Master Chegwe’s but surely not in mine? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
I don’t know if you’ll find many answers in here but we are overflowing with beliefs. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
Is that you, mother?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrane
""Well, I cannot understand it."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
"That is the case with us all, papa. One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other."" Emma Jane Austen
Do you mind if I ask you something? If they are “silly discussions”, why are you still reading them? :D Not only that but why are you posting to tell us that something you’ve just considered isn’t worth considering? :lol:
Oh Unnamable...you're keeping me quite on my toes! I hope I am not causing beads of sweat on your forehead. I really do. You are perfect to bounce ideas off of, especially when we see this from two separate angles. I'm not against you, I never was, and I know better than to try to 'convert' you. You shall remain on my "Respect this person" list!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir
And God created humans. And God blessed humans. And the Holy Spirit protects the Word of God, and I assure you that no man can ever blemish the scriptures, in writing, in translating, or in re-translating.
yeah . . .i guess. but then you start going around in circles - god made humans who in turn wrote the bible which refutes the existence of god, but was written by humans instead of god so how do we know . . . and it doesn't make it any easier that there were - and still are - so many other religions that have their own absolute view of god, and their own unarguable scriptures which they are sure were ordained by god - so in the end, all you have is the word of humans to beleive in. what do you do? besides becoming an agnostic, which is me now. and what is your reason for beleiving in god and trying to make others beleive it too - why do we have to have an answer at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xamonas Chegwe
Firstly we need to take this with a factual look at the book of Genesis.
Now according to recent research in DNA, All humanity is decended from 100 or less humans who lived in Africa.
Now let take it that according to the Bible, humans before the flood lived for a thousand, give or take years, and that most religious information was passed onto human society.
Hence humans, one moral code of ethics. (though slightly mutated)
So say we have a closed nit society of Agragarians, living in amongst the dinosaurs.
A close nit society that spoke one language, and from what we know had no forms of copying or writing down written works. Hence everything, religious or otherwise was delivered orally.
Now think, remember that game as a child where you have to whisper something like "fuzzy pickles" and as it went along it would mutate into, "I like Fuzzy Snickers"
The same goes for orally delivered religion, hence many pre-script societies have myths of human creation, though colourfully different, and the great flood that covered the earth.
So now think, human society has built cities, plants foods, wars with its neighbors, (Thanks to Cain) and has bred with a society of half angels - Nephelim.
These Nephelim, become the heroes of old, Heracles, Zeus, Mercury, Thor, all re-accounted by different societies later on, yet still amazingly similiar in their makeup, these weren't just the inventions of people in that age, but stemmed from early, and earlier subjects.
So then the bible states that all human life was wicked, and therefor God sought to destroy us all, yet found Noah and spared him.
Noah built the ark with his family, a 140 year project, and when the floods came the entire earth was killed off, all dinosaurs, mammoths, disco techs, cities, evil people.
Noah emerged on Mt. Ararat, and started anew, so even if that old history had its religion written down, it was then destroyed with everything else.
Leaving a big blank in history. Then the humans built the tower of Babel, speech was muffled and they all went their seperate ways, making the modern human societies, with their still orally based myths and religions.
God singled out Abraham, because he was strong with God, and founded the Jewish nation from him, Abraham's beliefs then passed onwards to his children, and it wasn't until Moses was prophet that he compiled the book of Genesis as a reminder to the people of who came before them.
Hence what I said holds true, the book of Genesis is a summary of what has happened so far up to that point in israels history.
As for the what question. God walked with Adam's descendants, and before Jesus Christ all men noble, good, or otherwise went to Hell, because of Adam's fall, after Jesus's sacrifice they were then set free.
Enoch who lived to know all the Elders from Adam onward didn't die, because he was so strong with God, he like Elijah was swept up in a whirlwind and didn't die.
And also, God is all knowing. Yet he is fair.
He created Satan, one of his most beautiful creations, perfect, absolutely perfect, yet despite satans perfect nature, he corrupted himself and three quarters of the heavenly angels.
Now remember, God orchestrated mans fall, he meant for it to happen.
Why? Because God wanted humans to have something that the angels never had.
The free will to choose, for God, or not. If you love God, then he wil accept you, yet if you hate him, can you really expect him to keep you around?
"Seek my Face, and I shall find you!, Keep me, and I shall keep you."
I mean for example, say you had two dogs, both the same in every way.
Yet one dog absolutely loved you, couldn't get enough of you, and did everything it could for you.
And the other hated you, snap at you, and did all sorts of mischief to displease you.
Which XM would you honestly prefer?
Hope this helped answer your questions XM.
"A man would strive for God, even if there was no proof or word of him, since he feels in his bosom the love of Adam, the love of his creator, he would seek God where ever he turned."
Theshizznigg,
It answers my question from your point of view. Thank you.
I think you already know that I don't believe any of what you wrote to be true.
It's strange how these Nephilim have crept into your arguments though. This seems to be almost as popular as Dan Brown in the list of New Age slants on the bible - and almost as convincing ;).
As far as I understand it, Nephilim comes from the Hebrew word for 'giant' and all the hocum about 'fallen angels' breeding with mankind is derived from these few verses in Genesis 6.
It still worries me that there are people that believe all of this stuff is real. It's myth and legend, nothing more. The Earth is billions of years old, not thousands. The bible was written by men, not God.Quote:
6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
PS. I did a search and I can find no mention of Discotheques in the bible - shame, that would have been more convincing than all of your other arguments combined!
I do try to add some humour to my posts its true.
And as for you being so kind, as to read my posting, I thank you very much. Too many people are often apt to post, that they don't fully read, and it is greatly appreciated.
As for the current views on Nephelim/what not, I don't know what the modern biblical scholars are up to. Much of my information for them came from Genesis and in all truths Caedemons poems.
Religious-Text.com does have a large and expansive library of religous books, and I would ask you to kindly take some time to have a look at it.
There are several books in the Christianity section that have been left out of the bible that give more info about Genesis.
(I've yet to read most of them since my time has been short lately.)
Take Care.
Shizz.
"In all the worlds, in all the universes, I have suffered the worst imaginable fate. I'm the only male on a planet of nymphomaniac, and I'm having erectile difficulties. :mad: "
- Oddity Express # 2
It's not just the every day human that wrote the bible, but prophets who wrote the record of their people and the word of god so that future generations could read about it. According to these scriptures, it is through prophets/seers that god sends his messages. Whether we want to believe it is a true record or not, it's up to us. Also, some of the other scriptures, could possibly be as true as the bible. Sometimes they're just a separate record of a different area. They may possibly have some of the same things in them, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they were copied from the bible and then changed a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by mir
And it's true that all we have is the word of humans to believe in, but isn't that the case with any belief. No matter how illogical something seems, it's always nice to keep a door open for possibilities.
yeah . . . that's why i'm agnostic and not atheist. but i think one of the reasons that a lot of people (me included maybe) don't beleive in god is becasue we stereotype him - say he's kind and loving, and then the holocaust happens; or say he rewards the good, and then a wonderful person dies young. i think a lot more people would beleive in him if the prophets - people who wrote the bible - hadn't generalized from one or two deeds he did and called him kind and loving because one thing he did was good.
Yeah, I think religion is constructed. It's all just a concept man adopted, nothing more.
If you got a million years to do it, you couldn't point out half the irregularities of any given religion.
That is why No One should take a religion seriously.
Humans have always sought some sort of thing to believe in. God never really 'waited' or anything. God was always there, and still is. He just comes out different every now and then.
God is a subjective matter.
Yeah he exists, but it's subjective as hell.