February '10 Reading: Villette by Charlotte Bronte

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Originally Posted by mona amon

Ha, Scher, I'm guessing you haven't yet read Jane Eyre! :D Outrageously unlikely coincidences are a part of most of Charlotte's plots.

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Read it so many years ago that I am hoping to reread it again some time soon (I nominated it for the Valentine's Day reading but no chance).

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

The thing I find interesting about the book is the way in which Lucy finds herself thrust into these positions which takes her completely out of her comfort zone and forces her into a role which is opposing to her usual nature.

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In some of these scenes when things were "forced" on her, I could not help wondering how sincere she was being with us.

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I have to admit that there were moments within the book in which I had expected Lucy to have at least some leanings towards women, so it was quite interesting seeing Bronte at least comically play that role out. And it is curious to explore the possibility that Lucy is so harsh with Ginevera because Lucy is in fact jealous of Ginevra's admirers.

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Again, we have to rely on Lucy's own account and openness throughout the book and I think we should not expect her to be objective all together and, interestingly, she seems to be growing more and more honest towards the end of the book (Still haven't finished; 1/5 left to be read still).

Graham, Graham, Graham... M. Paul, M.Paul, M.Paul... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

It was right after she falls ill after visiting the Church and later on confesses certain things about the people she knew.

What do you make of the fact that she gets locked up in the attic?

And I was wondering when we would get to meet Polly again... Too many coincidences for my liking. :rolleyes:

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I was quite shocked at first when she was locked in the attic. To say the least that seemed like a rather extreme method of getting her to learn her lines. It was perhaps a moment of transition for her, a way perhaps to let go of her identity, so she could take on the role.

It is interesting in considering the previous discussions about how she seems to define herself through opposition of the other people she is around and meets, she sees herself based upon her juxtapositions to other people. So in the moment when she is in the attic, she is secluded from that, she is with only herself and she must adapt this new role of which she is uncomfortable with.

There is a lot of identity structuring, and seeking which takes place within the book, as well as questions and challenges of identity particularly considering the character of Graham who becomes Dr. John, and is initially reintroduced to Lucy as simply a helpful stranger when she arrives within the new city. And is dubbed as "Isidore" by Ginevra.

I was a bit bothered by the illness scene. It just seems to me to be so out of place. Lucy seems the least likely person whom would suddenly succumb to "weak nerves" and it is a bit of a contradiction in her character that she spends so much time seeking her own seclusion, that when she is left alone she suddenly has this strange sort of nervous breakdown. Yet she was able to cross the ocean into a completely unknown country with no future prospects and knowing no one or even the language.

Perhaps it is a breaking point in Lucy's struggles with her identity, or perhaps it is a mark of all that she had kept to herself, and the emotion of which she had previously kept concealed within her.

Haha my theory is Polly is Ginevera :lol:

Finished this yesterday and what a let down at the end... It just does not seem fair too me.

Ho-hum.

I cannot figure out how to quote, but I refer to a discussion by Dark Muse about Lucy's crisis.
I believe that that crisis could have been shared by Charlotte Bronte.
I think that both Lucy and
charlotte might have been up a tree.
There is Lucy, utterly alone, with no friend that can match her intelligence and discernment, and there is no way out in sight. The seems that it is necessary to place Lucy within the sphere of Dr. John , who is her social superior. Bronte also has to get from the bleak dormitory to reintroducing Polly, who a complicated person. And of course, this is within the length of a book.
And so there is a crisis where everything is out of Lucy's control, and anything can happen. The plot can advance.
I realize that I sound cynical, bout I am truly enjoying the book an I am not cynical about it at all. I don't begrudge a plot device, but if it is so, I find it interesting.

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Originally Posted by Mayfly

I cannot figure out how to quote, but I refer to a discussion by Dark Muse about Lucy's crisis.
I believe that that crisis could have been shared by Charlotte Bronte.
I think that both Lucy and
charlotte might have been up a tree.
There is Lucy, utterly alone, with no friend that can match her intelligence and discernment, and there is no way out in sight. The seems that it is necessary to place Lucy within the sphere of Dr. John , who is her social superior. Bronte also has to get from the bleak dormitory to reintroducing Polly, who a complicated person. And of course, this is within the length of a book.
And so there is a crisis where everything is out of Lucy's control, and anything can happen. The plot can advance.
I realize that I sound cynical, bout I am truly enjoying the book an I am not cynical about it at all. I don't begrudge a plot device, but if it is so, I find it interesting.

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To quote another person, all you have to do is click on the icon that says "quote" at the end of each person's post.

And back to the story. I understand where you are coming from, and in thinking of it that way, it does make sense that Lucy's crisis was needed as a way to advance the story further. While I am enjoying the book, and think some of the prose is beautiful, perhaps Bronte did back herself up into a corner and needed a way in which to break free and advance the story forward.

It does feel out of character to suddenly give Lucy a breakdown in nerves, but as you have indicated it was the only way to lift her out of that solitude of the dormitory, allow her feelings to come out more, and allow for her revelation of Graham = Dr. John, and put the two of them in each other's way, as it were.

I was intrigued by the Cleopatra painting which was described in the chapter "Cleopatra" because of my interest in art, I have a habit of always wanting to look up allusions to art and artists and see the work myself. At first I thought the painting sounded Pre-Raphealite, and so I scoured my sources for anything that I thought might provide a possible resemblance to the painting indicated in the book, but I came up with nothing that bore close enough of a resemblance.

Well I could not at this point let the subject go and was quite determined to try and track the painting down, and did some research on the Internet, and found an article which suggested that the painting within Villette may have been molded after an image of an Egyptian dancing girl called "Une Alme" by Edouard De Biefve

So I then of coruse looked up the image, so here is the possibly inspiration for Bronte's Cleoptra painting

http://www.belly-dance.org/prenten/almeh_1842.jpg

Ha, my guess even though it was done as a jest, was not that far off. Polly is the cousin of Ginevra, for some reason there was something about Ginevera that made me think of Polly and I sensed some connection between the two of them.

Dark Muse, although Charlotte did see that picture you posted at an exhibition in Brussels, it does not seem to fit the "Cleopatra" described by her, and it's been suggested that the large scale, the nudity, the daylight, and jumble of objets d'art in the painting more closely resemble the works of seventeenth century painters like Rubens. Charlotte had considered a career as an artist at one time, and had spent a lot of time studying paintings.

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And back to the story. I understand where you are coming from, and in thinking of it that way, it does make sense that Lucy's crisis was needed as a way to advance the story further. While I am enjoying the book, and think some of the prose is beautiful, perhaps Bronte did back herself up into a corner and needed a way in which to break free and advance the story forward.

It does feel out of character to suddenly give Lucy a breakdown in nerves, but as you have indicated it was the only way to lift her out of that solitude of the dormitory, allow her feelings to come out more, and allow for her revelation of Graham = Dr. John, and put the two of them in each other's way, as it were. ~ Dark Muse

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Lucy having a breakdown and doing nutty things doesn't seem out of character to me, but I've read the book several times, so mine are not first impressions. She seeks seclusion because she isn't able to connect with anyone there, except Ginevra to a certain extent, but at the same time she's desperately lonely. I'll wait till everyone finishes before discussing further.

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Originally Posted by mona amon

Dark Muse, although Charlotte did see that picture you posted at an exhibition in Brussels, it does not seem to fit the "Cleopatra" described by her, and it's been suggested that the large scale, the nudity, the daylight, and jumble of objets d'art in the painting more closely resemble the works of seventeenth century painters like Rubens. Charlotte had considered a career as an artist at one time, and had spent a lot of time studying paintings.

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I do not think that the painting Lucy sees within the book is in fact an acutal painting but rather Bronte made up the image based upon the Egyptian dancer image. She took the idea of the Egyptian Dancer and transformed it into the Cleopatra rather than alluding to an acutal painting within the story.

From what I have read the Egyptian Dancer painting did cause quite the fuss and scandal in its time when it was first shown.

It could have been a combination of things. The image of the Egyptian Dancer might first of given her the Cleopatra inspiration, and she set that basic image into the more Rubenesque backgrop and style to create the vision which Lucy encounters.

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Originally Posted by mona amon

Lucy having a breakdown and doing nutty things doesn't seem out of character to me, but I've read the book several times, so mine are not first impressions. She seeks seclusion because she isn't able to connect with anyone there, except Ginevra to a certain extent, but at the same time she's desperately lonely. I'll wait till everyone finishes before discussing further.

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It seems to me that Lucy's loneliness does not display itself until after she has her nervous break down. Prior to the breakdown there is nothing within Lucy's character which would suggest she would be prone to be of such erratic emotion and weak mind. She appears to be a reasonable and sensible person.

But once she has her first breakdown, it seems the dam breaks so to speak and she starts to become much more hypersensitive and begins acting irrationally.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Finished this yesterday and what a let down at the end... It just does not seem fair too me.

Ho-hum.

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In what way do you mean?

I felt let down too. I'd gone through 500 pages and then that happened, right at the end!

Hey there everyone. I received an email with some juicy comments about Villette and Bronte in the book of the month blog, but I can't seem to find them here to respond. I am not a regular, and find myself truly disappointed that I neglected my membership for so long that I missed this discussion. Villette will be my March book of the month and I will have my comments to keep to myself.

In the meantime, can anyone tell me where I might find those other comments from the email newsletter? I particularly enjoyed the one by the sisters who wondered why Bronte's heroines are homely. I hadn't noticed, but will enjoy this observation as I read Villette.

Thank you for all for your inspiration. I get a bit stuck in a rut with my reading. This might pull me out and was the reason I joined to begin with.

Dish

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Originally Posted by Veho

In what way do you mean?

I felt let down too. I'd gone through 500 pages and then that happened, right at the end!

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I have to say personally I quite liked the ending. Particularly for a book of that time period, it was a refreshing change from the usual, expected, and predictable ending in which everyone ends up happily married off and the heroine gets her prince charming and those that tried to impeded them all get their just deserts and Happily Every After.

Most Victorian era books have very idyllic, sentimental and fairy tale like endings, so I quite enjoyed Charlotte Bronte's boldness in the rather daring end which she offered to the story, that did not necessarily wrap everything up all nice and neat.

All in all I quite thoroughly enjoyed this book.