The Benefits of Celibacy and Chastity

Sex isn't a necessary thing, we don't die if we don't have sex, but we don't die if we cease to read or speak. Celibacy/Chastity does come with its benefits, the concepts of cleanliness and all the like, however in this way it can be seen as a vice, a similar one to smoking, drinking, etc. The thing is, its fun, shockingly so, because if it weren't we wouldn't do it all and where would the human race be? As for draining creativity, the best work of many have been derived from their worst moments in life. Misery breeds creativity.

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Originally Posted by kiki1982

And what with Bouddhist monks? As far as I know they are also celibate...

Paedophelia has nothing to do with being deprived of sexual desire, or at least not for adults. So those priest do not turn to abusing children because they are deprived of sex in generl, they turn to abusing children because they prefer children and they would have done that too if they had had a wife, children, nephews and nieces. The 'condition' is similar to homosexuality (the desire for the same sex), with the exception that homosexuality is accepted and paedophelia is not (and should never be because it harms the subject).

Oscar Wilde was still condemned to a prison sentence for his homosexuality, whereas now it is deemed natural.

There are people in the world who are perfectly able to live without sex, but it's not given too all of us.

And do not start slagging me off for putting homosexuality and paedophelia in the same sentence, because sexual preference is an objective thing, whether it is deemed morally wrong or not.

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I have no intentions of "slagging you off", but allow me to disagree with you. Lack of normal sexual relations has been show to cause mass hysteria, where almost anything can and does happen. Medical fact.

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Originally Posted by Pendragon

I have no intentions of "slagging you off", but allow me to disagree with you. Lack of normal sexual relations has been show to cause mass hysteria, where almost anything can and does happen. Medical fact.

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Causality is almost never a fact.

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Originally Posted by Pendragon

I have no intentions of "slagging you off", but allow me to disagree with you. Lack of normal sexual relations has been show to cause mass hysteria, where almost anything can and does happen. Medical fact.

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Point taken about the slagging off. I was just afraid about people not getting my point of comparison... :)

But I disagree. I refuse to believe that all celibate people end up mad because they have been deprived of sex.

To me it is a question of mental strength. Not that I totally disagree with your point: someone who absolutely wants sex (has incontrollable urges) and who does not see the personal need for celibacy should not be forced to be celibate. I can see how that makes one unhappy, brings one into a depression with all nasty concequences. (There are enough homosexuals who used to have that problem when gayness was not accepted yet: they were not allowed to express themselves).

On the other hand, someone who chooses to be celibate and to keep that vow is objectively completely able to stay sane.

The problem with the priests is that at least a large portion of them was forced into it: because parents thought it was a nice idea, it was fashionable; because they were homosexual and did not want people to know (true at least in Europe); because it was a family tradition (second son becomes priest); they couldnot deal with women (afraid of them, so never dared to ask for a hand in marriage)... so all petty reasons, the same as why there were so many nuns about.

It was a joke, at least in Belgium, that the maid of the priest and the priest himself usually had a relationship, but given the social pressure (hence the many 'calings') to become one, I can really believe that the maid of the priest became a kind of mistress... Although I think now, callings are much more serious and young priests now do not so much manipulate the system (I'd like to believe).

Oh, my God. It's like I'm obsessed with gays here. I am sorry about it, but it is a good way of differentiating between forced celibacy and voluntary celibacy and it is not so long ago that it was still frowned upon or was even a crime (in Britain until 1967).

But allow me to say that I don't consider Bouddhist monks as hysteric.

Buddhist monks are definitely not hysteric.. Hindu monks also are celibate. Vaisnavas are celibate... Caitanya Mahaprabhu was celibate. As far as I know, all the most revered saints of both Hinduism and Buddhism were celibate. Milarepa was one of the greatest Buddhas I have ever known. One of the main things in Buddhism in regard to this is to be one's own master. No one can take that away from you, if you can attain self-mastery. Buddhism (and Hinduism, and any pure Christian) teaches this: not to try to master others, but to master oneself.

And Dale, I don't know what facts you have, I am not sure exactly what you are precisely saying. As I said, causality is almost impossible to be certain of, and it is virtually never a "fact." All I can do is encourage you to spend time with some pure devotees, or Hindus, meet with some Indians and get to know them, discuss all of these things.

As far as I can tell it's really about consciousness. As William James said, It's a fact that this life is worth living, because it's what you make it. Also, celibacy or chastity or the lack thereof is what you make of it. But since we are also brought up by our parents and our peers and society, not to mention television and other media, we have to watch what our influences are, because they will have their influence, for good or ill. Of course I may have some pride in that I feel I understand psychology and ontology very well. Happiness is the main goal, as Krishnamurti say. And the most important thing involved is perhaps to know oneself, one's motives, one's desires, limitations, needs, etc.

Buddhist monks, and Hindu brahmanas, are definitely living different lives from normal society in today's day and age. They undergo what we think of as austerity, such as no more Sitcoms (but also no more commercials!), no more soda, no more chewing gum, alcohol, and so on; further, they engage their whole lives in spiritual practice. But often they are manifesting all good qualities, and so they are the most warm, attractive people. They have Shakti. Shakti means power. So you will find these people imbued with warmth, love, and what might be called a spiritual aura.

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Originally Posted by kiki1982

Point taken about the slagging off. I was just afraid about people not getting my point of comparison... :)

But I disagree. I refuse to believe that all celibate people end up mad because they have been deprived of sex.

To me it is a question of mental strength. Not that I totally disagree with your point: someone who absolutely wants sex (has uncontrollable urges) and who does not see the personal need for celibacy should not be forced to be celibate. I can see how that makes one unhappy, brings one into a depression with all nasty consequences. (There are enough homosexuals who used to have that problem when gayness was not accepted yet: they were not allowed to express themselves).

On the other hand, someone who chooses to be celibate and to keep that vow is objectively completely able to stay sane.



But allow me to say that I don't consider Bouddhist monks as hysteric.

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Hm, First I would like to say that I am not a satanist and that I read the book out of curiosity. Many of the philosophical ideas are pretty good, and there are influences from many philosophers I consider great on the work. However I also disagree with some of the points of Satanism, But hey you don't have to accept an idea to entertain it. That being said, I found the article on sexuality in the Satanic Bible rather interesting and relevant to this topic.

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Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires
- be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism also sanctions Even the asexual has a deviation - his asexuality. It is far more abnormal to have a lack of sexual desire (unless illness or old-age, or another valid reason has caused the wane) than it is to be sexually promiscuous. However, if a Satanist chooses sexual sublimination above overt
sexual expression, that is entirely his own affair. In many cases of sexual sublimination (or asexuality), any attempt to emancipate himself sexually would prove devastating to the asexual. Asexuals are invariably sexually sublimated by their jobs or hobbies. All the energy and driving interest which would normally be devoted to sexual activity is channeled into other pastimes or into their chosen occupations. If a person favors other interests over sexual activity, it is his right, and no one is justified in condemning him for it. However, the person should at least recognize the fact that this is a sexual sublimation...... The true Satanist is not mastered by sex any more than he is mastered by any of his other desires. As with all other pleasurable things, the Satanist is master of, rather than mastered by sex. He is not the perverted fiend who is just waiting for the opportunity to deflower every
young virgin, nor is he the skulking degenerate who furtively hangs around in the "dirty" bookstores, slavering over the "nasty" pictures. If pornography fills his needs for the moment, he unashamedly buys some "choice items" and guiltlessly peruses them at his leisure.... The watchword of Satanism is INDULGENCE instead of "abstinence" . . . BUT - it is not
“compulsion“.

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I agree with with this. I believe whether or not you are asexual by nature, or live an asexual life by choice, your focuses that might otherwise be centered on sexuality would be focused elsewhere. It's unbelievable the amount of emphasis people put on dating, sex, and relationships. In the end, if you live a chaste & celibate life you will not have these distractions. That being said, I agree with the poster I quoted that, people who do not want to remain celibate and / or chaste should not be forced to be celibate.

As you will often see me do, I'd like to reference Nietzsche. In Thus Spoke Zarathustra in the first part there is a section called "On Chastity" which can be found at this link though it is a different translation from the book I am using. http://www.geocities.com/thenietzsch...rapt1.htm#chas

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Do I exhort to you chastity? Chastity is a virtue with some, but with many almost a vice. These people abstain, to be sure: but the bi*tch sensuality leers enviously out of all that they do.... And how nicely the bi*tch sensuality knows how to beg for a piece of spirit, when a piece of flesh is denied her! You love tragedies and all that breaks the heart? But I am distrustful of your bi*tch sensuality.

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Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Hm, First I would like to say that I am not a satanist...

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Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires
- be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism also sanctions Even the asexual has a deviation - his asexuality. It is far more abnormal to have a lack of sexual desire (unless illness or old-age, or another valid reason has caused the wane) than it is to be sexually promiscuous. However, if a Satanist chooses sexual sublimination above overt
sexual expression, that is entirely his own affair. In many cases of sexual sublimination (or asexuality), any attempt to emancipate himself sexually would prove devastating to the asexual. Asexuals are invariably sexually sublimated by their jobs or hobbies. All the energy and driving interest which would normally be devoted to sexual activity is channeled into other pastimes or into their chosen occupations. If a person favors other interests over sexual activity, it is his right, and no one is justified in condemning him for it. However, the person should at least recognize the fact that this is a sexual sublimation...... The true Satanist is not mastered by sex any more than he is mastered by any of his other desires. As with all other pleasurable things, the Satanist is master of, rather than mastered by sex. He is not the perverted fiend who is just waiting for the opportunity to deflower every
young virgin, nor is he the skulking degenerate who furtively hangs around in the "dirty" bookstores, slavering over the "nasty" pictures. If pornography fills his needs for the moment, he unashamedly buys some "choice items" and guiltlessly peruses them at his leisure.... The watchword of Satanism is INDULGENCE instead of "abstinence" . . . BUT - it is not
“compulsion“.

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A non-sense that exhorts an abstract concept of freedom seeking to corrupt the society. Burn down this heretic.
:lol::lol:

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Originally Posted by kiki1982

Point taken about the slagging off. I was just afraid about people not getting my point of comparison... :)

But I disagree. I refuse to believe that all celibate people end up mad because they have been deprived of sex.

To me it is a question of mental strength. Not that I totally disagree with your point: someone who absolutely wants sex (has incontrollable urges) and who does not see the personal need for celibacy should not be forced to be celibate. I can see how that makes one unhappy, brings one into a depression with all nasty concequences. (There are enough homosexuals who used to have that problem when gayness was not accepted yet: they were not allowed to express themselves).

On the other hand, someone who chooses to be celibate and to keep that vow is objectively completely able to stay sane.

The problem with the priests is that at least a large portion of them was forced into it: because parents thought it was a nice idea, it was fashionable; because they were homosexual and did not want people to know (true at least in Europe); because it was a family tradition (second son becomes priest); they couldnot deal with women (afraid of them, so never dared to ask for a hand in marriage)... so all petty reasons, the same as why there were so many nuns about.

It was a joke, at least in Belgium, that the maid of the priest and the priest himself usually had a relationship, but given the social pressure (hence the many 'calings') to become one, I can really believe that the maid of the priest became a kind of mistress... Although I think now, callings are much more serious and young priests now do not so much manipulate the system (I'd like to believe).

Oh, my God. It's like I'm obsessed with gays here. I am sorry about it, but it is a good way of differentiating between forced celibacy and voluntary celibacy and it is not so long ago that it was still frowned upon or was even a crime (in Britain until 1967).

But allow me to say that I don't consider Bouddhist monks as hysteric.

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You know, it wasn't always required for Christian priests to be celibate. Heck, Peter was said to be the First Pope, and the Bible records that he was married. For people who claim to be founded on Peter, they seem to have went with Paul, who was celibate, yet he encouraged marriage to avoid adultery. Go figure.

Many of the early Popes had families, and at least one Pope was the son of another. Read Peter Tremayne's historical novels of Ireland, circa 600, where he deals with Rome becoming the center of Christianity, and enforcing celibacy.

God bless

Pen

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

Causality is almost never a fact.

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Well, they claim that the reason the people went off in the Salem Witch Trials were in mass hysteria, founded on the Puritan's lack of any sort of reason when it came to sex outside of marriage, and even during marriage.

The Shakers would often go off into what they termed some sort of glorification in which sex was involved despite the fact they their religion was based on a lack of sex. But what do I know, eh?

God bless

Pen.

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

Buddhist monks, and Hindu brahmanas, are definitely living different lives from normal society in today's day and age. They undergo what we think of as austerity, such as no more Sitcoms (but also no more commercials!), no more soda, no more chewing gum, alcohol, and so on; further, they engage their whole lives in spiritual practice. But often they are manifesting all good qualities, and so they are the most warm, attractive people. They have Shakti. Shakti means power. So you will find these people imbued with warmth, love, and what might be called a spiritual aura.

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I certainly will agree with you here.

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Originally Posted by Nietzsche

Hm, First I would like to say that I am not a satanist and that I read the book out of curiosity. Many of the philosophical ideas are pretty good, and there are influences from many philosophers I consider great on the work. However I also disagree with some of the points of Satanism, But hey you don't have to accept an idea to entertain it. That being said, I found the article on sexuality in the Satanic Bible rather interesting and relevant to this topic.



I agree with with this. I believe whether or not you are asexual by nature, or live an asexual life by choice, your focuses that might otherwise be centered on sexuality would be focused elsewhere. It's unbelievable the amount of emphasis people put on dating, sex, and relationships. In the end, if you live a chaste & celibate life you will not have these distractions. That being said, I agree with the poster I quoted that, people who do not want to remain celibate and / or chaste should not be forced to be celibate.

As you will often see me do, I'd like to reference Nietzsche. In Thus Spoke Zarathustra in the first part there is a section called "On Chastity" which can be found at this link though it is a different translation from the book I am using. http://www.geocities.com/thenietzsch...rapt1.htm#chas

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Or as Alestiar Crowley said, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

I mean no offence to anyone, but every time I've seen or heard this argument (lots of times) it's always people who aren't having sex who expound the joys of not having any.

Sex is one of the greatest pleasures of humankind. There appear to only be a few species which are able to achieve similar joy levels to us from sex, and failing to enjoy that by thinking something can be gained by going without it is just plain silliness, in my opinion.

Damn, those preachers, bible-bangers, Buddhas, Yogis and Imams have something to be proud of - denying ecstasy to billions of people.

And for what point? Even in the extremely unlikely event that there really was some physical benefit from going without, it would have to be something pretty damned amazing to make up for not having any sex.

In fact I do not subscribe to the fact one can be totally celeibate; and those who claim to have complete control over it are hypocrites. We cannot have complete control over humger, thirst and all the rest. In the same vein to think that we can have complete control over it and think that we can be celebrate we simply hypocrats.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I mean no offence to anyone, but every time I've seen or heard this argument (lots of times) it's always people who aren't having sex who expound the joys of not having any.

Sex is one of the greatest pleasures of humankind. There appear to only be a few species which are able to achieve similar joy levels to us from sex, and failing to enjoy that by thinking something can be gained by going without it is just plain silliness, in my opinion.

Damn, those preachers, bible-bangers, Buddhas, Yogis and Imams have something to be proud of - denying ecstasy to billions of people.

And for what point? Even in the extremely unlikely event that there really was some physical benefit from going without, it would have to be something pretty damned amazing to make up for not having any sex.

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It's not that being celibate gives joy. Spiritual life gives joy. But I know better than to "argue" that with an atheist.

And it's not just physical benefit, but also mental and spiritual - our physical health, well-being is not separate from our mental and spiritual well being. You know this. And it's not so much a benefit, again it's spiritual life which is necessary, and to practice some austerity is necessary for that. The alternative is to always seek one's pleasure and comfort. There must be balance in life.

And I am not against sex - just perhaps that it should be used for what it is obviously designed or evolved for - having children.

It is not that sex is wrong, Atheist. I do not believe I ever said that it was. And again, and this is quite fundamental, it's not that being celibate in a vacuum, if one still lives a materialistic life in every other way, will do any good, nor even be possible. Spiritual life gives us strength, as well as bliss - which is possible. It's possible to attain the state of sac-cid-ananda, which is basically infinite bliss and peace, not based on the senses.

But here is the simple thing, Atheist. Temporary pleasures, including sex, alcohol, TV, even more substantial but still temporary things such as house, nice clothes, car, nice toys (or gadgets), they do not satisfy permanently. If you have not, you should really read Siddhartha. This is my recommendation.


...the term I gave, sac-cid-ananda, is from Hinduism. But in Buddhism it is called enlightenment, realization of one's buddha-nature. The purpose of human life is self-realization. We have this unique opportunity. Buddhists, as well as Advaitins, achieve non-duality, and this is infinitely beyond all temoprary pleasures. There is no comparison.

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Originally Posted by Pendragon

Well, they claim that the reason the people went off in the Salem Witch Trials were in mass hysteria, founded on the Puritan's lack of any sort of reason when it came to sex outside of marriage, and even during marriage.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. That is very dubious and most certainly not factual. If you study philosophy a lot you'll learn that causality is nearly impossible to prove. We can have indications sometimes but even then it's not considered "proven." But in that particular case, that is very far-fetched to say that.

Instead of replying to anyone specific (so much has been said) I'd rather just give my opinion on the matter...
I think it all comes down to why people prefer to be celibate or sexually active. It doesn't have to be so complicated! If I choose to be celibate because I want to be, then that's okay.

The priest debate: I think the priests who broke the vow were probably never that serious about it to begin with. Maybe they became priets because they thought it would 'heal' them, or not expose them to temptation as much, or they became preists (as was mentioned on this thread) because it was expected by their families. Or maybe they wanted to be priests, and celibacy came with the job...it wasn't so much a choice for them. It could be anything, so I wouldn't say the reason they broke their vows was because celibacy is wrong or unnatural. That would make it an excuse and people really can't blame their choices on nature, we were blessed with free will and reasoning. So just because you want to have sex doesn't mean you have to have it.

I also don't agree that not having sex would be spiritually enhancing. If your sole focus in life is sex and anything related to it, I can see how that could hinder you spiritually. But then too much of anything could hinder you spiritually. So, the key is to live a balanced life...in my opinion that could include having sex or being celibate or chaste.

All of this is not about what we were taught or exposed to, or even what 'abilities' we were blessed with (I'm refering to kiki's statement), but on what we choose and why.

Celibacy is like giving up smoking (although I'm not comparing smoking to having sex), some people can just throw away the ciggies, and they are done, and for some it takes more effort for whatever reason. Some convince themselves that they will never be able to give it up. So to repeat myself, it's about what we choose and why. Please don't try to nit-pick my 'giving up smoking' comparison...it was just a simple way to explain what I think about the topic.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I mean no offence to anyone, but every time I've seen or heard this argument (lots of times) it's always people who aren't having sex who expound the joys of not having any.

Sex is one of the greatest pleasures of humankind. There appear to only be a few species which are able to achieve similar joy levels to us from sex, and failing to enjoy that by thinking something can be gained by going without it is just plain silliness, in my opinion.

Damn, those preachers, bible-bangers, Buddhas, Yogis and Imams have something to be proud of - denying ecstasy to billions of people.

And for what point? Even in the extremely unlikely event that there really was some physical benefit from going without, it would have to be something pretty damned amazing to make up for not having any sex.

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And I find, it is always the people who are having sex who expound the joys of sex. Obviously, if you have chosen or experience a certain life style and it woks for you, you are going to advertise the joys of it.

I too am an atheist, I have no religious creed per se nor do I believe in a God, but some people just don't care for sex or relationships. It is not denial of ecstasy, if you find these things just to be a distraction there is no sense in pressuring someone who is asexual or has chosen an asexual life into sexuality. Don't forget, my fellow non-believer, that in the absence of a God, there is no absolute moral convictions exist as there is no supreme deity to force them onto us. Thsly, all morality is man made. Morals are formed on personal perception of life, emotion, and right and wrong. Whether you want to see the world as Anton LaVey, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Hegel, Kant, Nietzsche, or whoever... it's irrelevant, the important thing is to have some sort of system on deciding what is right or wrong to you. For you, you like sex, and crave it. You obviously find it enjoyable and necessary. But don't forget, sexuality exists for one thing, and by proxy, love also exists for this, finding a suitable mate to raise children with. Purely based on that, there is no reason for sexuality if one does not desire children, or does not want to be married, why should that individual be pressured or be made to feel wrong for not pursuing such herd instincts? Sexuality is an important part in psychological development yes, but if one does not feel it necessary one should not be made to take part in it.

Those who would like to reap the absolute benefits of celibacy should give married life a try!

I hear it is the sure path to "Celibate Town".

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Those who would like to reap the absolute benefits of celibacy should give married life a try!

I hear it is the sure path to "Celibate Town".

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:lol::lol: You are definitely spot on!!