Poetry Bookclub: Yeats's The Wild Swans at Coole

A beautiful one! At least not wandering in the world of the dead but in the world of dreams. It is interesting that being worn out with dreams, he dreams about the beauties which is represented by the beauty of the lady, and in the middle of dreaming makes himself return to the world of reality not knowing if he was dreaming or not indeed. I love this one. And a few questions,

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I AM worn out with dreams;
A weather-worn, marble triton
Among the streams;

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I wonder if this marble triton refers to the mythological Greek god, the son of Poseidon, or just a kind of sea shell? If it refers to the son of Poseidon, is there any significant relationship between this triton and the lady?

Does this lady represent his poetical genius in his old age, and when he says

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O would that we had met
When I had my burning youth;

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does he want to state that this poetic genius is now in its height or not? Or just it is a dream?

The Rhyme scheme is aba cdcd efef ghgh aba, What does this repetition of the first three lines signify, returning and remaining to/with the same dreams? And this scheme represents different phases in his thoughts?

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Originally Posted by sofia82

I wonder if this marble triton refers to the mythological Greek god, the son of Poseidon, or just a kind of sea shell? If it refers to the son of Poseidon, is there any significant relationship between this triton and the lady?

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I beleive it was meant to be the Tritins of the Greeks, I saw it as they are the ones older than the gods whom have now fallen back into obsoleation. They lost thier place to make room for the "new" ones, being the Gods.

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Originally Posted by sofia82

Does this lady represent his poetical genius in his old age, and when he says

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That is an interesting thought, the way he talks about her being upon a page. Perhaps she is his muse

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Originally Posted by sofia82

does he want to state that this poetic genius is now in its height or not? Or just it is a dream?

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I would say, that he is trying to suggest that the youth was his hieght.

Yes, poem #3 was missed, and a very popular poem it is too. But lets talk about this one first, I guess, since it's already quite underway, and there is no need to digress now.

This poem seems to me at first a play on Marlowe's Shepard to his Live, and other such pastoral style poems written in English, and the Greek tradition. He is lamenting, it would seem, his inability to go on consummating his relationship with the "nymph", in this case referring to young women, because he has grown old by the stream, and therefore cannot partake any more.

The poem is loaded with allusions to old age, regret, and rings similar to Frost's Road not Taken, in the sense that it ponders, and laments, the linear flow of time, and talks about the regrets of aging, of knowing you had wasted time in your youth, and not being able to change anything.

The poem itself seems rather simple, and flawed by language in many areas (the language has not reached the perfection Yeats achieved in other poems, and relies on simplistic imagery and repetitive words and lines), but still has something, that great line of irony:

"Delighted to be but wise,
For men improve with the years;
And yet and yet
Is this my dream, or the truth? "

Yeats is asking if such knowledge and experience is said to increase man, are we but lying to ourselves. He is unable to do what he likes best, that is, attract and have a relationship with a nymph, and he realizes that everything else, the experience, the knowledge of the world, the successes and failures in his life, mean nothing, because though he understands, he cannot experience, and therefore is living through what cannot or had not been done, instead of what he wishes could be done.

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Originally Posted by JBI

This poem seems to me at first a play on Marlowe's Shepard to his Live, and other such pastoral style poems written in English, and the Greek tradition. He is lamenting, it would seem, his inability to go on consummating his relationship with the "nymph", in this case referring to young women, because he has grown old by the stream, and therefore cannot partake any more.

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That's a good parallel, JBI, but I think the theme may be more general here. The woman appears to the poet as more than just a romantic interest. She's the embodiment of the speaker's idea of beauty, and the poet is noticing--with mixed feelings--that he isn't as swayed by her as he used to be. Marlowe's pastoral is good place to start, but the poem goes beyond it.

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Originally Posted by JBI

The poem is loaded with allusions to old age, regret, and rings similar to Frost's Road not Taken, in the sense that it ponders, and laments, the linear flow of time, and talks about the regrets of aging, of knowing you had wasted time in your youth, and not being able to change anything.

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Right, but just as in "The Wild Swans at Coole" the lament is softened by some positive feeling of wisdom. The line "For men improve with the years" gives him something to hold on to.

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Originally Posted by JBI

The poem itself seems rather simple, and flawed by language in many areas (the language has not reached the perfection Yeats achieved in other poems, and relies on simplistic imagery and repetitive words and lines), but still has something, that great line of irony:

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The language is simple, but I think the pace of the poem is very well-done. It speeds up when he contemplates woman--as though his heart is racing. Then, it slows and breaks into a regular cadence when he talks about his wisdom. I don't think those four lines are irony, though. They seem more like ambiguity. The question at the end goes unanswered.

I interpreted the "for men improve with years" to be sarcastic, ironic.

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That's a good parallel, JBI, but I think the theme may be more general here. The woman appears to the poet as more than just a romantic interest. She's the embodiment of the speaker's idea of beauty, and the poet is noticing--with mixed feelings--that he isn't as swayed by her as he used to be. Marlowe's pastoral is good place to start, but the poem goes beyond it.

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I agree with Quark. It is a good parallel, but more than that one. Although both can be correct. It is a kind of lamentation or elegy but it depends on what you consider this lady in beauty. If she is the embodiment of romantic interest as the love, yes it is parallel to Marlowe's poetry and she is the nymph. But if she is the emblem of idea of beauty (Quark said) and I call it artistic beauty (as Dark Muse said the Muse), it is more than a pastoral poetry with romantic interest.

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Pleased to have filled the eyes
Or the discerning ears,

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I think "filled the eyes and discerning ears" represent the art in different forms (for Yeats maybe poetry) besides the beauty of the lady. And this "discerning ears" may represent the songs/poems by the Muses. So, in addition to the beauty in appearance there is the beauty in sounds (spoken/musical).

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Right, but just as in "The Wild Swans at Coole" the lament is softened by some positive feeling of wisdom. The line "For men improve with the years" gives him something to hold on to.

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JBI said it is ironic and sarcastic, and you said it gives him something to hold on to. A question, does Yeats put the idea of poetic genius and experience against each other? (Experience vs. genius)?

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The language is simple, but I think the pace of the poem is very well-done. It speeds up when he contemplates woman--as though his heart is racing. Then, it slows and breaks into a regular cadence when he talks about his wisdom. I don't think those four lines are irony, though. They seem more like ambiguity. The question at the end goes unanswered.

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I like the idea of the pace of the poem.

Yeats very subtly, even sub-consciously brings celtic

sybols and druidic concepts to these poems, giving

them another dimension and fatalistic ambiance.

This comes off with the lightest of touch, in my

view. In "An Irish Airman Forsees His Death" the

concept of fate, the cross (celtic cross, melding the

Christian cross with a circle), the "lonely impulse of

delight" which here is to die at an apex of life. Also

the use of balance, also a pagan concept with much

wider parameters than today's usage. In "The

Collar-bone of a Hare", the title refers to a symbol

from celtic/pagan usage where a druid would look

through the circular hole in said bone to see the

past or similar type divination. Playing the pipes is

an obvious reference and piercing with a gimlet has

the extended meaning as a corkscrew would twist

and pierce simultaneously. Laughing over quiet

(untroubled) waters is equally druidic. These

concepts add to these poems in an almost

diaphanous way, but with heavy effect.

Anyone care to bring this relaxed thread back to life.

I wonder, too. What about next poem?!

I do hope the discussion continues. I'd like to stop in and make a post every once in a while, but I'm too busy elsewhere on LitNet to contribute frequently.

Where are we in The Wild Swans at Coole, anyway?

An Irish Airman foresees his Death


I KNOW that I shall meet my fate
Somewhere among the clouds above;
Those that I fight I do not hate
Those that I guard I do not love;
My country is Kiltartan Cross, 5
My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
No likely end could bring them loss
Or leave them happier than before.
Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
Nor public man, nor cheering crowds, 10
A lonely impulse of delight
Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
I balanced all, brought all to mind,
The years to come seemed waste of breath,
A waste of breath the years behind 15
In balance with this life, this death.

... anyone still interested in this?

Oh I did not know a new poem was posted. For some reason I did not get the e-mail thingy to notify me of new replies untill just now