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haha yeah... the iPod is totally different though. Having your music collection on the go is far more important than having 200 books on you. The iPod/MP3 players revolutionised the way people buy/listen to music, I can't see the e-reader will do the same. I'm no Luddite, I just don't see that the e-reader is anything other than a gimmickQuote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
They called it a brick, over-priced, too delicate, mac-bound etc, and the famous 'what do you need 500 songs for?' question also popped up every now and then. Of course hindsight is always 20-20, nobody believed in any future for that product back then. I will definitely dig up these posts in not too distant a future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
who is 'they' - I always thought the iPod was a great ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
I'm sure some people will end up buying an e-reader who have previously sworn never to be interested, but I'm fairly confident that I wont be one!
I don't think you can really draw a comparison between mp3 players and eBook readers, sadly. At least I think its fair to say eBook readers will not take off in the same way that mp3 players did.
1)The younger generations, who are the early adopters of technology, don't read as much as they listen to music – its “cool” to listen to a heavy metal band at 120db on an mp3 player but somehow I don't see kids deriving the same kudos from reading an eBook.
2)Any music is easily available, legally or otherwise, in the mp3 format. How many books that are in the book store right now are easily available in a single, free, eBook format? Its not like you can take a paperback home, rip it to pdf and share it with the world (not that I'm endorsing piracy but lets face it, piracy made mp3 players possible).
3)Mp3 already had a popular base before the mp3 player came along, everyone I knew in the years immediately preceding mp3 players had vast library's of mp3's on their computer – I know nobody (among my peers) that has even a single eBook (except myself).
4)The eBook reader devices cost way too much, even the original mp3 players that could barely hold a CD's worth of music and were the size of a pack of cards were affordable.
5)Ebook reader devices are too unwieldy, an mp3 player can be put in your pocket and be barely noticeable but eBook readers are chunky because of the screen – foldable or rollable displays are definitely needed.
6)Publishers are loath to put their books in an eBook format because they, probably rightly, fear piracy. The only piracy protection they have is the fact that you can't readily convert a paperback into an eBook, most of the pirates work is done already if the publisher releases an ebook.
Despite all this I think there is a definite niche, and not a small one, for eBook readers. I long for the day when decent eBook readers are affordable and have folding/rolling screens, this may still be years off but at that time I can assure you I won't be buying any more "real" books.
Actually, if I was to try and steal e-books from the net (which I wouldn't, as I find reading e-books terrible) I could come up with about 40 gigs of text files in English alone. I am sure, since the availability of these books exists, that there must be someone who is stealing them, yet I doubt this can be healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
Lets say the average novel, or whatever, is 350 pages, then it would take about 20 seconds a page to scan, so about 2 hours to steal a book. That is, of course, assuming they don't scan 2 pages at once, which would cut said time in half.
Either way though, I am praying eBooks do not take off, as it would ruin reading completely. Firstly it would destroy traditional publishing, which would harm the writing community severely, by squishing out the little guys completely, and secondly it would disrupt the natural process of writing in general, being that it wouldn't allow for books to live and die the same way.
The implications of an e-reader are immense. Just think of all the unknown books on Project Gutenberg, or even the untouched author's forums here, which still don't have their first posts. Those books, and every new book added to their pile will not have the chance to go out of print, and will merely float around in the same pile, until new technology happens to come along, and change the way we read again.
Either way though, I don't think the current generation will break away from books, but the millennium generation which are 8- right now will have a profound effect on the way technology influences the arts.
Can you elaborate? i'm really not sure I follow. How could eReader devices possibly be bad for the writing community? and what could they possibly have to do with project Gutenberg?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Ruin reading!? that sounds a bit overly dramatic don't you think?
An eReader allows for the access of books without having an actual physical book. As such, one needs to know where to find the books. Project Gutenberg, for instance, is a giant stockpile of books, which, even if you read at all times, would take several lifetimes to complete (in just English, in all languages even longer). The immensity of the collection is made to be a problem, as there is nothing saying what gives more space, and what doesn't.
As a result, we are overwhelmed, and only the works that we know about can be read. There can be no browsing anymore, since one does not actually have the physical book in front of them. Sure, they can read a piece, but is that the same? Is the bookstore feeling of picking up a book by an author you haven't heard about, flipping through the pages, reading bits, even sitting there for an hour, the same? No it isn't, and can't be done, as there are too many books on the shelves.
Then we need to go with advertisement, and recommendations. How is a little guy supposed to compete against major publishers mass-advertising books by major authors? They simply cannot. It is not possible. Add in that the book shelves will not empty, and new stock will not replace the old stock, but only add onto it, then you have a problem.
Instead of having 2-3 Dan Brown books, Stephen King books, Daniel Steel books, David Silva books, etc. You will have every book published by these authors in the history of their careers available in one spot. These guys today take up so much of the shelf room, and their books are more likely to have faces forward than the little guy. How exactly is a budding poet supposed to have his work viewed by the public? As it is, publishers are trying to build themselves up, and many presses go bankrupt trying. Poetry, personal essays, and Short Stories have an even more difficult time starting out, as those genres are typically unread by the majority of the reading population. If you take away their tiny bit of shelf space, how can they be read, because, as I pointed out earlier, you lose the store browsing ability. No one is going to buy a poetry anthology unless they have a) heard great things, or b) have read a little bit of it. At an anthology of 100 pages, as the standard these days seems to be, what can they possibly sample?
The little guy will be overwhelmed. But not just that, the foreign guy will be overwhelmed. Canadians read far more American, British, and French lit than Canadian literature as it is. Imagine what will happen when the small Canadian presses are destroyed, and the massive American firms start advertising on the net. Utter chaos. Already if you go to bookstores, you see the American colonialism in effect. I recently came back from Europe, and, after visiting countless bookstores (a local pass time of mine on days where museums are closed) I realized that all of them contain Stephen King's new book (something Key, I cannot remember the name), Harry Potter, and other mass-produced works. The romance novels are the same; a few local names, but in many cases, an overwhelming amount of American names. In fact, cross-genre they all seem to have American books over representing themselves.
Of course, there are possible advantages; a) it will allow public domain books to be conveniently stored on one little device, and carried around. b) It will allow authors the potential of making more than 10%ish on booksales, and c) it will allow people to buy books without going out. But these are all minor things. These are all well and good, but look at the other effects; people will be overwhelmed with what they have to read, that they won't no which way to turn, being that they can literally carry the "western canon" or even the "world canon" around with them in their pocket. b) 10% royalties are an annoyance, any writer will tell you, but 100% of 0 is still 0. The increase in royalties only benefits those who have large sales; good luck with that if you haven't been published before, or if you haven't had your name in circulation. and c) sure you can enjoy not leaving to get your books, but that takes away one of the most enjoyable aspects of reading - going out and finding something that you haven't heard about, or that you haven't read, and deciding to buy it over something else, or deciding to buy it for someone, or deciding to take a chance with it, and then sitting at home with it, or giving it to a friend, and watching yourself fall in love with the work, or watching your friend fall in love with the work.
JBI, here we disagree. Digital technology is still in its infancy, but I agree with one observer who said the current disruption is about economics, not literature. I don't know how old you are, but I can glory in the degree of access which will be there for my 13 year old neice which isn't there for a 45 year old disabled woman like myself. I cannot get into certain bookstores or libraries to research--and, the developed world is already overwhelmed with information--whether or not one browses in chain distributors or through Google, Gutenberg, and their imitators.
Before I came online I read two newspapers, The Philadelphia Inquirer, and The New York Times.
Now I read Slate, The Washington Post, Dick Poleman, Politico, The Washington Monthly, in addition to others. This is both to keep me current and to look for market opportunities. Arguably, my byline would have never gotten in The Philadelphia Inquirer had it not been for the fact that I can stay current with the media.
There are things to be missed about traditional paper media, the way one can fall into a book or a high quality periodical--but the digital age is here, traditional copyright protection will give way, it has to, and writers will eventually adapt to a new order which is still being defined.
JBI, Yes there may be some chaos if eBooks really take off, much like the music industry has experienced, but like the music industry I don't see that its really going to fundamentally damage creativity. Many of the arguments you make were made against mp3 and music sharing but in reality its had little discernible impact.
Regarding your points about obscurity in a book store free world, to be fair I think this can be solved by simply replacing the book store with the online book store, if the browsing features are good enough then there will be little difference between the real and the virtual. You don't have to overwhelm the consumer with every book ever made just because you can, its perfectly possible to have a "current stock" section of an online book store as well as a full archive.
A current stock is less advantageous to the eBook store. They will be like Amazon, having everything, but even worse, will literally have everything. No author is going to pull his book off the eBook shelves, as no author wants, even in the paper-world, their book off the shelves. Therefore, even if they stop being advertised, they will still be there, and they will be hit when the author's name is entered.
Either way though, Marshall McLuhan, in 1964 released a philosophical book called Understanding Media, in which he goes over the different effects different forms of media have, and where he came to the conclusion, The Medium is the Message. What this study tried to show, was how our mind responds differently depending how we get our information. He speaks on radio and television, and how it has a different effect than reading.
What I guess the point of bringing McLuhan into the picture, was to try and put things in perspective. No matter what, eReaders will have a profound impact if they go mainstream. The question is though, whether it will be good or bad. I think though, that the bad will outweigh the good, especially in a society that is already suffering a decline in reading, yet then again, I could be some sort of Cassandra, or I could be some sort of Savonarola. Who knows.
I have no doubt that our children and our childrens, children will be reading books on an e readers, there is only one way in this digital world and that is forward (though there will be some people that don't think it is forward). It is a shame to think that they will miss out on what I think is one of the best things about reading, that is spending hours in my local bookshop deciding what to read next or the excitement of walking into a second hand shop and finding that book that you have been looking for in perfect condition at a really great price.
Music sharing and MP3 downloads have completely changed the music industry... big labels are dropping artists who can not shift large units and therefore that stifles creativity because new bands are not being given a chance... self-publishing is the result but that means less cash and the necessity of said artists having to get proper jobs to finance their music careers which will inevitably have a very discernable effect on their creativity... I was a music journalist for five years and have seen first hand hundreds of smaller labels close down because of illegal downloading etc... without smaller independent labels some bands/artists will never get music released... obviously creativity is not something that is directly governed by market conditions, because you either have talent or you dont. however if you have to work 40 odd hours a week, the time spent on being creative is less and therefore it will have an impact on the number of artists/bands that are successfulQuote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
i wouldn't want to speculate on the effect of eBooks on the publishing industry in general because the markets are completely different, i just think you are wrong to say that mp3 and music sharing has had little discernable impact on the music industry, because it blatantly has.
I don't think I said it has had no impact on the industry, I realise the impact has been huge but to be fair what does the consumer care about the record companies? The point is that I don't think that there has been a noticeable impact on the end consumer, either from the point of reduced choice or quality (pop music is as bad as ever). I haven't heard a single person - average joe - saying "boy, music has really gone down hill since mp3 showed up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
I'm not denying that the publishing industry could be in for a nasty shake up if eBooks take off (5, 10, or 15 years down the line), but at the end of the day books aren't written by publishing companies and they aren't read (consumed) by publishing companies, they are middle men, and they will just need to evolve into whatever their new role might be. We will always need editors and quality control and promotion so there will always be a role of some sort for publishers.
Whether it is music, book publishing, or video content, neither the economic nor legal framework has caught up with the technology yet. Copyright and intellectual property issues are particularly nettlesome, and I am not much of an expert. Giving a literary website first rights for nothing is something of a joke, especially if the domain goes up for sale and the *&^% content vanishes. Forgive my expletive but I've had this happen and it upsets me. For a writer to give away her work simply for exposure in someone else's pages is one thing. To have it disappear because the site doesn't occupy three dimensional space is another. Are my first rights technically still gone? First rights are how a writer is paid, thus valuable, as of yet. At least with a paper journal you still have the evidence of having been a contributor, even if the publication ceases.Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
But even with purchased content, publishers usually give you the right to resell in 90 days, which rarely happens. Authors do get reprinted, but it isn't a regular occurrence.
Copyright and intellectual property law is already byzantine, and although I cannot predict how, the technical and economic pressures will no doubt lead to significant restructuring.
Candidly,PAPER books is more stimulating than e-books.Common sense,my friend,reading form Internet makes you genuinely jaded.One advantage of e-books is that you do not need to buy nor borrow the books.Furthermore,Internet is literally fast.