I haven't decided yet... But either way I'm a wild girl!
;)
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I haven't decided yet... But either way I'm a wild girl!
;)
Do Muslims love Jesus?
Mohammed, who, like all arabs, was descended from Abraham through Ishmael - not Isaac and Jacob/Israel. Mohammed was not religious, he was just a believer, who strove himself, and taught the striving, to do God's Will. Mohammed was given the third part of The Bible, known as the Koran (the gospel of unity), in order to enlighten and unite all mankind. The True Koran, which can be found in the King of kings' Bible, is not the Hadith, and is in complete harmony with both the Old and New Covenants/Testaments of The Bible, when correctly interpreted. The Hadith is what the Meccans wrongfully use as a foundation for the moslem/islamic religion, just as the non-Israelite jews wrongfully use the Talmud as the basis for the jewish religion, instead of following the True Torah. Although a true, racial Israelite is more likely to answer the Call to come out of Babylon and fight for God, you should think of every person as a potential ally and give them the same chance to prove themselves (Matt. 12:30, Luke 11:23, John 8:30/King of kings' Bible) through their works.
greenburke, I have a question. The way I understand it, is that God transformed himself into man, to be able to meet us. Since God, by himself being a god, cannot meet with man, unless through a mediator. Man cannot see him since he's God, and cannot interact with him, therefore God has to transform himself into man. Now I can understand that, it makes sense.
But why is it said that Jesus is the son of God. Not God. But the SON of God. This makes it kind of unclear. And then, I think of when Jesus yells out on the cross : God, why have you forsaken me. I mean if he is God transformed into man, then how is he saying that. That is a bit blurry to me, hope u can explain that to me. :)
Ah, I was thinking about it for a moment, and now I understand completely. It will take some time to think it through so don't get frustrated if you really want to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_182_88
Do you mind if I give it a whirl, dark?
The easiest way to think of it is in the form of a circle. That's right, a nice big circle on a piece of paper.
So, draw a circle on a paper. That whole circle represents God, and God equals the Trinity, so that whole circle is also known as the Trinity
(Trinity = God).
Now, make a legend. Within the legend box, draw a small circle with an equals sign next to it, like this:
O = God (Trinity)
That's what it should look like.
Moving on...
The whole circle, the Trinity (God), has 3 equal parts. Therefore, each part would take up 33 1/3% of the circular area. No mathematics is involved; just go ahead and divide the whole circle (God = Trinity) into 3 pieces.
Okay...
Label each piece with an individual number, starting at 1 for the first part and ending at 3 for the last.
In the legend, continue by further defining those numbers. When done, your legend should read as follows:
O (not a zero, a circle) = God (Trinity)
1 = The Holy Spirit
2= The Father
3 = The Son
(It doesn't matter which number is which)
What does that tell you?
It says that the Trinity has 3 parts. They are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
And what do all 3 parts form when united together as ONE?
The 3 parts form the Trinity, all 3 parts in unity, which is GOD.
The whole circle is the Trinity, right? Yes.
So, as you can see from the circle diagram:
The Holy Spirit is a part OF the Trinity.
The Father is a part OF the Trinity.
The Son is a part OF The Trinity.
Because the Trinity (the whole circle) is another term for God, each part OF the Trinity is a part OF God.
The Father OF God (the whole circle). The Son OF God (the whole circle). The Holy Spirit OF God (whole circle). (Or, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)
W00t! :brow:
When someone says "God the Father", they do not means God's daddy. They mean that the Father is a part of what we refer to as "God", that whole circle!
Ask yourself, what is God? God is purely a socially-constructed term to describe what is actually all 3 parts of the circle (Trinity) in unity. That whole circle, once again, is the Trinity/ God (because God is all 3 parts of the circle in unity, or the whole circle which is the Trinity according to the Bible, right? Yes.).
That is all! Those 3 beautiful and extraordinary pieces in unity are what people praise! God.
Jesus Christ who was the Father manifested in the flesh, the Holy Spirit, and the Father (the supernatural force)! All together, they are what we refer to as God in all its splendor and magnificence.
Ah, yeah! Make sense now?
Okay, now that you understand what God is, let's talk about each individual part of the Trinity (the whole circle).
The Father
The Father is usually confused with God because people don't understand the aforementioned where I explained to you how to understand the Trinity. So, they use the word God many times where they could easily say the Father. But, saying God is just equally acceptable and right because God encompasses everything, all 3 parts, including the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Right? Right!
The Father is the supernatural force that created all of its existence. Do not try and apply a skin, human face, or mortal qualities to the Father because "He" is not human, nor a he. It defies all human comprehension, and it is because of that very reason that the Father, the supernatural force, sent Jesus Christ, the Son of God (not God's son but "Son of God" as in that part OF the circle- that part OF God- that part OF the Trinity), to the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth to be conceived by Mary by Immaculate Conception.
As someone stated before, we cannot see the Father because we are simply not worthy. It is too powerful and too beautiful for our eyes to see. The Father (that incomprehensible supernatural force that created all) knew this (it is omnipotent and omniscient) so it had Mary begat Jesus who was the manifestation of the Father in the human flesh, or the Son of God. Then, and only then, could we know of the Father by way of his son Jesus Christ, the MESSIAH. The Father sent Jesus to the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth to preach the Father's word, but more importantly, Jesus was sent here to die for our sins on the cross to render us our salvation for eternity as long as we accepted him as our savior.
The Son
He, Jesus Christ, is none other than the Father (same thing as the Father (force) of God) manifested in the flesh so we could know Him, Jesus. The belief in His Son, Jesus Christ, as our Savior gives us salvation and eternal bliss in the Kingdom of Heaven by our God. We achieve salvation by God through the Son of God.
In order to answer your question:
It's rather easy. When the Father manifested Jesus in the flesh, Jesus was stripped of his "Godhood" by the Father because it was necessary for Jesus to set an example for the rest of humanity without having the nobility of a God bestowed upon him. You see, if we humans saw Jesus as the God, we would never have believed that we could follow in his footsteps. After all, we would have thought, "I can't refrain from sin like YOU Jesus, you are a GOD!" Because he was stripped of his "Godhood", the people saw Jesus Christ as mere human flesh just like you and I. Jesus faced all the sins we faced today and he never gave in. He wanted to lead by example to show us that, if he could do it, we could do it too!Quote:
God, why have you forsaken me.
Jesus had faith in the Father. Absolute faith. When nails were placed into the joints of his wrists and his feet, and another through his genitals (more than likely to seat his pelvis against the crucifix), it was the mortal flesh that made Jesus cry unto the Father and ask why God the Father had forsaken him. You nor I can ever imagine the pain Jesus Christ suffered that day when he was crucified. You must understand that, while Jesus had absolute faith in the Father, he was human, just like you and I. It was simply natural after enduring all that pain for him to request the Father to take him away from the pain.
You understand now, dark?
the Holy Spirit
Simply think of the Holy Spirit as a part of the Father, the supernatural force, that is bestowed within the body of a true believer of God. In John, the gift of the Holy Spirit is equivalent to eternal life, knowledge of God (Trinity), power to obey, and communion with one another (believer) and with the Father. When you receive God into your life, you receive the Holy Spirit from the Father which helps guide you through life. It's a part of the Father's supernatural force. Easy huh?
What better way to communion with the Father than the Father granting you a part of itself...a part of that force that comprises the Father. Through the Holy Spirit, we know the Father and subsequently "God" becuase God encompasses the Father.
Thank you Diadem for this wonderful explanation :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diadem
mohammed (peace be upon him) is one of greatest prophets ,
Muhammad (pbuh) was an illiterate but wise and well-respected man who was born in Makkah in the year 570 C.E., at a time when Christianity was not yet fully established in Europe. His first years were marked by the deaths of his parents. Since his father died before his birth, his uncle, Abu Talib, from the respected tribe of Quraysh, raised him. As Muhammad (pbuh) grew up, he became known for his truthfulness, generosity and sincerity, so that he was sought after for his ability to arbitrate in disputes. His reputation and personal qualities also led to his marriage, at the age of twenty-five, to Khadijah, a widow whom he had assisted in business. Thenceforth, he became an important and trusted citizen of Makkah. Historians describe him as calm and meditative.
Muhammad (pbuh) never felt fully content to be part of a society whose values he considered to be devoid of true religious significance. It became his habit to retreat from time to time to the cave of Hira', to meditate near the summit of Jabal al-Nur, the "Mountain of Light", near Makkah.
At the age of 40, while engaged in one such meditative retreat, Muhammad (pbuh) received his first revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. This revelation, which continued for twenty-three years, is known as the Qur'an, the faithful recording of the entire revelation of God. The first revelation read:
"Recite: In the name of your Lord Who created man from a clot (of blood). Recite: Your Lord is Most Noble, Who taught by the pen, taught man what he did not know." [96:1-5]
It was this reality that he gradually and steadily came to learn and believe, until he fully realized that it is the truth.
His first convert was Khadijah, whose support and companionship provided necessary reassurance and strength. He also won the support of some of his relatives and friends. Three basic themes of the early message were the majesty of the one, unique God, the futility of idol worship, the threat of judgment, and the necessity of faith, compassion and morality in human affairs. All these themes represented an attack on the crass materialism and idolatry prevalent in Makkah at the time. So when he began to proclaim the message to others the Makkans rejected him. He and his small group of followers suffered bitter persecution, which grew so fierce that in the year 622 C.E., God gave them the command to emigrate. This event, the Hijrah (migration), in which they left Makkah for the city of Madinah, some 260 miles to the north, marked the beginning of a new era and thus the beginning of the Muslim calendar. During his suffering, Muhammad (pbuh) drew comfort from the knowledge revealed to him about other prophets, such as Abraham, Joseph, and Moses, each of whom had also been persecuted and tested.
After several years and some significant battles, the Prophet and his followers were able to return to Makkah, where they forgave their enemies and established Islam definitively. By the time the Prophet died, at the age of 63, the greater part of Arabia had accepted Islam, and within a century of his death, Islam had spread as far west as Spain and as far east as China. It was clear that the message was not limited to Arabs; it was for the whole of humanity.
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The Prophet's sayings (Hadith), are revelation. The number of sayings collected by his followers and scholars is close to 10,000 in total. Some typical examples of his sayings are as follows:
"To pursue knowledge is obligatory on every believing (man and woman)." [Ibn Majah]
"Removing a harmful thing from the road is charity." [Bukhari, Muslim]
"Those who do not show tenderness and love cannot expect to have tenderness shown to them." [Bukhari]
"Adore Allah (God) as though you see Him; even if you do not see Him, He nonetheless sees you." [Bukhari, Muslim]
Although Muhammad is deeply loved, revered and emulated by Muslims as God's final messenger, he is not an object of worship.
regards
lover of jesus, is there anywhere in the Hadeeth that blatantly advocates violence against non-Muslims? Is there another source of scripture from God that Muslims may use other than the Hadeeth?
Regards,
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diadem
the really God should nt has many parts ,one is smaller than other parts ...
or weaker
also:
God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not. While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seethe the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful; He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
. God does not have a God...but Jesus did have a God. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diadem
ofcource no, all muslims know that killing an innocent soul is abig sin ,
we are not allowed to kill any non-muslims expect the soldiers who invade our country to protect our selves this is in islam
if you mean 9-11 , be sure that islam is the first one who rejacts these things
no one has the right to end the lives of other
prophet muhammed (peace be upon him) had non- muslim neighbor he allways tried to invite him to islam by talking not by killing
regards
Disclaimer: I understand that you're Muslim, and I respect that, so I just wanted to let you know before I dissect your points. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by lover of jesus
Trinity: There is only one God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three eternal and coequal "Persons" (I call them "parts" for clarity), the same in substance but distinct in subsistence: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
You are correct. When the Father manifested Jesus Christ in the flesh, Jesus did not have godly powers.Quote:
God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not.
No, you're not looking at all the integral points. You must ask yourself:Quote:
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seethe the Father do..."
(John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful; He is also the source of all power and authority.
That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
Why was Jesus Christ on Earth in the first place?
What was his purpose?
Adam caused man to fall from grace by his sin during his dominion on Earth. Jesus was sent to Earth and conceived by Mary, and afterwards his purpose was to render salvation to humanity by sacrificing himself on the cross for the sins of God's creations (man).
1 John 3:8
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Correct. There is only one God since Christianity is a monotheistic religion. Therefore, God would not have a God. There is only one God, but God has three invidual parts that each represent God itself.Quote:
God does not have a God...
Jesus Christ himself was God. The Father was God as well. Not A God, but THE God. Understand now?Quote:
but Jesus did have a God.
It is evident by the following scripture:
(Paul the Apostle speaks to Jesus Christ)
Hebrews 1:8
Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by annointing you with the oil of joy.
What does that mean?
Simply put, each individual part of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was God. In that scripture, it says "your God" which is referring to the Father. Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
Correct.Quote:
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others.
Yes, refer back to Hebrews 1:8. Jesus Christ is God. The Father is God. That is why he said, "...unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." Why? Well, because the Father is God, and so is Jesus Christ.Quote:
But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)
Father = God
Jesus Christ (Son) = God
Holy Spirit = God
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = God
It's hard for the humam mind to comprehend. Jesus (the Father manifested in the flesh) was calling unto the Father and asking why he has forsaken him. And, of course, referring to John 20:17, the Father is God. Right? Yes.Quote:
He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense?
No, it says "my Father". Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was, as evident by the scripture, talking to the Father.Quote:
When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself?
Clearly, as evident by Hebrews, he is God. :nod:Quote:
That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
Every part of the Trinity is God, and God is the Trinity as a whole.
Confusing, somewhat. Hopefully, I make it easy to understand further up in the thread.
Thank you for your response. It is much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by lover of jesus
As we all know, God's word is sometimes interpreted incorrectly. I am curious and I hope you will assist me in understanding this: Would you be able to speculate what scriptures some Islamic radicals are using in order to justify their killing of innocent civilians?
I am not referring to 9/11. I actually believe the American government was responsible for that. I was actually watching a documentary on television last night, and it had an interview with an Islamic radical being held in an Israeli prison. He was quite certain in his religious view that Jews had to be killed and he would be hailed as a martyr by doing so and 72 virgins would await him in Paradise upon his arrival.
Do you know why they believe that? I'd like to understand their perspective and how they arrive at that conclusion.
Regards
If is true that jesus is apart of one G OD , WHY this God send one of his part to Hill , is it logical to send him to hill inorder to purify the people from sins and to forgive their sins
Really God could do that without harm himselfe
There are many part of bible has mentioned about jesus as prophet ,ihave mentioned many of them
And also about muhammed as prophet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diadem
as you said he is radical, and prophet muhammed warns us from that
the really martyr is the one who died for his country ,family,or religion sake
Actually, no he could not have done it any other way; it is perfectly logical. Humans cannot bear to witness God the Father.Quote:
Originally Posted by lover of jesus
Exodus 33:20
But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
Therefore, the Father manifested Jesus Christ (Son of God/ God) in human flesh so we may come to know the Father, but more importantly because there needed to be a blood atonement in order to purify us of our sins. Jesus Christ was that sacrifice whom died on the cross for our sins.
Yes, any many scriptures specifically state that Jesus Christ is God. I provided the Hebrews 1:8 scipture, for example.Quote:
There are many part of bible has mentioned about jesus as prophet ,ihave mentioned many of them
And also about muhammed as prophet
Yes, I am aware of that my brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by lover of jesus
But, are you familiar with what scripture of the Koran they may be reading in order to justify the killing of innocent people?
They must be using something within the Koran or Hadeeth. Do you know what it might be? :confused:
(I do not judge them for killing. That is God's decision.)
Thank you :nod: